I just read that. According to him she was no drunker than him or the other man. The judge said drunken consent is still consent. Ellie was not forced on the bed. According to what I read the jury were asked questions like did the defendant believe she gave consent. In the HO story he was drunk too.

If he was sober then he probably ,if he was a moral person would not have proceeded. Everything is different when you are drunk. Ched Evans has spent years in jail. It is so difficult in these situations unless there are witnesses or date rape drugs have been used. I have said before that girls have to take equal responsibility for putting themselves in that situation.

I don't think they'll be able to waffle around making things "grey areas" and generating a debate. I think they'll have to make it extremely blatant now or it is going to look even messier than it originally might.

Iv not seen all of the coverage from the second trial but I saw in GD that she had asked him to give her oral sex and had said things like **** me harder.

Ellie was unconscious

I agree. Everyone keeps harping on that Ellie didn't give verbal consent, therefore Nick had no right. Fair enough. Though Nick didn't give consent either. Does that mean Ellie raped him because he was also too drunk to consent....? It just seems that there is a big assumption that Nick wasn't drunk enough and should have known better. Bollocks! He was getting sloshed with her until early hours in the morning and stumbling all over the place. I'm not saying that he wasn't conscious of his actions or that he didnt force himself on a unconcious Ellie but it's s big IF at this stage and I feel that based on what we saw, it's too soon to throw Nick under a bus. We didn't see Ellie fall asleep and the actress herself said that HO deliberately rewrote the script. Originally we were meant to see her fall asleep but they wanted to keep it ambiguous so left it while they were BOTH intoxicated. Likewise the actress said she spoke to the writer and felt Ellie should have said no but the writer said no, explaining that if they did that they would be telling a different kind of story.

They'll probably think as they always have/do: that women "ask for it", or change their minds later, or lie to hide their cheating from their boyfriend, or just outright lie for the fun of it and then innocent men get sent to jail. Real rape is only committed by strangers and/or blatantly abusive men; if a woman got drunk, she "led the guy on" and the only person in the wrong is her

Some of the responses on this thread are absolutely appaulling.

OP, men are responsible for the vast, vast majority of sexual assaults, rapes and molestation both on women and on other men. I did a quick check, and it looks like women make up about 4% of sexual offenders and about 12% of child sex-abusers. In the UK, about 7 times as many women are raped than men.Therefore, I'd imagine that has a lot to do with the fact that soaps use male characters as the predators and female characters as the victims. It is a reflection of reality.

Don't forget this figure: 1 in 4 women have been victim of sexual assualt / rape (1/5 in the UK). 1 in 4. That's 25% of the global female population.

Why are you more angry about the fact that a male character is the predator than grateful that a soap is rightly highlighting that this is an extremely serious issue that effects so many women? Do you just not care?

Here's some more stats for you:
In the UK, conviction rates for rape are at 5.7%. Obviously there are cases where a person is rightly found innocent but do you really believe 94% of people who report rape are lying?
About a third of people believe women are partially responsible if they have flirted with the perpetrator.
Only about 15% of those who have been victims of sexual assault come forward - Perhaps you should read back this thread if you would like to understand some reasons why that might be.

I cannot fathom what on earth it is that makes you feel hard-done-by by this storyline. It is not a competition between the sexes. You should feel angry for women and men who have had to endure these horrific ordeals and not contribute to their misery by being complicit in victim-blaming and shaming.

BIB. The statistics are horrifying. Of the 15% who come forward and report the assault, what percentage even make it past the CPS to get to trial? And is the 5.7% conviction rate applicable just to the small number which actually make it as far as a trial?

My views on the HO storyline haven't changed in view of the Ched Evans verdict. I'm just saddened and appalled that 'justice' can be bought by anyone with the funds to procure witnesses, and that the judge has turned the clock back forty years by deeming it legitimate to focus on the victim's sexual history.

I think disgusting is that the man is always guilty and the woman is always the victim.

"Oh so the court decided you're innocent? NO, you're guilty! Cause I as a bystander with no inside whatsoever into the case know so. You're a man, that's all the proof I need."

People who are clutching their pearls thinking they're so political correct and progressive are nothing more than a lynch mob grabbing their pitchforks and torches really.

I agree the Evans case is heavily politically charged, and I STRONGLY agree that a victim's sexual history should not be admitted as evidence (including that of a male victim - it is just as loaded with assumptions, given the image that many people have of gay men being promiscuous, perverted, fetishists, etc.) I don't think it has much bearing on the storyline, though. Nick is just an ordinary guy without Evans's money and notoriety behind him. Ellie hasn't been to the police, we don't know if she ever will, nor has she really accused him of anything - she simply told Lisa she didn't remember giving consent.

I don't wonder if they haven't left this story line hanging knowing that the Ched Evans retrial was coming up and that the verdict and trial details might have some impact and colour public perceptions.

It struck me as strange that the message and any related storyline wasn't delivered in advance of real life students going off to uni and freshers' week when they would be perhaps most vulnerable. The people it was most aimed at would be most likely out on the lash when the relevant episodes were actually aired.

Wouldn't surprise me if they left this open to reshoot some scenes if necessary.

Interestingly being drunk and incapable is an offence. If the police had got hold of Ellie and Nick whilst they were on the streets they'd likely have been thrown in the cells to dry out. Do we see any message saying people shouldn't be getting that smashed in public in the first place? Some strong prevention messages might protect more people in the long run from various harms.

Anti-drinking campaigns aimed at young people seem to be very strongly gendered. They'll usually do separate ads targeted at male vs female drinkers. While this makes sense (because men's and women's bodies process alcohol differently), it's often presented as if there's X set of risks for one and Y set of risks for the other, and no overlap. I.e:

Drunk women - at risk of sexual assault, unplanned pregnancy, or (gasp!) looking unladylike / unattractive

Drunk men - at risk of getting beaten up, injured in some kind of drink-related accident, or committing a crime and being arrested

They never seem to show for instance a girl being thrown in the cells for drunk and disorderly; or a guy being more at risk of sexual assault (or getting into a situation where no one's quite sure what happened and he faces charges being pressed against him.) Perhaps they should?

I disagree. In the vast majority of incidences the perpetrator is found not guilty as it can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt and the person making the accusations is branded a liar .You just have to see the reaction of many people to the Ched Evans case. Of huge number of people supported him and were very hostile towards the accuser even after the guilty verdict was given, despite having no idea what happened in that room. In fact
your description of lynch mob grabbing their pitchforks and torches perfectly describes the league of Ched Evans sycophants who harassed and intimidated the woman who accused him of rape.

Huh?

What reality is this? Quite often, the woman is called a liar, a manipulator, a slut, a gold digger, etc. Just look on the Showbiz board. When a famous guy is accused of doing something bad to his wife/kids, the blame always lands on the wife. Johnny Depp may have abused Amber Heard? She's a lying manipulator, who can't be trusted. His past with violence and the video evidence mean absolutely nothing. She manipulated everything. Brad Pitt may have bee abusive towards his kids? Angelina is a manipulative woman, who can't be trusted.

Rape accusations are often treated no differently. Look at how many it took to finally take Cosby down and only then, after a male comedian brought them up again.

As for pitchforks and torches, have you seen the backlash the woman in the Ched Evans case is receiving? I've seen rape threats and murder threads, because she's a "lying whore c*nt". Even Jessica Ennis has received them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cuvev_ZXEAA7MOj.jpg:large

Vile.

You're right they shouldn't be so gender specific. Anyone incapable can easily get mugged, run over in the street, fall over things or into them (bridges and rivers for example). Drunken people or either sex (or neither to be PC) are capable of violence and being offensive (men and women have been convicted of urinating on memorials etc).

No responsible bar staff should have served Ellie or Nick with the state they were in, they would have drawn the attention of the police had they been noticed in the street, they were both incapable.

The message would seem to be that you can get charged for things when you are in an incapable state and drunkenness is no defence. Maybe that is what the message should be don't get that drunk and everyone take some responsibility.

I don't think how much it takes men and women to get drunk is a relevant point as drunk is drunk you either are or you aren't and people know their own limits (or should)

Isn't it the case that actually males are more likely to get into strife (of any kind) through being drunk than women?

So this issue has been raised again between Ellie and nick in tonight's ch4 episode.

Poor Ellie ☹️

The interesting thing was the voiceover whilst Ellie was working in the bar and cleo talking to Lisa and then that's exactly what Nick tried to do to Ellie.

His justification is beyond disgusting

Tabby said that Ellie was fragile