DS Forums

 
 

Outgoing O2 CEO says Britain will be left behind in 5G race


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20-09-2016, 12:47
Stereo Steve
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,373
Actually their 4G coverage far exceeds 3's.
I'd like to see some evidence of that and either way, even if that is true the problem is that 90% of the places without 3 4G will have 3 3G. 90% of the places without O2 4G will either be 2G only or will have non-working 3G900 which is pointless.
Stereo Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 20-09-2016, 17:44
clewsy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,860
Hmm but the BT FTTP install I have has a) a UPS attached to the fibre modem and b) the phone is still using the standard old system, it doesn't actually run through the fibre. So it seems like a non-issue.
Yeah but that makes it all pointless then as clearly the phone isn't an IP based system, which is what they want if they are going to make this a long term vision. Told the plan is to cut loads if the kit at the exchange and control it from central hubs ...for VM that will be somewhere near Manchester which they also rent space to Hauweli for their mobile operations ..yet no one knows what goes on in there.
clewsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 18:07
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
BT also have invested serious cash in the network, so why should they be forced to give away services on the cheap? It's the still regulations that hold back much of the investment as BT can't make a profitable return on some projects , by the time the regs have forced them to open it up to others.
If BT was so bothered about the already profitable rates that they get for use of Openreach infrastructure, why aren't they making the case to Ofcom to change that? Instead of telling us how great and futureproof copper is (it's not).

BT ought to shut up about freeloading or moaning about being the only big investor. They are the only firm doing it because they're the only firm that can do it. That's the downside of owning the monopoly.

I was talking to a Virgin Media engineer who works in the Cisco side of things near Manchester. Even he says BT have invested billions in a cracking network and some of it was installed and set up by them. Lol
Who set up what?

BT undoubtedly has a first rate core network, but it's the access network that sucks - and it always will, unless BT actually spends proper money on it.

However he did say the problem with fibre to the premises which people forget is in a power cut you have no phone line. That is apparently a problem that is industry wide and really slowing down the series roll out of any project.
Not an insurmountable problem, I mean, it's not as if there are loads of telcos out there who happily deploy battery backup units with ONTs.

Battery backup isn't a big deal for most people - when you've only got a cordless phone (or no landline phone at all) you don't need hours of backup, as you can't use it anyway. The elderly/infirm might have a case for their telehealth devices though - for which the telehealth firm could supply and maintain a UPS?

Hmm but the BT FTTP install I have has a) a UPS attached to the fibre modem and b) the phone is still using the standard old system, it doesn't actually run through the fibre. So it seems like a non-issue.
The long term plan would be to abandon the copper network and move it onto fibre, though, though an adequate battery backup would work fine. Not sure if BT's solution of AA (or AAA?) batteries really cuts it.

(are you sure it's on copper? IIRC FTTP installs can have a faceplate that goes onto the NTE5 and a switch to change between fibre/copper)
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 19:23
clewsy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,860
You keep making out like BT are the bad guy. Yes they have a network that they could invest more in, but then again why? Copper is fine for most really - I don't need more than 8meg and I'm sure really many home customers would be happy with 16meg constant being a max. Sure some people want more , but realistically if copper delivers that speed and even better can send tv down the line, then most would be happy.

Copper works but could be better with some of the new tech that exists to make it better. Fibre is good for business and heavy users but I'm not sure the general user really needs fibre capacity yet.
clewsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 20:04
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
You keep making out like BT are the bad guy. Yes they have a network that they could invest more in, but then again why? Copper is fine for most really - I don't need more than 8meg and I'm sure really many home customers would be happy with 16meg constant being a max. Sure some people want more , but realistically if copper delivers that speed and even better can send tv down the line, then most would be happy.
8 or 16Mbit isn't even enough to stream BT's own 4K TV service, let alone the needs of the future. BT also won't sell you normal IPTV unless you have Infinity with a good enough minimum speed.

Why should BT invest? Because they're the monopoly. Because almost every other ISP (and customers of) pay them to do it. Because they've had numerous taxpayer incentives.

And when you have to take years to build something, you should be planning for years in advance - not for what is realistically very slow today. 16Mbit is fast becoming the minimum - and even BT/gov admit this, hence the 10Mbps USO

Copper works but could be better with some of the new tech that exists to make it better. Fibre is good for business and heavy users but I'm not sure the general user really needs fibre capacity yet.
The "new tech" works by obsoleting what is already there and by reducing the length of the copper to almost nothing. That includes all those lovely VDSL green cabinets once FTTH/FTTdp are in place. If only they'd installed them 10 or 15 years ago when they were modern technology, and not in 2016, where they're obsolete from day one.

Most smaller businesses can't afford a leased line - they're horrendously expensive. If they can afford it, they can't afford the speeds they actually need.

The beauty of a decent access network is that it gives everyone what they want - from a TalkTalk cheapskate on a few meg to the business across the road that needs x00Mbit/s symmetric. It also reduces BT's costs. Instead of digging up the road every time a business wants a leased line, they can get it installed very easily.

Your post displays an amazing amount of shortsightedness. We need less of this.
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 20:59
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
You keep making out like BT are the bad guy. Yes they have a network that they could invest more in, but then again why? Copper is fine for most really - I don't need more than 8meg and I'm sure really many home customers would be happy with 16meg constant being a max. Sure some people want more , but realistically if copper delivers that speed and even better can send tv down the line, then most would be happy.

Copper works but could be better with some of the new tech that exists to make it better. Fibre is good for business and heavy users but I'm not sure the general user really needs fibre capacity yet.
On home broadband I think better speeds should be available really, if you're a household of 4 and mum wants to watch Netflix whilst the kids are streaming twitch and Youtube it's not enough.

We live in a 1080p world now, moving rapidly to 60FPS video streams and on to 2K, 4K. Whilst it may not matter as much for a single user on a mobile screen, but to have 6 or 8Mb/s a whole household, especially with IPTV is not great.

Copper is also not has good for gaming as the latency isn't as good as FTTC.

Another thing is what is the upload on copper?

I think there's no excuse really, BT has lagged behind with fibre and that has affected business, economy, and consumers, some of whom have really poor copper broadband speeds of 512k etc.
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 21:03
errea
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Not leaving the EU (quite yet)
Posts: 295
You have to love someone defending BT's lack of investment and love of ADSL

O2 was cash starved with a good customer base and network potential - a merger with 3 (with it's owner's deep pockets) would have been a marriage made in heaven.
errea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 21:04
Stereo Steve
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,373
We get about 2 meg here if we are lucky and need to pay for 2 lines. Put a couple kids on Youtube on their tablets and nothing else is possible. So I need a separate line just for essential and work stuff.

The demand is only going to go up as video resolution increases. We can barely watch a standard SD TV show. Never mind HD and certainly not UHD. If we want to watch HD, we download and watch tomorrow. Making sure we download overnight so we don't trash the internet in the evening. This is the reality and I think anything under FTTP will be as bad as what we have within 5 years.

Put it this way. I want to buy a season pass next year for Moto GP as BT Sport is so expensive and the season pass is decent value. But I'm concerned my ADSL (provided by BT) will not actually be up to it so I will waste my money. See how it works? They've got you by the nuts all the time. Kill them.
Stereo Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 21:53
clewsy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,860
You say demand is going up, but its not really PC demand that is increasing. It's the drive for mobile that is increasing, this doesn't use the same amounts of data that the user would have done on a desktop machine ( assuming they replaced them like they used to before mobile / tablet obsession).

Yea vod is on the increase but again it's not threatening ADSL broadband. If people watch Freeview and think that compressed picture is fine, I bet they think a 4meg picture off the net is near HD!

Let's face it the techy people will always want better and the latest, but it is a commercial world and it has to be paid for. You talk about BT having grants, yes for areas that are non commercial and everyone had the chance to bid, just most didn't think it was worthwhile. That isn't BTs fault.

Also change in regulations and the allowing of access to fibre despite previous guarantees on prices and returns, is hardly going to encourage BT to invest more. Yes they are a beast but actually look at all the detail and the actions of others flip flopping has really hurt potential incentives for BT investment.
clewsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2016, 22:29
mrMick
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 1,259
Reading the comments from O2's former boss is amusing, funny he says all that now he has left eh?

That said, i've seen nothing but improvements from O2 in my local area, with 4G readily available, and pretty decent coverage in general.

On the subject of BT FTTP, i've had this for nearly a year and the phone service can remain on copper if you prefer, but I actually have mine over the fibre. Openreach refer to it as Fibre Voice Access, BT Retail as Fibre Phone. Not sure it could be referred to in any way as VoIP, though..
mrMick is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:39.