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Google Pixel (Nexus) phones unveiled on 4th October
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jonmorris
15-10-2016
Originally Posted by BKM:
“While that might be true Google have not spent years building up a "premium reputation" - at least not to the extent Apple and (to a lesser degree) Samsung have. To that extent their pricing is wildly ambitious!”

My 6P has been showing signs of a battery fault, so I had to look back for my online receipt and the 6P, with a 5.7inch AMOLED display, stereo front facing speakers and ample performance, cost me £499 with free shipping, for 64GB storage.

Pray tell, why is the 5.5-inch Pixel XL costing £820 for the 128GB model that I'd have to buy as the next one up from the inadequate 32GB?

Snapdragon 821 making it worth £320 more? A newer version of the Sony image sensor worth £320 more?

I think Google may need to build up a reputation more gradually, and if it wanted to build it's own hardware, why team up with HTC when it should have retained Motorola? Which is doing things like the Moto Z and all the attachable accessories...
Faust
15-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“My 6P has been showing signs of a battery fault, so I had to look back for my online receipt and the 6P, with a 5.7inch AMOLED display, stereo front facing speakers and ample performance, cost me £499 with free shipping, for 64GB storage.

Pray tell, why is the 5.5-inch Pixel XL costing £820 for the 128GB model that I'd have to buy as the next one up from the inadequate 32GB?

Snapdragon 821 making it worth £320 more? A newer version of the Sony image sensor worth £320 more?

I think Google may need to build up a reputation more gradually, and if it wanted to build it's own hardware, why team up with HTC when it should have retained Motorola? Which is doing things like the Moto Z and all the attachable accessories...”

At the end of the day manufacturing costs will be different. The 6P was made by Huawei and from all accounts at a very competitive price for Google as Huawei wanted to showcase what they could do to an American audience.

The Pixel is made by HTC and supposedly to a very high standard with unibody construction. Manufacturing costs for HTC are not the same as for Huawei. You are therefore comparing Apples with Pears.

As said time will tell. Google are no one's fool, they know their market but it is clear they now intend to go for the premium end of the market.

I'm sure they realise that many Nexus owners won't be coming with them but in business you sometimes have to take these decisions. There's no money to be made at the mid to bottom end of the market so it's not Nexus owners they are hoping to persuade to join them.
Cloudane
15-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“Surely the answer is to go SIM only?”

No, because if you go SIM only you get the unaltered firmware.. Which is good, unless you want Wifi Calling or presumably VoLTE, which will be limited to EE firmware... which you can only get on a contract.

They're not daft, they want you to buy the phone through them and get a contract.
jonmorris
15-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“At the end of the day manufacturing costs will be different. The 6P was made by Huawei and from all accounts at a very competitive price for Google as Huawei wanted to showcase what they could do to an American audience.

The Pixel is made by HTC and supposedly to a very high standard with unibody construction. Manufacturing costs for HTC are not the same as for Huawei. You are therefore comparing Apples with Pears.

As said time will tell. Google are no one's fool, they know their market but it is clear they now intend to go for the premium end of the market.

I'm sure they realise that many Nexus owners won't be coming with them but in business you sometimes have to take these decisions. There's no money to be made at the mid to bottom end of the market so it's not Nexus owners they are hoping to persuade to join them.”

The 6P is unibody too. Not sure I can see any cheap materials there. Also had the flagship chipset and display for the time too.

Plus, if you're saying HTC charged more then why would Google have willingly paid? Are you saying that extra £300 or so if going to HTC? I sincerely doubt it.

Given the shocking time HTC is having, perhaps saved only by its VR side, I'd argue that HTC offered an even bigger discount.
GavinAshford
16-10-2016
Anyone see this article regarding Huawei (apparently) turning down the opportunity to make the pixels as their brand name wouldn't be on it.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/10...ly-struggling/

I believe that Joe Public will see these as 'Google' phones, most won't know it's HTC that makes them (how many people know Foxconn make iPhones?!). They've being heavily marketed, they are expensive there is no denying it, but for years people have been asking for Google to step up and now they have.

Those people, myself included, who have had multiple Nexus phones in the past had come to 'expect' the same (low price, mid-high hardware) though these definitely aren't Nexus phones, but they could have been, if Google wanted to keep on with the same and compete with the cheap 'unknown' brands. Where would that get them though? Providing the marketing works, the loss of the Nexus devotees should easily be made up by the wider adoption.

Disclosure: I've preordered an XL (coming from a Nexus 6)
Faust
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by Cloudane:
“No, because if you go SIM only you get the unaltered firmware.. Which is good, unless you want Wifi Calling or presumably VoLTE, which will be limited to EE firmware... which you can only get on a contract.

They're not daft, they want you to buy the phone through them and get a contract.”

Well I'm with BT mobile who don't have this facility in any event, despite them now owning EE. However, given neither of those features interests me in the slightest it wouldn't put me off buying a Pixel phone.
Faust
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“The 6P is unibody too. Not sure I can see any cheap materials there. Also had the flagship chipset and display for the time too.

Plus, if you're saying HTC charged more then why would Google have willingly paid? Are you saying that extra £300 or so if going to HTC? I sincerely doubt it.

Given the shocking time HTC is having, perhaps saved only by its VR side, I'd argue that HTC offered an even bigger discount.”

Google had no choice but to go to another manufacturer as Huawei were not best pleased with their Google joint venture. They hoped to get traction in the U.S. by making the Nexus but hardly got a mention out of the venture.

Whatever HTC's current position you should not take away from them the fact they do make some very good hardware. It may irk Nexus owners but Google are moving on and people who generally bought the Nexus aren't the type of customer they now expect to attract. Customers with more disposable income and an increase in their ARPU is Googles goal.

I have read a number of articles which question the build quality of the Nexus.
Everything Goes
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by GavinAshford:
“Anyone see this article regarding Huawei (apparently) turning down the opportunity to make the pixels as their brand name wouldn't be on it.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/10...ly-struggling/

I believe that Joe Public will see these as 'Google' phones, most won't know it's HTC that makes them (how many people know Foxconn make iPhones?!). They've being heavily marketed, they are expensive there is no denying it, but for years people have been asking for Google to step up and now they have.

Those people, myself included, who have had multiple Nexus phones in the past had come to 'expect' the same (low price, mid-high hardware) though these definitely aren't Nexus phones, but they could have been, if Google wanted to keep on with the same and compete with the cheap 'unknown' brands. Where would that get them though? Providing the marketing works, the loss of the Nexus devotees should easily be made up by the wider adoption.

Disclosure: I've preordered an XL (coming from a Nexus 6)”

Interesting if the bit about them releasing a mid range phones in Q2 of 2017 is true. This would suggest they intend to keep the daft premium pricing. See how that works out
Faust
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by Everything Goes:
“Interesting if the bit about them releasing a mid range phones in Q2 of 2017 is true. This would suggest they intend to keep the daft premium pricing. See how that works out ”

No different to car ownership is it? There are Ford Fiesta owners and those that would prefer to pay a premium for a German marque. Google no longer wants to be in the Ford Fiesta market and intends to move into the premium German market.

It's simply business - if you want to remain in the cheaper end of the market there's plenty of choice and ditto for the premium end. You're not being forced to buy a Google phone. I don't see why this is a problem and why so many people are getting in a lather about it.
jonmorris
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“I have read a number of articles which question the build quality of the Nexus.”

Bending was AFAIK the only issue. That said, I am getting a replacement 6P next week because my battery has developed a fault, where the phone is now powering down as dead even when I've got between 8-20% left. Usually when doing something that puts the battery under load.

And I reported it on my Google Store account, had a call back in about 30 seconds, and got a replacement authorised in a few minutes. New phone coming via UPS and a box to send back the old one in a week or so.

Fantastic service from Google, so for anyone that IS thinking of buying a Pixel, for goodness sake do it through the Google Store!

Originally Posted by Faust:
“Well I'm with BT mobile who don't have this facility in any event, despite them now owning EE. However, given neither of those features interests me in the slightest it wouldn't put me off buying a Pixel phone. ”

I realise you aren't really aware of what VoLTE is or how it works, and think it's something only nerds would want, but in due course, BT Mobile will start to utilise VoLTE and you'll want it. In fact, every customer needs it going forward, so while it isn't something they need to be aware about - their next phone should damn well have it.

If you bought a TV today, you'd expect it to support the current standards and if you were clueless about standards, you'd assume the manufacturer had your back so you didn't need to know.
Faust
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Bending was AFAIK the only issue. That said, I am getting a replacement 6P next week because my battery has developed a fault, where the phone is now powering down as dead even when I've got between 8-20% left. Usually when doing something that puts the battery under load.

And I reported it on my Google Store account, had a call back in about 30 seconds, and got a replacement authorised in a few minutes. New phone coming via UPS and a box to send back the old one in a week or so.

Fantastic service from Google, so for anyone that IS thinking of buying a Pixel, for goodness sake do it through the Google Store!



I realise you aren't really aware of what VoLTE is or how it works, and think it's something only nerds would want, but in due course, BT Mobile will start to utilise VoLTE and you'll want it. In fact, every customer needs it going forward, so while it isn't something they need to be aware about - their next phone should damn well have it.

If you bought a TV today, you'd expect it to support the current standards and if you were clueless about standards, you'd assume the manufacturer had your back so you didn't need to know.”

I'm fully conversant with WiFi calling and VoLTE in fact I'm pretty sure my Xperia supports it. However, I already enjoy quite decent 4G coverage and don't make many voice calls at all. If I'm content with my current feature set then I don't see the issue.
jonmorris
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“I'm fully conversant with WiFi calling and VoLTE in fact I'm pretty sure my Xperia supports it. However, I already enjoy quite decent 4G coverage and don't make many voice calls at all. If I'm content with my current feature set then I don't see the issue.”

I don't wish to constantly argue with you over this, but VoLTE is perhaps the most significant feature for 4G - besides carrier aggregation and future speed upgrades.

It was mad that voice wasn't part of 4G from day one, but I get why carriers couldn't wait. Problem is, we're now in this complete mess where the fact there will be non-VoLTE handsets out there has meant we can't just ramp up the power to all, and we have to keep 4G within 2G and 3G footprints. With cell breathing, that can mean even more cuts in signal for 4G compared to 3G.

It's a mess, and VoLTE should be something in every new phone. And supporting it isn't any good, as it actually needs to be active. That requires the IMS stack and settings in the phone, and obviously the network to use it.

Now if your phone has it, and Wi-Fi calling, then surely you'll appreciate that you're going to have a service that people without either won't. Do you think they should have inferior coverage?

In the case of the Pixel and Pixel XL, I was told that all versions will have the IMS stack on them and the settings for EE, so it won't matter where you buy it. But that's not the case with so many other handsets on sale right now. Likewise, I guess that Three users won't get VoLTE support, and there are some parts of the UK that has no 3G, let alone 4G, coverage on Three - but DO have 800MHz 4G.
blueisthecolour
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“I don't wish to constantly argue with you over this, but VoLTE is perhaps the most significant feature for 4G - besides carrier aggregation and future speed upgrades.

It was mad that voice wasn't part of 4G from day one, but I get why carriers couldn't wait. Problem is, we're now in this complete mess where the fact there will be non-VoLTE handsets out there has meant we can't just ramp up the power to all, and we have to keep 4G within 2G and 3G footprints. With cell breathing, that can mean even more cuts in signal for 4G compared to 3G.

It's a mess, and VoLTE should be something in every new phone. And supporting it isn't any good, as it actually needs to be active. That requires the IMS stack and settings in the phone, and obviously the network to use it.

Now if your phone has it, and Wi-Fi calling, then surely you'll appreciate that you're going to have a service that people without either won't. Do you think they should have inferior coverage?

In the case of the Pixel and Pixel XL, I was told that all versions will have the IMS stack on them and the settings for EE, so it won't matter where you buy it. But that's not the case with so many other handsets on sale right now. Likewise, I guess that Three users won't get VoLTE support, and there are some parts of the UK that has no 3G, let alone 4G, coverage on Three - but DO have 800MHz 4G.”

Can you explain to the completely oblivious of us why VoLTE is important to the average user?
jamllew
16-10-2016
It is an absolute shambles and for that reason, I'm seriously thinking of ditching android. Also, the lack of guaranteed support even from Google beyond two years for software updates is disappointing. I was seriously considering a Moto Z Play but will that even be supported to Android O given current trends? And would there even be any point buying a phone if networks/manufacturers do not enable volte despite the handset's capabilities if next years releases are able to access volte? Yes, I would still be able to use networks as I do now but if a feature should be available, why should consumers accept it not being due to negligence from the manufacturer and lack of interest from the networks (unless you buy direct from them at inflated prices for a contract.)

At least with the iPhone it will just work.
jchamier
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by blueisthecolour:
“Can you explain to the completely oblivious of us why VoLTE is important to the average user?”

Phonecalls indoor, where for example Three have only had 2100mhz spectrum, the 800mhz spectrum will cover into indoor rooms in offices where 2100 didn't reach.

Capacity on the network - lots of calls can be carried compared to the 2G signals.
jonmorris
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by blueisthecolour:
“Can you explain to the completely oblivious of us why VoLTE is important to the average user?”

It will allow you to access bands of 4G that will offer better indoor and rural coverage, and ultimately mean that 3G can be turned off (and the spectrum reused for 4G, which is faster, more efficient, better in low signal and has lower latency) and you won't need to drop to 2G, which will also be massively reduced in usage mostly for a few people who still only have 2G phones, or things like smart meters.

Joe Public needs it but doesn't need to know why or care.
Faust
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by jamllew:
“I Also, the lack of guaranteed support even from Google beyond two years for software updates is disappointing.
.”

Are you likely to keep your phone beyond the two year mark?
Faust
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“It will allow you to access bands of 4G that will offer better indoor and rural coverage, and ultimately mean that 3G can be turned off (and the spectrum reused for 4G, which is faster, more efficient, better in low signal and has lower latency) and you won't need to drop to 2G, which will also be massively reduced in usage mostly for a few people who still only have 2G phones, or things like smart meters.

Joe Public needs it but doesn't need to know why or care.”

From your earlier post about this it does seem more of something you put on a wish list as from what you describe it doesn't appear it's going to become a reality anytime soon. Given this scenario I will just carry on using my phone as I do at present.

There seems little point in getting steamed up over something that may happen in the future as there are enough things to worry about in the here and now.
Gigabit
16-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“From your earlier post about this it does seem more of something you put on a wish list as from what you describe it doesn't appear it's going to become a reality anytime soon. Given this scenario I will just carry on using my phone as I do at present.

There seems little point in getting steamed up over something that may happen in the future as there are enough things to worry about in the here and now.”

If you have an iPhone it will work seamlessly. So it is possible.
Everything Goes
17-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“No different to car ownership is it? There are Ford Fiesta owners and those that would prefer to pay a premium for a German marque. Google no longer wants to be in the Ford Fiesta market and intends to move into the premium German market.

It's simply business - if you want to remain in the cheaper end of the market there's plenty of choice and ditto for the premium end. You're not being forced to buy a Google phone. I don't see why this is a problem and why so many people are getting in a lather about it.”

You do not sure your phone in a way a most people would. Never had a spot of water on your phone, use it for 6 minutes of calls a month, don't use when out in the country hiking.

Yet you seem to be under the impression that just because you have an atypical way of using your phone then everyone else should automatically agree to your point of view.
jonmorris
17-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“From your earlier post about this it does seem more of something you put on a wish list as from what you describe it doesn't appear it's going to become a reality anytime soon. Given this scenario I will just carry on using my phone as I do at present.

There seems little point in getting steamed up over something that may happen in the future as there are enough things to worry about in the here and now.”

Three launched VoLTE in 2014. EE launched it earlier this year. Vodafone and O2 are each testing and could launch anytime.

Oh, and there are phone networks abroad too!
Everything Goes
17-10-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Three launched VoLTE in 2014. EE launched it earlier this year. Vodafone and O2 are each testing and could launch anytime.

Oh, and there are phone networks abroad too!”

Given how shambolic VoLTE has been on Android I can for once understand why O2 and Vodafone have held it back. I don't think most people would have anticipated just how bad things really are. Apple have lead the way. While Google fell asleep at the wheel.
Jimmy_Carter
17-10-2016
Originally Posted by Faust:
“Are you likely to keep your phone beyond the two year mark?”

2 years support from the phones release date so if you buy a 6 month old model that will be 18 months support, a 12 month old model with just 12 months of updates... This is not good when youre spending £100s on something.
Spending over £500 on a phone? May as well buy an iPhone in the knowledge that it will not be obsolete in a few years, Aps will still work and should have decent resale value should you wish to upgrade.
1manonthebog
17-10-2016
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Carter:
“2 years support from the phones release date so if you buy a 6 month old model that will be 18 months support, a 12 month old model with just 12 months of updates... This is not good when youre spending £100s on something.
Spending over £500 on a phone? May as well buy an iPhone in the knowledge that it will not be obsolete in a few years, Aps will still work and should have decent resale value should you wish to upgrade.”

I think this is important, I am trying to sell my S7 at the moment so I can upgrade, As far as resale value goes its on par with an iPhone 5S 32GB, I mean how old is that phone??? Android phones simply don't hold their value.
jonmorris
17-10-2016
O2 and Vodafone aren't holding back VoLTE because of handset support. I visited Vodafone’s test facility and they were using both Android and iOS devices for one.

These networks launched 800 for all, so some of the coverage benefits are lost because they can't restrict to only VoLTE users and ramp up the power.
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