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Google Pixel (Nexus) phones unveiled on 4th October
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jonmorris
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“The thing with the Pixel is none of us really know yet as very few have had a hands on experience - apart from the press. It may actually be a very very good phone. I know everyone raves about the S7 Edge, both my grown up children have one. However, and this may just be me, but I find the colours from the Amoled screen to be somewhat artificial and OTT. I actually prefer the colour gamut on a normal LCD screen.

I will reserve judgement on the Pixel until I have a hands on look at it on the 20th.”

I don't think anyone is suggesting the phones won't be good. They do have very good specs but so do other phones either now or in the near future.

It's a shed load of money to pay for a very good phone with iPhone style pricing. Much of that money is pure profit, nothing more.

At the moment, perhaps the most exciting phone is the LG V20 but it isn't coming to the UK. However, depending on the bands supported and the acceptance that you probably won't get VoLTE support anytime soon, it may still work out cheaper to import one than buy the Pixel XL.
Faust
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Erm, me? I can think of multiple times I've stepped outside a train station (once in Manchester, other times in London) and needed to consult Google Maps for directions.

And while you could stand under a shelter to look, I prefer to get moving and keep moving so if it's chucking it down, you'll be pleased to have a water proof phone.

My current daily driver isn't water proof. I can live with it, but it is annoying.”

Well I do a lot of hiking (I always use maps and compass using way points etc, the proper way) and can honestly say I've never had as much as a speck of rain on any phone I've owned. I always take shelter before using my phones.

Mind you if you saw any one of them when it comes time to change you would swear blind they have never been out of their boxes.

I'm the same with all my possessions. I have actually had neighbours knock on our door and ask if they can have first refusal to buy my car when I am going to change it.
Faust
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“I don't think anyone is suggesting the phones won't be good. They do have very good specs but so do other phones either now or in the near future.

It's a shed load of money to pay for a very good phone with iPhone style pricing. Much of that money is pure profit, nothing more.

At the moment, perhaps the most exciting phone is the LG V20 but it isn't coming to the UK. However, depending on the bands supported and the acceptance that you probably won't get VoLTE support anytime soon, it may still work out cheaper to import one than buy the Pixel XL.”

But if it's as good as an iPhone then why would you not pay iPhone prices? The Samsung S7 is a very similar price to an iPhone 7 and yet lots of people buy those. VoLTE is not something that interests me in the slightest as it's extremely doubtful I would ever use it.
daveh75
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“
At the moment, perhaps the most exciting phone is the LG V20 but it isn't coming to the UK. However, depending on the bands supported and the acceptance that you probably won't get VoLTE support anytime soon, it may still work out cheaper to import one than buy the Pixel XL.”

Not even remotely exciting. A bit of pretender to the flagship throne IMO.

In terms of looks/styling its meh, imo, and from hands on I've seen its build quality has been somewhat compromised by accommodating the flappy/removable back
Cloudane
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“So who in their right mind stands in bucketing down rain and checks their phone?”

Originally Posted by Faust:
“I think most 'normal' adults are totally bemused by this Pokemon Go craze. ”

I love how you have this idea that because you prefer to do things certain ways or don't understand the appeal of something that someone else finds appealing, anyone who doesn't fit in with your personal opinions "isn't in their right mind" or is "abnormal" or isn't doing things properly. It's amazingly arrogant.
daveh75
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“Well I do a lot of hiking (I always use maps and compass using way points etc, the proper way) and can honestly say I've never had as much as a speck of rain on any phone I've owned. I always take shelter before using my phones.”

You've never worked outside for prolonged periods in shitty weather have you?

I've killed a phone that was in an inside pocket of a waterproof jacket before.
Faust
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by Cloudane:
“I love how you have this idea that because you prefer to do things certain ways or don't understand the appeal of something that someone else finds appealing, anyone who doesn't fit in with your personal opinions "isn't in their right mind" or is "abnormal" or isn't doing things properly. It's amazingly arrogant.”

But it is my opinion arrogant of otherwise and just like you I'm not going to change my mind. Pokemon is for kids not adults - my opinion.
Faust
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by daveh75:
“You've never worked outside for prolonged periods in shitty weather have you?

I've killed a phone that was in an inside pocket of a waterproof jacket before.”

Blimey I've hiked the Pennine Way - you want bad weather just try that on for size. There were days where I was wetter than an otters pocket.
gibster7
12-10-2016
As previous owner of Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 5 and Nexus 5x (current phone) this is a disappointing year for me!

Can't see the value in this year's offering at all...glad I have another year, maybe two, before upgrading.

And no waterproofing is just unbelievable to me??!! Fair enough, none of my previous examples above had it but at the eye-watering price point google are aiming for with the pixels surely it's to be expected?

No doubt at all it will be a good phone, but even disregarding the lack of waterproofing, wireless charging etc I have the more fundamental grumble that Google are now apparently forking the development of supposedly 'pure' android into Pixel owners, and Nexus owners. I hope they now shut up about the way the manufacturers drag their feet on their own android updates.

Here's to hoping my Nexus 5X lasts a while longer.
jonmorris
12-10-2016
Xda has now got Assistant running on Nexus and other Nougat phones!
jonmorris
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“But if it's as good as an iPhone then why would you not pay iPhone prices? The Samsung S7 is a very similar price to an iPhone 7 and yet lots of people buy those. VoLTE is not something that interests me in the slightest as it's extremely doubtful I would ever use it.”

I don't think the iPhone is worth iPhone prices! And I moaned when Samsung decided to try and mimic Apple by increasing prices and having big leaps for more storage at disproportionate pricing.

But business is business and everyone is free to charge what they want, just as we're free not to buy from them!
LostFool
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Xda has now got Assistant running on Nexus and other Nougat phones!”

I've just been playing around with Google Assistant (via the Allo app) on my Moto X and I'm very impressed. The voice recognition, natural language processing and app integration are much better than I've seen elsewhere.
Cloudane
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“But it is my opinion arrogant of otherwise and just like you I'm not going to change my mind. Pokemon is for kids not adults - my opinion.”

And you are entitled to it, it's just that the endless indirect name-calling just because you think there's no need for mobiles to be waterproof and how dare other people think it's a useful feature, starts to grate a bit after a while. Okay, so you never let a spot of rain on your phone and believe that after an arbitrary age you're not allowed to enjoy certain things any more so PoGo doesn't worry you, and obviously have no interest in more 'grown up' augmented reality things like Ingress either. Therefore waterproofing doesn't matter to you. Good for you. That doesn't invalidate everyone else's reasoning or the things they enjoy, or make them abnormal, stupid or otherwise inferior to yourself - that's what was getting a bit irritating.
Faust
12-10-2016
Originally Posted by Cloudane:
“And you are entitled to it, it's just that the endless indirect name-calling just because you think there's no need for mobiles to be waterproof and how dare other people think it's a useful feature, starts to grate a bit after a while. Okay, so you never let a spot of rain on your phone and believe that after an arbitrary age you're not allowed to enjoy certain things any more so PoGo doesn't worry you, and obviously have no interest in more 'grown up' augmented reality things like Ingress either. Therefore waterproofing doesn't matter to you. Good for you. That doesn't invalidate everyone else's reasoning or the things they enjoy, or make them abnormal, stupid or otherwise inferior to yourself - that's what was getting a bit irritating.”

The point I make is that on a list of features when buying a new phone waterproofing wouldn't even be on my list, that goes for VoLTE to.

My Xperia is actually waterproof though it wasn't a feature that even registered on my purchasing decision. I think the Xperia was the only waterproof phone at that time so I'm wondering how smartphone customers managed up to now without this feature/gimmick.

Take the iPhone, that is now supposed to be waterproof and yet if it gets water damage it's not covered under warranty as they say it's not a permanent state - some feature.
natbike
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“The point I make is that on a list of features when buying a new phone waterproofing wouldn't even be on my list, that goes for VoLTE to.

My Xperia is actually waterproof though it wasn't a feature that even registered on my purchasing decision. I think the Xperia was the only waterproof phone at that time so I'm wondering how smartphone customers managed up to now without this feature/gimmick.

Take the iPhone, that is now supposed to be waterproof and yet if it gets water damage it's not covered under warranty as they say it's not a permanent state - some feature.”

And there are likely just as many (like me) that do look for and care about having it.

Saying a phone doesn't need it because you're used to finding creative and inconvenient ways around it seems odd.

Being able to use a mobile without concern for the weather is a definite benefit regardless of the past coping mechanisms people have.
jonmorris
13-10-2016
Why wouldn't VoLTE be something you would use? I am confused as this enables you to get better coverage on many networks, and improved call quality and set up times.

I can't imagine anyone wouldn't want this feature.

Even if you don't make calls, VoLTE helps for data usage too.
Faust
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by natbike:
“And there are likely just as many (like me) that do look for and care about having it.

Saying a phone doesn't need it because you're used to finding creative and inconvenient ways around it seems odd.

Being able to use a mobile without concern for the weather is a definite benefit regardless of the past coping mechanisms people have.”

But as Apple state it's not even covered by the guarantee and is not a permanent state, which from reading further articles means 'it doesn't last' ergo when is a feature not a feature?
Faust
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Why wouldn't VoLTE be something you would use? I am confused as this enables you to get better coverage on many networks, and improved call quality and set up times.

I can't imagine anyone wouldn't want this feature.

Even if you don't make calls, VoLTE helps for data usage too.”

My average call time per month is only 6 minutes. I suppose you would have to understand my situation - I only tend to use the phone where I can connect to WiFi. I take it with me when I got out hiking etc. but only have it as an emergency. Having just taken early retirement I no longer need to use it for commuting etc.

It's a case of horses for courses but the need for a large screen for viewing videos, waterproofing, VoLTE etc. are not part of any feature list when I am looking for a phone.
Faust
13-10-2016
THIS makes for an interesting read.
jonmorris
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“My average call time per month is only 6 minutes. I suppose you would have to understand my situation - I only tend to use the phone where I can connect to WiFi. I take it with me when I got out hiking etc. but only have it as an emergency. Having just taken early retirement I no longer need to use it for commuting etc.

It's a case of horses for courses but the need for a large screen for viewing videos, waterproofing, VoLTE etc. are not part of any feature list when I am looking for a phone.”

What do you use your phone for then? If hiking, do you never use mobile data when out? (I forgot, the phone might get wet!)

VoLTE allows your phone to connect to 4G coverage you're otherwise barred from. If you're out hiking, you'd benefit most from the vastly improved coverage - which would include getting through to the emergency services if required.

Last time I went to the Lake District, I had a Motorola DEFY (also waterproof) and it proved invaluable for taking photos of the places we walked. Yes, using the screen is an issue in the rain, but you can work better with it than running to a nearby tree that's way off track.

I also used ViewRanger to follow the paths, in pouring rain, and so a waterproof phone proved invaluable.

Of course you can buy a waterproof case/pouch for many phones, but isn't it good to have the feature natively?

Now Apple has done it, I suspect waterproofing is now going to be a thing and next year, most phones will be water proof, or at least water resistant enough for a manufacturer to mention it. Gotta keep up with the Jobses! How ironic that we've had such devices here for many years, and we were slow compared to Japan where they had waterproof phones for even longer.
Cloudane
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“It's a case of horses for courses”

Indeed. All that I was getting at really - that it doesn't invalidate the needs and desires of others. Sorry that it was aggressively put though.

Originally Posted by Faust:
“THIS makes for an interesting read. ”

Coming back to the needs and desires of others The big difference between these of course is the lack of stylus. Personally, when I had a Note 2, I used the stylus uh... twice maybe. OTOH I know of someone at work who uses it constantly, and for them, they're now going to have to wait for the Note 8 (if there will be one) and may not be attracted to the Pixel. It's certainly something of an opportunity though, as is #headphonejackgate
jonmorris
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“THIS makes for an interesting read. ”

Along with the fact that Google Pixel ads are showing up everywhere for me, on nearly every YouTube video I watch, I suppose this will help too.

But the Pixel and Pixel XL aren't really competitors to the Galaxy S7 and S7 edge are they? And certainly not the Note 7. Only if you're simply out to get the newest, most expensive, phone on the market at the current time.

In that case, yes, having a Pixel XL 128GB - preferably in blue - will make you the centre of attention.

At least until people ask why you paid so much money for a pretty average phone in the grand scheme of things, and point out the things it lacks.

And in a few months when something newer comes out that ticks all the boxes, or Samsung announces the Note 7 replacement (assuming it decides to redesign the phone and get it back out quickly and press on, and not to just hide away for a bit until the fires burn out), you'll wonder why you rushed to buy something you new was never as exciting as when Google announced previous Nexus devices and you stayed up late to pre-order.

It will be interesting to see if I'm right, or if people will get caught up in the hype and start to see the Pixel phones as the new iPhone, and sign up on 24 month contracts with bills of £50-80 a month.

If they do, the industry will love making a few quid for sure, but I do think a lot more people are getting smart. From buying more mid-range priced phones that have high-end features and looks, to those who have actually found that a £100-200 phone serves their needs perfectly well, buying outright and going on a cheap SIM-free deal with the flexibility to move networks to get the best of various promotions.
ceepan
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“And in a few months when something newer comes out that ticks all the boxes, or Samsung announces the Note 7 replacement (assuming it decides to redesign the phone and get it back out quickly and press on, and not to just hide away for a bit until the fires burn out), you'll wonder why you rushed to buy something you new was never as exciting as when Google announced previous Nexus devices and you stayed up late to pre-order.”

Even if this was a Nexus phone I don't think it would have proved more exciting. If it had Nexus pricing levels I think there would have been less negativity. I think we are at a point that it is more difficult to bring features that make people go wow to smart phones.
Faust
13-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Along with the fact that Google Pixel ads are showing up everywhere for me, on nearly every YouTube video I watch, I suppose this will help too.

But the Pixel and Pixel XL aren't really competitors to the Galaxy S7 and S7 edge are they? And certainly not the Note 7. Only if you're simply out to get the newest, most expensive, phone on the market at the current time.

In that case, yes, having a Pixel XL 128GB - preferably in blue - will make you the centre of attention.

At least until people ask why you paid so much money for a pretty average phone in the grand scheme of things, and point out the things it lacks.

And in a few months when something newer comes out that ticks all the boxes, or Samsung announces the Note 7 replacement (assuming it decides to redesign the phone and get it back out quickly and press on, and not to just hide away for a bit until the fires burn out), you'll wonder why you rushed to buy something you new was never as exciting as when Google announced previous Nexus devices and you stayed up late to pre-order.

It will be interesting to see if I'm right, or if people will get caught up in the hype and start to see the Pixel phones as the new iPhone, and sign up on 24 month contracts with bills of £50-80 a month.

If they do, the industry will love making a few quid for sure, but I do think a lot more people are getting smart. From buying more mid-range priced phones that have high-end features and looks, to those who have actually found that a £100-200 phone serves their needs perfectly well, buying outright and going on a cheap SIM-free deal with the flexibility to move networks to get the best of various promotions.”

Re: your comment about hiking and data usage. TBH I do my best to detach myself from the outside world when I'm hiking, I'm sure plenty of people can understand that desire. I said previously I like to do things the old fashioned way, i.e. a map, compass and by using 'way points'. I fear to many of us are losing the skills of proper map reading. Relying on your phone in for example the Breacon Beacons could be fatal as you simply won't get a signal.

Re: the Pixel. As the article says this is probably just the first salvo from Google and I expect if they are going to use the Apple business model of hardware, software and services then their phones are only likely to get better with each iteration.

As for low to mid-range price phones. Well Sony had a real winning formula with the Z-Compact range but they have now abandoned that winning formula which has left me as well as most industry insiders completely bemused. The problem with companies such as Huawei is their version of Android has a horrible overlay and not very intuitive. Not sure about the OnePlus 3 has I've never seen one in the flesh.
jonmorris
13-10-2016
There's not so much money to be made at the low end unless you can do the quantity, so I can see why the industry wants to push prices up and enjoy the extra profit.

But we have a moral duty to resist as much as possible.

I'd hope the Pixel phones will drop in price quite soon (something Apple would never do) and then it might be a good buy. I've read the detailed explanation on Xda about the new image sensor and it's quite clever (and in some regards, disappointing) so I wouldn't exactly hate having one if offered - but I won't pay £819 for the model I'd go for (32GB being too small).

I know some people will cave in and buy, and with the ads everywhere, it can be tempting, but I don't think most people will. I suspect Google will have to be taught the same lesson again that it learned with the Nexus 6 and 9.
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