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*SPOILER* Thread Week 2 - Please not discuss results elsewhere pre results show.
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aggs
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Bluebird69:
“For these very reasons, I'm surprised there is anything contentious at all about the decision.

Melvin was pretty rubbish, and not even in an Ed Balls "at least he's giving it his best shot, and it's entertaining" kind of way. If Anastacia hadn't been injured, nobody would have questioned the decision to eliminate Melvyn. He was the worse dancer of the two.

Completely fair and correct decision imo.”

In the Big Book of Strictly Wuz Robbed the one bottom of the actual and combined leaderboard going home wouldn't even make a footnote.
Fudd
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“You can't do that. How do you even tally the public vote in that case? People voted for the dances they saw this week and last. What if next week they want to vote for someone else? What if their favourite has a nightmare next week but their votes from this week inadvertently help that person stay out of the dance off over their favourite? People based upon where people were in the leaderboard yesterday, carrying the votes over would cause more ruckus than anything.

Nope, that would be FAR too big a can of worms to open.

The show did the only thing it could - throw it back to the points. When the points are tied then it's public vote that wins anyway. Tbh that's how it should work if the judges can't decide.

Melvin was the least popular his total points were a long way below Anastacia - if he'd been against Naga, Ed or Lesley he might have stood a chance but he was never staying against her.”

They opened it in series six by doing exactly the same thing - and offered the public the opportunity to apply for a refund should they wish to do so. In my mind they should have done the same thing this time around.

Of course, if they just ditched the Dance Off for good they wouldn't have this issue at all. As it is, they have a process in place where the bottom two get a chance to save themselves if need be yet one couple was denied that chance.

This is going to really annoy people (more than I am already), so I'll put it in spoilers. You have been warned:
Spoiler
I wouldn't be surprised if they seized the opportunity to be controversial to get people, even those who look for the spoiler, to tune into the results show - especially as it has a 30 minute clash with The X Factor tonight. If they just sent everyone through then the interest wouldn't be there in the same way.
Pashulty
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“Odd that Melvin & Janette are clearly top of the least favourite poll, with Naga & Pasha behind them in votes for second least favourite.

So there does seem to be a disproportionate amount of angst over Melvin leaving, when had this been a been no dance off series, he is the least popular on combined votes regardless.”

I think its more a case of perceived injustice ie Melvin denied a dance off rather than people wanting him to stay in ... if you know what I mean .. our sense of fair play etc etc ...
Fudd
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Bluebird69:
“For these very reasons, I'm surprised there is anything contentious at all about the decision.

Melvin was pretty rubbish, and not even in an Ed Balls "at least he's giving it his best shot, and it's entertaining" kind of way. If Anastacia hadn't been injured, nobody would have questioned the decision to eliminate Melvyn. He was the worse dancer of the two.

Completely fair and correct decision imo.”

No, because both would have had the opportunity to dance, resulting in the possibility that Anastacia could have made an error which would have put her place in jepoardy and saved Melvin. If there had been a Dance Off, Melvin would have had a chance to save himself and it would have gone to the Judges Vote. As it is he wasn't given that opportunity.

I'm with those who would like to see the Dance Off scrapped. But whilst it's there everyone should be given the opportunity to save themselves if they fall in the bottom two - not include it one week and remove it the next.
Bluebird69
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by aggs:
“In the Big Book of Strictly Wuz Robbed the one bottom of the actual and combined leaderboard going home wouldn't even make a footnote.”

Maybe people are unhappy because they wuz robbed of being robbed?
cwickham
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“They opened it in series six by doing exactly the same thing - and offered the public the opportunity to apply for a refund should they wish to do so. In my mind they should have done the same thing this time around.

Of course, if they just ditched the Dance Off for good they wouldn't have this issue at all. As it is, they have a process in place where the bottom two get a chance to save themselves if need be yet one couple was denied that chance.

This is going to really annoy people (more than I am already), so I'll put it in spoilers. You have been warned:
Spoiler
I wouldn't be surprised if they seized the opportunity to be controversial to get people, even those who look for the spoiler, to tune into the results show - especially as it has a 30 minute clash with The X Factor tonight. If they just sent everyone through then the interest wouldn't be there in the same way.
”

What actually happened was arguably unfair on Melvin. What you are proposing would definitely be unfair on all fifteen couples, would have been a nightmare to execute and would have caused more problems later on.
Bluebird69
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“No, because both would have had the opportunity to dance, resulting in the possibility that Anastacia could have made an error which would have put her place in jepoardy and saved Melvin. If there had been a Dance Off, Melvin would have had a chance to save himself and it would have gone to the Judges Vote. As it is he wasn't given that opportunity.

I'm with those who would like to see the Dance Off scrapped. But whilst it's there everyone should be given the opportunity to save themselves if they fall in the bottom two - not include it one week and remove it the next.”

Shoulda Woulda Coulda - c'mon, he was awful and wasn't going to miraculously improve between the first performance and the dance off - if there had been one

I wonder what the complaints would have been if Melvyn had been saved over Anastacia, with or without a dance off?
musicangel
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by aggs:
“I think musicangel fell foul of posting shorthand - she put 'just read up' as in I've just read up ... and it was read as an instruction to another poster to, in effect, go and read up.

Too many reads and reds ”


Thank you!!! The only way I could have explained it was have gone I went to #reed up on what Brendan wrote
Fudd
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by cwickham:
“What actually happened was arguably unfair on Melvin. What you are proposing would definitely be unfair on all fifteen couples, would have been a nightmare to execute and would have caused more problems later on.”

How??? People are acting as though they have never carried the Judges points and votes across two weeks when they didn't want to... and yet they have.

If people don't want their vote to count then the BBC can set up a refund option to get their money back and an option on the website to do similar and 'withdraw' the votes.

I'm not sure how it would be unfair on all fifteen couples. If you cannot connect with the public and are not good enough to be high enough on the leaderboard after three weeks then so be it. At least the process will be followed to the end with a Dance Off instead of changing the elimination rules at the last moment.

Originally Posted by Bluebird69:
“Shoulda Woulda Coulda - c'mon, he was awful and wasn't going to miraculously improve between the first performance and the dance off - if there had been one

I wonder what the complaints would have been if Melvyn had been saved over Anastacia, with or without a dance off? ”

I said first of all Anastacia should have gone if she couldn't perform - but then realised that was unfair as well as not following previous protocol with injuries.
londongirlGre
02-10-2016
I wouldn't have minded if Melvin had gone home through the usual way but he didn't. That's my problem with the situation. Unlike many other celebrities, he didn't get a chance to fight for his place which I think is unfair. I don't think that it would have been a big deal for them to hold back on eliminating someone, this week. They could have just done a double elimination next week. I would feel this way if it was any of the celebrities.

People are calling Melvin, 'crap' but he is a complete novice. If he had stayed in the competition longer, he might have got better. Not every one is good straight away. Maybe he even needed a better teacher.
Cheryl423
02-10-2016
Knowing the facts, in my view what should have happened is that Anastacia should not have danced with her injury. Anyone, in fact, who sustains an injury during training that renders them unable to complete the choreography as intended, should not dance it on the night (nor a quickly amended version). I know there's this whole, the show must go on, but honestly, the show has medical advisers and their advice should be heeded. It's an entertainment show, not something to risk your health over. That's not entertaining and I didn't enjoy watching Anastacia trying to get through the routine. I didn't think it was brave, or sensible, it just looked awkard and, well, painful.
aggs
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by londongirlGre:
“I wouldn't have minded if Melvin had gone home through the usual way but he didn't. That's my problem with the situation. Unlike many other celebrities, he didn't get a chance to fight for his place which I think is unfair. I don't think that it would have been a big deal for them to hold back on eliminating someone, this week. They could have just done a double elimination next week. I would feel this way if it was any of the celebrities.”

But, for arguements sake , Anastasia takes a bye next week - she still isn't eligible for elimination and it gets even messier.
cwickham
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“How??? People are acting as though they have never carried the Judges points and votes across two weeks when they didn't want to... and yet they have.

If people don't want their vote to count then the BBC can set up a refund option to get their money back and an option on the website to do similar and 'withdraw' the votes.

I'm not sure how it would be unfair on all fifteen couples. If you cannot connect with the public and are not good enough to be high enough on the leaderboard after three weeks then so be it. At least the process will be followed to the end with a Dance Off instead of changing the elimination rules at the last moment.”

Week three was meant to be a clean slate - now the other contestants discover that their leaderboard position will be determined by their scores in weeks 1 and 2? How is that fair on them? And that doesn't even get into the problems skipping an elimination would cause down the line. Your suggestion would be ludicrously complicated and unnecessary when the simplest, fairest solution (albeit not one that would make everyone happy) was to go back to the public vote.
Heather_Hoggatt
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by amelia_lee:
“I agree with you.

Did Melvin actually do his dance off dance?”

No he didn't, they literally wentt off the least public votes
cwickham
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by londongirlGre:
“They could have just done a double elimination next week.”

How would a double elimination work? If they automatically eliminate both of the bottom two - surely that's just as unfair on both of them as it was on Melvin, not getting the chance of the dance-off? If they have all of the bottom three couples in the dance-off and save one of them - surely that's just as unfair on the couple third from bottom, who now have to dance again even though they wouldn't have previously, as well as being unfair on at least one of the two couples eliminated?
londongirlGre
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by aggs:
“But, for arguements sake , Anastasia takes a bye next week - she still isn't eligible for elimination and it gets even messier.”

That is so going to happen.
londongirlGre
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by cwickham:
“How would a double elimination work? If they automatically eliminate both of the bottom two - surely that's just as unfair on both of them as it was on Melvin, not getting the chance of the dance-off? If they have all of the bottom three couples in the dance-off and save one of them - surely that's just as unfair on the couple third from bottom, who now have to dance again even though they wouldn't have previously?”

No, not like that. They could add the phone votes from this week and next week. Then the bottom two do the dance off.
Cheryl423
02-10-2016
there's nothing unfair here - they've just followed the Strictly rules.
cwickham
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by londongirlGre:
“No, not like that. They could add the phone votes from this week and next week. Then the bottom two do the dance off.”

Erm, so how exactly is that a double elimination?
aggs
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“This is just carrying the chain on though, and asking for more problems. Is it fair if, for example, Naga does a great dance next week but is still at the bottom end of the leaderboard due to her first two scores holding her back? It's for the best they made the decision now, there's so many ways this can be made more complicated and less transparent a process. The scoring of the first half of the final of Series 6 was an impenetrable mess, and they were only carrying three people over there.”

The problem with the series 6 semi final was the knock on of being a celeb down and refusing to alter the set up, even though it was obvious all the previous week (at least) that it was going to come a cropper .
londongirlGre
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by cwickham:
“Erm, so how exactly is that a double elimination?”

Sorry, correction, they should have just not eliminated anyone this week.
cwickham
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by londongirlGre:
“Sorry, correction, they should have just not eliminated anyone this week.”

They would have had to have a double elimination at some point, and that would bring about all the problems I mentioned above. I really do think they did the fairest and only workable option.
Monkseal
02-10-2016
The problem with the series 6 semi was that it was a perfect storm of the maths landing so that literally everybody could see it was possible for the public favourite to leave via dance-off. This had always been the case before, but the tie just made it really obvious (if they'd scored Lisa one mark lower, Tom may well have gone home legitimately, which would have been hilarious because people would have realised 5 seconds after they loaded Tom into the taxi and the show would have been done)

The problem with the series 6 final is they invented some new arcane system which I think went :

(Ranking based on Semi final judges rank + semi finals public vote rank + finals judge rank) + Finals public vote rank = overall score, with ties decided on public vote in the final

leading to

Rachel (3+2+2 = 7) = 3 + 2 = 5
Tom (1 +3+1 = 5) = 1 + 3 = 4
Lisa (3+1+3 = 7) = 3 + 1 = 4

But even I can't be 100% sure. It was needlessly complicated.
claire2281
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“No, because both would have had the opportunity to dance, resulting in the possibility that Anastacia could have made an error which would have put her place in jepoardy and saved Melvin.”

Let's be honest though - the likelihood of that happening? Nil. Because this assumes the judges always judge on the dance off alone and they quite blatantly don't.

Melvin was awful, all the judges slated it and they would've been sympathetic to Anastacia and her injury. They would've voted based upon last week rather than this, taking her injury into account.

The only chance Melvin had of staying was against Ed, Lesley or Naga and even then he didn't stand a great chance.
Fudd
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by cwickham:
“Week three was meant to be a clean slate - now the other contestants discover that their leaderboard position will be determined by their scores in weeks 1 and 2? How is that fair on them? And that doesn't even get into the problems skipping an elimination would cause down the line. Your suggestion would be ludicrously complicated and unnecessary when the simplest, fairest solution (albeit not one that would make everyone happy) was to go back to the public vote.”

One of those things; whatever they do would be slightly unfair but giving everyone another bite of the cherry is the fairest way forward.

Originally Posted by cwickham:
“How would a double elimination work? If they automatically eliminate both of the bottom two - surely that's just as unfair on both of them as it was on Melvin, not getting the chance of the dance-off? If they have all of the bottom three couples in the dance-off and save one of them - surely that's just as unfair on the couple third from bottom, who now have to dance again even though they wouldn't have previously, as well as being unfair on at least one of the two couples eliminated?”

Either same as The X Factor where bottom place goes then the next two perform for survival - as long as this is explained BEFORE the show then it's fairer then suddenly ditching someone without a Dance Off on the night iself - or havea three way Dance Off where the judges vote to save one couple.
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