55" OLED 4k vs 65" LED

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nigelb1972

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by GDK:
“Granted I don't know the numbers (but if they are only rumours then I assume you don't either), but if you're right (meaning the numbers are extreme) LG's shareholders should sell immediately and cut their losses. LG should have already gone bust. That they haven't suggests to me that your assertion (and without numbers it's just an assertion, an opinion) is incorrect.

Not every new tech that companies introduce succeeds of course, many fail, but you seem to be overly pessimistic.

At the end of the day if a consumer gets a TV that has lasts 10 years, that's pretty good. Of course, in that sort of timescale, others will bring to market newer, better, cheaper technologies, but it doesn't make the original choice of the consumer wrong.

People have been enjoying their plasma TVs for many years while others put up with LCD, even though plasma is now an obsolete technology that's no longer available. When the time comes to replace they will choose from what's available then.

LG's development costs is a risk that (might) only affect the future of LG itself. Not so much the consumer.

It's not comparable to, say, Betamax or Minidisc or SACD or DVD Audio where you might have built up a collection of recordings that can't be replaced and nothing to play them on.”

I loved my Minidisc player

mossy2103

29-09-2016

The Panasonic OLED:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1387...l-be-a-stunner

GDK

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“The Panasonic OLED:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1387...l-be-a-stunner”

That's really good news.

All we need now is for Sony to do it too.

Night Crawler

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by GDK:
“I'm glad that you're pleased with it.

Have you tried to update the firmware of your TV yet? There might have been an update released since your TV was manufactured.

After trying ARC I set mine up in the end with optical out rather than ARC. In my case, the TV is the audio source for my Denon AV amp when watching Netflix/Amazon Prime Video and DTV (in fact anything that originates from the TV).

The issue with trying to use ARC is that the TV doesn't passthru the high end audio formats now commonly found on Blu ray discs for externally connected devices. It does not passthru anything beyond Dolby Digital 5.1. No DTS-HD Master, no Dolby TrueHD for example. So, no possibility of using the TV itself as the device that switches between sources and passes thru the audio to my amp.

Also, my Denon amp, athough it passes thru UHD video, isn't recognised as HDR capable by my Panasonic BD900 UHD blu ray player. I had to connect that directly to the TV. Fortunately Panasonic had the foresight to give the BD900 a second HDMI output for audio to cater for this issue. It's one reason why I chose the BD900 over the (less expensive) Samsung UBD K8500.

Finally, if I enable ARC it overrides the audio from the BD900, meaning it's limited to DD5.1 again. (Hmm. Thinking about it again, I may well have another go with ARC. With the BD900 as another audio source for the amp, I should be able to make that work and still use ARC when needed.)

Phew! A long explanation. Basically to be able to make use of ARC I'd need an amp that can passthru 4K with HDR. My Denon AVX4000 is a fairly recent model, so it supports 4K, but not with HDR - or at least the Panasonic BD900 doesn't recognise it as HDR capable.

One day I'd like to get a Dolby Atmos system (now on some UHD Blu ray discs) but that would really blow the budget. My current amp isn't old enough to justify replacing it yet and the major expense would come from having to get new speakers as well.”

I've recently upgraded my sound system to Dolby Atmos (also has HDMI 2.0a/HDR support) as I'm not quite ready to take the 4k plunge, I'm waiting for 4k projection to come down in price.

I went for a 5.1.4 setup, utilising the onboard amplification rather than keeping my 7.1 setup and having to purchase a separate 2 channel amplifier. I demoed both types of Atmos speakers, those that can sit on existing speakers and ceiling speakers, I decided on ceiling speakers as I found they gave better definition for the overhead effects.

Very impressed with Atmos, switching between True HD and Atmos you can really hear the difference. My amp can recreate Atmos for non Atmos soundtracks ie. stereo, DD5.1, DTS etc, but I'm not keen on it myself, I prefer to keep everything in its original state. I'm sure you won't be disappointed when you get around to upgrading.

crofter

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“LG have got to try and recover at least some of the billions spent on development (so prices are likely to remain high), but as for other manufacturers a number are supposedly releasing OLED sets (including Sony and Panasonic) - using panels purchased from LG.

But as LG will be setting the price for the panels, then it won't really help prices to fall.”

Nigel LG haven't spent billions on development of OLED, they have spent billions building new fabs to produce them - I think they have a new one coming online some time next year which should make OLED a lot more mainstream as they can then truly mass produce them ... so prices will continue to drop.

crofter

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by roddydogs:
“What about getting a 65" Hisence for £900 + 6 yr gtee from RS, as a "stop gap" until OLED comes down in price (or something better comes along) Anyone?”

You could do a hell of a lot worse - but personally I would be looking at the M7000 which is another £300 as the absolute minimum I would look at ...

Far too much happening with regard to 4K - higher NITS, WCG, HDR and higher frame rates to be shelling out much more at this particular time imho as you can guarantee what you buy now will be old hat within 18 months.

Nigel Goodwin

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by crofter:
“Nigel LG haven't spent billions on development of OLED, they have spent billions building new fabs to produce them - I think they have a new one coming online some time next year which should make OLED a lot more mainstream as they can then truly mass produce them ... so prices will continue to drop.”

I beg to differ, they spent billions on development - they probably also spent huge sums on fabrication plants as well, and increasing production 'may' allow them to drop prices slightly - but it makes more sense to use the increased the manufacturing profit to try and recoup some of the R&D costs.

crofter

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“I beg to differ, they spent billions on development - they probably also spent huge sums on fabrication plants as well, and increasing production 'may' allow them to drop prices slightly - but it makes more sense to use the increased the manufacturing profit to try and recoup some of the R&D costs.”

OK so you say LG have spent billions (without any proof) - how much have Samsung, Sony and Panasonic spent on OLED research then??

Nigel Goodwin

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by crofter:
“OK so you say LG have spent billions (without any proof) - how much have Samsung, Sony and Panasonic spent on OLED research then??”

I can't remember the figures quoted in the trade press, but they were all MASSIVE sums, hence everyone 'giving up' as it wasn't cost effective.

I do wonder if perhaps Panasonic contributed towards LG's continued research?, leading to them getting LG panels in their own sets first (after LG obviously) - or perhaps Panasonic are just more 'forward thinking' than others?.

jonmorris

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by gds1972:
“Unless you need to change your TV now you could always wait until January when CES takes place and most manufacturers announce new models and you will probably find the prices of this year's models will also drop then.”

Generally the CES announcements go on sale around May, so don't expect price cuts before April or even May.

I'd recommend looking at the stuff coming from HiSense. John Lewis sell them online, but sadly not in store to look at. The ULED (not OLED I must stress) HDR sets are £799 for 55 inch and £1199 (I think) for 65 inch.

OLED is arguably the future, but I'd be inclined to wait a bit.

technoflare

29-09-2016

Still can't get Netflix to work in 5.1 on my Amp (pioneer vsx924). Tried optical and ARC and I do get sound but only stereo. Auto set on TV audio out settings.....latest software on both....

Night Crawler

29-09-2016

Originally Posted by technoflare:
“Still can't get Netflix to work in 5.1 on my Amp (pioneer vsx924). Tried optical and ARC and I do get sound but only stereo. Auto set on TV audio out settings.....latest software on both....”

A family member had the same problem but with an LG LCD TV, they got 5.1 to work by enabling Simplink, worth a try.

d'@ve

30-09-2016

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“I do wonder if perhaps Panasonic contributed towards LG's continued research?, leading to them getting LG panels in their own sets first (after LG obviously) - or perhaps Panasonic are just more 'forward thinking' than others?.”

That's what the buyers of Sony DSLR sensors do, get them for their own products 6 months after Sony get them for theirs, IIRC. This gives your Nikons, Pentaxes etc. time to develop their own firmware (modify Sony's) and the tailored results sometimes improve on what Sony did. I'd imagine that much the same will happen when other TV manufacturers buy in LG panels and of course, as you suggest, if there is technical collaboration, that might allow earlier access than otherwise.

GDK

30-09-2016

Just confirming that in my setup I do get DD5.1 from Netflix on the LG TV. I switched the TV output to PCM to test and it dropped to stereo.

Assuming the TV is set correctly, there must be a problem in the TV recognising that the amp is capable of DD5.1

Have you tested the amp's input with any other DD5.1 sources? A DVD player maybe?

Have you got another optical input on the amp you can try connecting the TV to?

Have you got another amp you can test the TV's output with?

I also had another brief play with ARC and still couldn't get it to work. The problem is that there's no option to set the TV HDMI output connection as an input source. That means to use ARC it has to be automatically controlled via Simplink CEC from the TV and that means the TV overrides other audio sources that you may actually want to use.

I Googled around and found out that this is a known issue on Denon AV amps of that age (from around 2013). My Denon AVR X4000 is one of the models affected. They fixed it for slightly later models onwards by offering ARC/HDMI TV Output as a source.

The workaround is to connect the TV's optical output to a spare optical input on the amp, which is what I already had set.

technoflare

01-10-2016

Originally Posted by Night Crawler:
“A family member had the same problem but with an LG LCD TV, they got 5.1 to work by enabling Simplink, worth a try.”

Thanks, tried that and although it didn't initially seem to work with a couple of things I played last night I watched Special Correspondents and got 5.1 and it is now working on ARC! Just need to turn off HDMI control on my PS4 and others to stop the TV starting it up every time I go to HDMI input!

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