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4k Hdr Avr
OMTT
01-10-2016
I'm looking to upgrade my current receiver (Denon AVR-1513). It doesn't have HDMI ARC and since upgrading my TV, I've plugged all my HDMI devices into the TV rather than my receiver as it doesn't support 4K.

Due to the fact my receiver doesn't have ARC, I've been using optical to get the TV to it.
I didn't think the difference in audio quality would be noticeable but it really is.

I've been look at the Denon AVR-X2300W which seems to tick all the boxes. Any other recommendations worth considering?
GDK
02-10-2016
Are you getting DD5.1 out of the TV? Many TVs are not able to pass thru incoming DD5.1 sources (like blu ray or DVD players) and only output stereo from their optical out. There are some models that are able to pass thru DD5.1.

It might be worth trying connecting the TV's Monitor ARC capable HDMI Input to a spare HDMI Input on the amp and turning on ARC on the TV.

Are you interested in surround sound formats beyond DD5.1? Be aware that optical connections in general only output up to DD5.1. If you have DD TrueHD Master or DTS Master or beyond you'll need to connect via HDMI, rather than optical anyway. That probably means ARC.

If you're considering a new AV amp you may not need ARC anyway, as you could go back to using the (new) amp as the source switcher.

As for AV amps, I like the Denon range in general. It's three years since I bought my Denon AVR X4000, so I'm not up to date on their range. I can't recommend that particular model if ARC is a requirement. It has ARC issues as I noted on another thread and won't relay 4K with HDR. It supports 4K, but not with HDR.
chrisjr
02-10-2016
Originally Posted by GDK:
“Are you getting DD5.1 out of the TV? Many TVs are not able to pass thru incoming DD5.1 sources (like blu ray or DVD players) and only output stereo from their optical out. There are some models that are able to pass thru DD5.1..”

That is a very good point. It is also possible that during the handshaking process between the source device and TV that the source is setting stereo audio out.

OMTT, you might try forcing the source to output, say. DD5.1 and see if that makes any difference.

Originally Posted by GDK:
“It might be worth trying connecting the TV's Monitor ARC capable HDMI Input to a spare HDMI Input on the amp and turning on ARC on the TV.”

That will never work. ARC uses two spare wires in the HDMI lead to provide ARC. Unless the HDMI socket is specifically wired for ARC these two terminals won't be connected to anything. Only TVs have ARC wired on an input, AV amps only have ARC wired on an output.
Night Crawler
03-10-2016
Originally Posted by GDK:
“Are you getting DD5.1 out of the TV? Many TVs are not able to pass thru incoming DD5.1 sources (like blu ray or DVD players) and only output stereo from their optical out. There are some models that are able to pass thru DD5.1.

It might be worth trying connecting the TV's Monitor ARC capable HDMI Input to a spare HDMI Input on the amp and turning on ARC on the TV.

Are you interested in surround sound formats beyond DD5.1? Be aware that optical connections in general only output up to DD5.1. If you have DD TrueHD Master or DTS Master or beyond you'll need to connect via HDMI, rather than optical anyway. That probably means ARC.

If you're considering a new AV amp you may not need ARC anyway, as you could go back to using the (new) amp as the source switcher.

As for AV amps, I like the Denon range in general. It's three years since I bought my Denon AVR X4000, so I'm not up to date on their range. I can't recommend that particular model if ARC is a requirement. It has ARC issues as I noted on another thread and won't relay 4K with HDR. It supports 4K, but not with HDR.”

ARC is for audio return, the HDMI version and what the manufacturers build into the design is what determines the level of video/audio passthrough.

Your Denon has HDMI 1.4 so will only support 4k@24/30Hz, you require HDMI 2.0 for 4k@50/60Hz and HDMI 2.0a for HDR support. The receiver will also need to be HDCP 2.2 compliant for the passthrough of any protected/encrypted content, ie UHD Bluray.

The Denon AVR X2300 is very well spec'd for 4K. With no fewer than eight HDMI inputs (including one conveniently located on the front panel), along with dual HDMI outputs, the AVR-X2300Ws advanced video section features the latest HDMI specifications, including 4K Ultra HD 60Hz video, 4:4:4 Pure Colour sub-sampling, High Dynamic Range (HDR) and 21:9 video, 3D, and BT.2020 pass-through support on every input. It also supports ARC.
GDK
03-10-2016
Originally Posted by chrisjr:
“That is a very good point. It is also possible that during the handshaking process between the source device and TV that the source is setting stereo audio out.

OMTT, you might try forcing the source to output, say. DD5.1 and see if that makes any difference.


That will never work. ARC uses two spare wires in the HDMI lead to provide ARC. Unless the HDMI socket is specifically wired for ARC these two terminals won't be connected to anything. Only TVs have ARC wired on an input, AV amps only have ARC wired on an output.”

Ah. OK. I didn't know that. I stand corrected.
GDK
03-10-2016
Originally Posted by Night Crawler:
“ARC is for audio return, the HDMI version and what the manufacturers build into the design is what determines the level of video/audio passthrough.

Your Denon has HDMI 1.4 so will only support 4k@24/30Hz, you require HDMI 2.0 for 4k@50/60Hz and HDMI 2.0a for HDR support. The receiver will also need to be HDCP 2.2 compliant for the passthrough of any protected/encrypted content, ie UHD Bluray.

The Denon AVR X2300 is very well spec'd for 4K. With no fewer than eight HDMI inputs (including one conveniently located on the front panel), along with dual HDMI outputs, the AVR-X2300Ws advanced video section features the latest HDMI specifications, including 4K Ultra HD 60Hz video, 4:4:4 Pure Colour sub-sampling, High Dynamic Range (HDR) and 21:9 video, 3D, and BT.2020 pass-through support on every input. It also supports ARC.”

Those specs. are a really good match for today's requirements. If only my AVR X4000 was not just 3 years old.

I really can't justify swapping. My first amp (a NAD) I kept for 10+ years. The next (an earlier Denon) for 10 years. Both still perfectly functional when I replaced them.
chrisjr
03-10-2016
Originally Posted by chrisjr:
“That will never work. ARC uses two spare wires in the HDMI lead to provide ARC. Unless the HDMI socket is specifically wired for ARC these two terminals won't be connected to anything. Only TVs have ARC wired on an input, AV amps only have ARC wired on an output.”

Originally Posted by GDK:
“Ah. OK. I didn't know that. I stand corrected. ”

Actually I lied

One of the ARC pins is used in all HDMI connections. It is the Hot Plug Detect wire but the other wire is only used for ARC and Ethernet over HDMI.

Se pins 14 and 19 in the pinout table

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
Last edited by chrisjr : 03-10-2016 at 14:42
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