That's just it though: a lot of people do think that, whether or not they're aware of it. (We all know Twitter ain't the sharpest crowd but I have even seen people claiming that Ellie "led Nick on" just by inviting him to the pub!)

Regarding whether this would be acceptable if Nick and Ellie's positions were reversed: No, I don't think it would. Nick would have every right to react the way she is now. But I doubt people would be so quick to imply that Ellie somehow had a right to have sex with him. Or that Nick's feelings couldn't be trusted / that he had deliberately changed his mind in order to get her in trouble when she thought she was just pulling a hot guy.

Although, on the subject of double standards/female sex offenders in soap: HOs revealed a while back that at the time Kim stalked Joe, she'd had sex with him when he was drunk (tricking him into thinking she was Lindsey.) That's pretty much rape, IMO, since he wasn't consenting to sex with her ... and it probably wouldn't have been treated so lightly had he been the one to do this to Kim

I think that would be wrong as well, I think Emmerdale did a similar storyline where Sally had sex with Ashley when he was sedated.

It is very difficult to take moralistic lectures from a programme that

a) Operates double standards

b) Treats sex so lightly and casually anyway.

no one was lying.. she couldn't remember much therefore he must have raped her as she was too drunk to consent.

I don't know where the idea comes from that Ellie is falsely accusing Nick of rape or ruining his reputation. So far, she's only told one person her version of events: Lisa, who advised her to write it off as a regrettable one-night stand. According to the interviews about the storyline, Ellie won't go to the police for some time if she does at all. She's not even saying she was raped; just that she doesn't remember giving consent (i.e. she's uncertain, she may or may not have, she doesn't know.) She isn't Jacqui McQueen running around in the streets yelling "'E RAPED MEH!"

I like Ellie, too, but I don't like this story. I think one of the interviews said they didn't want to do the story as a rape. If it's about consent between two drunk people, I don't know where it can go.

The message should be: Don't put yourself in harm's way. Don't drink so much that you don't know what you are doing and then kvetch about what happens.

Just watching last night's E4 showing. Joe's total ignorance over Mercedes' character. Tegan in the cafe after she whining over not being able to get a boyfriend. Maybe guys don't go for the Bride Of Frankenstein meets Hattie Jacques look. Very unflattering.

While I agree that it's fantastic that Hollyoaks are highlighting such a sensitive topic, the storyline does lose some of its effect when you've characters like Eva and Liam who had sex within ten minutes of meeting one another or Nathan and Lisa who've moved in together after a couple or weeks or Joe and Joanne whose relationship started with a one night stand. Has nobody heard of dating in Chester? I'm either getting too old for this show or else I'm turning into Mary Whitehouse!

Well, given that the alternative is bunny boiler Joanne, it's no surprise Mercy looks good to him

I wish the show wouldn't keep putting Tegan in love triangles with the currently popular "hot" guy and a woman who no one in their right mind would reject in favour of Tegan (Tegan/Ziggy/Leela; Tegan/Jesse/Celine; now Tegan/Nick/Holly.) This has nothing to do with Tegan's weight and everything to do with her horrible attitude and dressing like a scarecrow ...


They said in one of the interviews about the storyline that part of the reason for its being ambiguous was that Ellie is easily upset, whereas if Lisa were in the same situation she would just shrug it off as a drunken hook-up. That's just it though, Ellie has previously been shown to be fine with casual sex - she and Freddie hooked up pretty quickly and iirc she had a one-night stand with someone shortly after arriving?

This doesn't mean she has no right to say no, or that men can expect automatic consent from her, or that she is/should be always up for sex. It does bring into question the argument "This is just Ellie's personal reaction, which is why it's a grey area - Lisa would have been fine with it!" When they have previously been shown to have the same attitude to casual sex

Yep, I have to keep telling myself that the show isn't really in my age demographic and not to be so 'moral'.

Finding one female character who hasn't got some horrible flaw and a male with issues of his own who can't see past those of the opposite sex stuns me.

If you were close enough to see someone you were close to about to make a horrible mistake as they so often do, you'd tell them. Who would go to a McQueen wedding not to wait for the inevitable disaster.

She tried to get up and away from him at one point and couldn't even get up. She was also basically falling asleep and not making sense and he started kissing her neck. She couldn't consent at that point. He was drunk but not as drunk as she was. He was still in his senses and could have stopped this and seen how out of it she was and it's kind of obvious that after he started kissing her that she could barely stay awake or consent.

Yes they were both drunk but that was not a one night stand. A one night stand isn't sleeping with a woman who's barely conscious which Eliie was towards the end of the scene. The show doesn't have to shove it in your face or say it for you to see that she was falling asleep towards the end and could barely string together a sentence or get up never mind give content.

It's not just "drunken sex" if you sleep with someone who's so drunk that they probably can't even remember their name or keep their eyes open never mind give consent. If the person is so out of it that they can't even say yes or no or stop at any point or respond to what the other person is doing and show they're OK with this and want this, are you seriously telling me that's consent and OK and "drunken sex?"

Just because she kissed him before doesn't mean that what happened afterwards was ok

I'm not saying that at all but I do think there is grey area in this story and that what happened is open to interpretation. Ellie was legless and not in her right mind to give consent but I disagree that Nick was in his senses, just because Ellie's appeared worse. He drank a skinful and was stumbling around himself - not that this is ANY excuse if he proceeded to take her clothes of while knocked out. I think it's completely fair for others to say it wasn't a one night stand but i can't call it rape based on what we saw either. Just my opinion. Whether the show doesn't need to spell it out of not, the fact remains that the scene was cut before we could see whether she did fall asleep or not and since she has no memory, she doesn't know if she consented so how am I supposed to? I'm not trying to take away anything from Ellie or victims like her. I just think based on what we saw, the story can only go one of two ways. However like I said, I do think that's what will be revealed in the end. It's clear which narrative the writers are going in. It will turn out that ellie was indeed raped and when I reach that analysis as a viewer, I'll be the first to say it. Until then...

I hope Freddie reports Ellie for assaulting him.

I think it fails to educate by being so one sided - most people watching it can see how the show is interpreting the situation and most decent people would think to themselves that if someone was in that state they would show them the respect they deserve. Had the show offered a more balanced view on the matter it would have given people more to think about and about what consent really means.

The show has clearly gone with the view that the woman did not give consent rather than it being an incident where at the time it appeared to be mutually concensual, but asking the question whether either party were really in a fit state to give such consent. I think it would have worked far better if the question had been asked of both sides too, with Nick not really remembering what happened either but looking back on the night from a different angle of perhaps regretting it, but accepting it as a drunken mistake.

I find the moralising of this show a little harder to swallow when so many characters have had casual drunken sex with each other many not remembering what had happened. This means that the scenario of non consensual sex or rape to put it bluntly could have happened no end of times over the years and yet the show presents it often as something comical and to laugh off.

THIS, OH SO MUCH THIS!

Everytime someone trips in Hollyaoks, a penis penetrates a vagina.
Next thing you know they start a story-line educating about the importance of contraception but with 20 pregnant female characters around who don't know the father of their unborn child.

I'm sorry if it is not pc enough but agree with Lisa, Ellie should just get over it.
She got drunk (on purpose) threw herself at a complete stranger, making out with him (without his consent) got him completely hammered too (on purpose) took him to her bedroom and then the next morning she is all like "Oh no we had Sex! How in the hell ever did that happen?".
She created a complete messy scenario and behaved as irresponsibly as she could with no thought at her own safety and then she complained that something happened she might or might not have wanted to happen.
Nick was drunk himself and Ellie encouraged him to drink even more while taking him to her bed, her entire behavior screamed she was up for it.
It's not like Nick was sober and took advantage of her or he was the one intoxicating her to get her into a more willing state.
That's not what happened.
What happened was two people too drunk to know what they were doing and the lesson here should be DRINK RESPONSIBLY and not pinpointing who is to blame (we all know the man and only the man is to blame anyway).


Amen!

More evidence of just how needed storylines like this are.

Just get over it. Its her own fault. Talk about victim blaming.

Believe it or not most do actually know non consensual is wrong. We all know where this story is going and who is to blame it is as subtle as a sledgehammer particularly with all the publicity surrounding it.

What many of us find galling is the hypocrisy and double standards exhibited by this show in general and how ridiculous it is preaching to us when in the very near future we just know there will be story lines of characters getting drunk and regretting their one night stands and flings (even forgetting what they did or with who). Basically the programme is trivialising sexual encounters even using them as comedy in a "Carry On Bonking" kind of way. Where is the message "do your best to steer clear of danger"?

Then we get messages like

Women slapping men ok, men slapping women not ok (no slapping is ok, ok?)
Women groping, letching and molesting men ok, men groping and molesting women, or other men, not ok.
Women stealing men's clothes making them run around naked ok, imagine the opposite.
Using drugs is bad folks, except when one of our main actors does it then meh!

Now this is a drama and bad behaviour is needed from time to time to facilitate the plot but please don't insult our intelligence and ditch the hypocrisy.

Hardly victim blaming when there is no victim to begin with.

How can anyone in their right mind not see that Ellie is just as much responsible for everything that happened as Nick is (if not more so as she dragged him into the whole situation in the first place).
She has to share part of the responsibility even though she is a woman.
I know what a shocking and novel approach.

If anything this story line is needed for hysterical people like yourself.

This comment was aimed at the programme makers not soap-lea. I read it back and that was not clear, sorry.

No...

Ellie did not force Nick to have sex with her, while she was clearly unable to consent. He chose to do that himself.

I am not hysterical

There is no need to resort towards personal attacks.

Where did she say to him I am taking you back to mine for sex? She didn't drag him into anything.

She also never consented to having sex, he just helped himself with no thought towards whether she wanted to or not and had no concern over the state she was in. The responsibility for Nicks actions lie with him only.

Men should not just assume that sex is a given in those circumstances or in fact in any circumstance.

Guys are always looked at the one who commits the rape in these cases, there was an image of a poster going round that was put up at a university a while ago that made out the guy to be the rapist when it could of easily been the girl.
85 said
Jake and Josie were drunk, Jake and Josie hooked up, Josie could not consent, the next day Jake was charged with rape.
23@@ how does that work, if Josie could not consent because she was drunk then how could Jake consent so surely Josie could of raped Jake.
I'm sorry but being a guy means in these situations we are always going to be the one to blame and I think hollyoaks need to show that that it's not always the case rather than just showing the fact that it's the guy that's the bad guy.

Whether we agree with the law as it stands or not the best the programme can hope for is to state what the law is so that people are aware.

There seems to be a thing on student campuses at the moment of making students aware. Given we have a bunch of freshers they maybe could have dedicated an episode to them attending a student talk with perhaps some random speakers explaining their case histories with flashback scenes. To round it off they could have the students at a party later with some finding themselves in that scenario and then remembering the talk and stopping in time.

Not ideal and somewhat preaching but better, I feel, than dragging the drama on for weeks and raking up the same old arguments. To attempt to stop people falling foul of the law the message needs to be punchy and relevant for now rather than concluded after the party season when it will be all too late for many.

Still think the programme will be hypocritical with future SLs mind you.

With Ched Evans' acquittal I wonder how, if at all, it will colour this story line and people's opinions on it.