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RTE Long Wave 252 reprieve ?


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Old 03-10-2016, 17:15
derk weasel
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No European government will go against the ITU and as mentioned in another thread German commercial radio have not formally released 261. Even if they had, will take several months for RTE to request it and they dont have the money anyway. .
i dont think anyone is really going to make any form of issue if they did just bump it across as its not even used or likely to be ever again.
the eu like sticking 2 fingers up to everyone and ignoring them whilst doing their own thing so in affect they would go against the itu i think.
lets be honest what could the itu really do?
i think alot of countries just do their own thing to an extent and ignore the itu
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Old 03-10-2016, 17:20
derk weasel
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51 Plate Citroen Xsara Picasso diesel original radio and aerial .
Select "BAND" to MW ,preset 1= 198khz BBC, preset 2 = 252khz RTE,preset3= 1368khz Manx Radio all load and clear .
Suggest a new radio or aerial ......
Regards
my 03 plate xsara picasso manages to pick up 198 bbc4 perfect during all conditions and 252 rtl fairly well in the day but does drift at night allowing algeria to come in.

your right they need a new antenna or even a new radio in there
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Old 03-10-2016, 18:17
Vectorsum
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I somehow missed this article by Noreen Bowden in the Irish Times a couple of months back. Not sure how accurate her information is that it would only "...require a small amount of diplomacy to negotiate the switch with international governing bodies, and a relatively minor technical adjustment that could be done overnight..." in order to secure 261 kHz.

For a start, there are thousands of notch filters installed on phone lines for miles around Summerhill, before even getting to the ATU or TX final stages. However, it's fascinating the reference to the sudden increase in interference from Algeria being down to their turning up the wick in order to reach their own diaspora in France; they've renewed their TX, did the power increase at the same time?
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Old 03-10-2016, 18:36
lundavra
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51 Plate Citroen Xsara Picasso diesel original radio and aerial .
Select "BAND" to MW ,preset 1= 198khz BBC, preset 2 = 252khz RTE,preset3= 1368khz Manx Radio all load and clear .
Suggest a new radio or aerial ......
Regards
I am certainly not going to change my car or even car radio just so I can listen to a poor quality Long Wave signal for a minute or so before retuning.
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Old 03-10-2016, 18:39
lundavra
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my 03 plate xsara picasso manages to pick up 198 bbc4 perfect during all conditions and 252 rtl fairly well in the day but does drift at night allowing algeria to come in.

your right they need a new antenna or even a new radio in there
I used to listen to Radio 4 Long Wave before we got the extra services on VHF FM, reception is so poor that I would often listen to one side band using a communications receiver.
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Old 03-10-2016, 19:14
MikeBr
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I somehow missed this article by Noreen Bowden in the Irish Times a couple of months back. Not sure how accurate her information is that it would only "...require a small amount of diplomacy to negotiate the switch with international governing bodies, and a relatively minor technical adjustment that could be done overnight..." in order to secure 261 kHz.

For a start, there are thousands of notch filters installed on phone lines for miles around Summerhill, before even getting to the ATU or TX final stages. However, it's fascinating the reference to the sudden increase in interference from Algeria being down to their turning up the wick in order to reach their own diaspora in France; they've renewed their TX, did the power increase at the same time?
There's no statement anywhere that I am aware of that Algeria "boosted" its power to reach the diaspora in France only a press release on the longwave and other contracts Algeria has for new mediumwave and longwave transmitters replacing older ones, they are also putting some 300kw shortwave transmitters in.

Algeria had an old 1970's transmitter on 252 which had become inefficient and has now replaced it with a new one as well as having work on its antenna system done so that it could operate at the already allocated power which the previous transmitter did when it was first installed and for many years after that.

It carries programme 3 in French to the worlds 10th largest country which has the vast majority of the population living on the coast. WRTH lists just 15 FM transmitters carrying it all of 10kw or less. Ground conductivity of the desert is poor hence the need for higher power. Nor has she any idea of whether Germany, Russia and Bulgaria will agree to any move.

As to this "incontestable" survey well it depends what you wish to quote and what conclusion you draw from the number of people who have participated. 46% of those surveyed had used a television to listen to radio stations, 40% a computer or laptop, 38% a DAB radio, 24% a tablet computer and 21% a smartphone. As she says 72% of those who responded are over the age of 60 but my 70 year old neighbours use a tablet computer regularly. It's a pity RTE has not for some regulatory reason been able to get itself on the Manchester DAB minimux.

The report is here for those interested.
http://www.irishinbritain.org/cmsfil...to-website.pdf

The Irish Government does have a diaspora fund it could use rather than on the one hand demanding RTE at least break even whilst saying that decisions on operational matters and platforms used are theirs and not the Governments.
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Old 03-10-2016, 20:07
Vectorsum
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The [Irish in Britain] report is here for those interested.
http://www.irishinbritain.org/cmsfil...to-website.pdf...
"25. Focus group participants perceived the computer or laptop and the internet as less user-friendly, more time-consuming and inconvenient to start up and not portable to take around the house or travel in the car. The analogy used by some of the participants in switching from the Longwave service that they are used to, to a digital platform that they are not used to, is like “switching from a kettle to a pan to boil water and make tea”, the
outcome is the same but it is a longer process to reach."


Brilliant! You coudn't beat that comment with big sticks....
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Old 03-10-2016, 21:46
derk weasel
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I used to listen to Radio 4 Long Wave before we got the extra services on VHF FM, reception is so poor that I would often listen to one side band using a communications receiver.

strange that, i have never had any problems with radio 4 on lw
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Old 03-10-2016, 22:13
oscar1
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strange that, i have never had any problems with radio 4 on lw
Me neither ----- either when mobile or on any portable tranny with inbuilt aerial.
Regards
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Old 03-10-2016, 22:27
smorris
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i think alot of countries just do their own thing to an extent and ignore the itu
Not on LW and MW they don't - at least not much since the Cold War.

I don't think clearance for 261 is likely, but 279 would be a whole lot more possible. Currently the Isle of Man has that and definitely doesn't want it.
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Old 03-10-2016, 22:35
Eitshal
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Not on LW and MW they don't - at least not much since the Cold War.

I don't think clearance for 261 is likely, but 279 would be a whole lot more possible. Currently the Isle of Man has that and definitely doesn't want it.
Moving frequencies on a service that's on its last legs isn't likely to happen - for a transmitter of that scale it's not a case of just turning the dial to 261 or 279. There would be a significant amount of work and cash involved and since the service is barely limping from month to month I can't see them stumping up.

The talk on here of an external service promoting Irish tourism and all the rest of it is pie-in-the-sky. Who tunes around little-used AM bands on their radio looking for a place to go on holiday? The Radio 1 relay is what it is - just a relay of Radio 1 for Irish expats and people in NI to get Irish news and a bit of chat. They're never going to turn it into a UK-targeted station - and indeed who would want to target a country with such economic uncertainty and a plummeting currency? Nostalgia for what went before on the frequency plays a large part in such flights of fancy, no doubt.

I presume all the people mentioning Algerian interference are in the south of England - I've never heard anything interfering with 252, back when it was Atlantic or now. London and the SE were always a challenge, even for Atlantic, so I can see why people would be having trouble now that it's on low power.

If they did make the shift to 279, I'm sure there is a Crossed Field Antenna stashed away in a barn somewhere that they could use...
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Old 03-10-2016, 23:03
Maggie_King
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The main save 252 campaginers still think RTE 252 has a long term future in drm mode, they have been waiting for that shipment of drm radios to come to the uk market from India since about 2005 http://www.twitter.com/EndaOKane/sta...1911921665?p=v
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:06
lundavra
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strange that, i have never had any problems with radio 4 on lw
Not many 3000ft to 4000ft lumps of rocks in Cambridgeshire and also not two transmitters on the same frequency roughly the same distance away.
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Old 04-10-2016, 17:53
Simonjharrisson
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Moving frequencies on a service that's on its last legs isn't likely to happen - for a transmitter of that scale it's not a case of just turning the dial to 261 or 279. There would be a significant amount of work and cash involved and since the service is barely limping from month to month I can't see them stumping up.

The talk on here of an external service promoting Irish tourism and all the rest of it is pie-in-the-sky. Who tunes around little-used AM bands on their radio looking for a place to go on holiday? The Radio 1 relay is what it is - just a relay of Radio 1 for Irish expats and people in NI to get Irish news and a bit of chat. They're never going to turn it into a UK-targeted station - and indeed who would want to target a country with such economic uncertainty and a plummeting currency? Nostalgia for what went before on the frequency plays a large part in such flights of fancy, no doubt.

I presume all the people mentioning Algerian interference are in the south of England - I've never heard anything interfering with 252, back when it was Atlantic or now. London and the SE were always a challenge, even for Atlantic, so I can see why people would be having trouble now that it's on low power.

If they did make the shift to 279, I'm sure there is a Crossed Field Antenna stashed away in a barn somewhere that they could use...
Interesting view on the UK economy there. I see today that the IMF have reviewed their predictions and the UK has been upgraded to be the fastest growing economy in the G10. The £ being weak is good for many people, makes it good for trade going out of the UK and as far as imports costing more, I wonder how many businesses will start up making things in the UK that we used to import therefore avoiding the higher cost of imported goods. On balance, I think that the UK economy could be booming in a few years!
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Old 04-10-2016, 19:36
Vectorsum
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Interesting view on the UK economy there. I see today that the IMF have reviewed their predictions and the UK has been upgraded to be the fastest growing economy in the G10.
You mean this? Given that the main comparison is with Germany, Spain, France and Italy, that's like saying 19 stone of Vectorsum is a fast runner compared with an ant, snail, earywig and millipede. GDP is staying stable and consumer spending increasing as it's become clear that the Little England Exiteers not only had no plan at all, but are a bunch of clueless imbeciles. The economy is settling not because of the prospect of LEExit, but because as the months tick by it's becoming clear that LEExit is unlikely to happen at all.

The £ being weak is good for many people, makes it good for trade going out of the UK and as far as imports costing more, I wonder how many businesses will start up making things in the UK that we used to import therefore avoiding the higher cost of imported goods.
Zero? Any sane business is getting the hell out of the UK^H^H^H^H^H England+Wales and Scotland, as much because being British is now a toxic brand as anything else. My Irish citizenship application went in last month, and I'm finalising an accountant in Dublin to take care of the two businesses.

On balance, I think that the UK economy could be booming in a few years!
On balance I think you are mistaken, but won't be around to see you spiralling down the toilet in the unlikely event that LEExit happens.

Now what was that you were saying about radio?
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Old 04-10-2016, 19:39
Simonjharrisson
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You mean this? Given that the main comparison is with Germany, Spain, France and Italy, that's like saying 19 stone of Vectorsum is a fast runner compared with an ant, snail, earywig and millipede. GDP is staying stable and consumer spending increasing as it's become clear that the Little England Exiteers not only had no plan at all, but are a bunch of clueless imbeciles. The economy is settling not because of the prospect of LEExit, but because as the months tick by it's becoming clear that LEExit is unlikely to happen at all.

Zero? Any sane business is getting the hell out of the UK^H^H^H^H^H England+Wales and Scotland, as much because being British is now a toxic brand as anything else. My Irish citizenship application went in last month, and I'm finalising an accountant in Dublin to take care of the two businesses.

On balance I think you are mistaken, but won't be around to see you spiralling down the toilet in the unlikely event that LEExit happens.

Now what was that you were saying about radio?
We will see. I see that the Irish economy is going down the drain along with much of the rest of the doomed EU.
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Old 04-10-2016, 19:57
Vectorsum
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We will see. I see that the Irish economy is going down the drain along with much of the rest of the doomed EU.
It's not the EU that's doomed, it's the Euro. Which is possibly the only project in the last 100 years more moronic and doomed to failure than LEExit.
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Old 04-10-2016, 20:00
Simonjharrisson
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It's not the EU that's doomed, it's the Euro. Which is possibly the only project in the last 100 years more moronic and doomed to failure than LEExit.
I say again, we shall see.
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Old 05-10-2016, 13:31
Brightonelectri
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I say again, we shall see.
RUSSIA seems to have turned off all, or most, of its LF and MF stations. This is
despite the fact that many poor pensioners in that country might find new FM
sets expensive! it seems amazing that the Irish Govt maintains its LF 252 service for
the benefit of a few Irish expats in the northern part of the UK (it is impossible
to listen to RTE on LF anywhere south of London!
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Old 05-10-2016, 15:02
Maggie_King
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One thing that has never been addressed is that RTE received eight offers to take over 252 from teamtalk in 2002, if they had accepted one of those offers, all the money they spent (or wasted) on the 252 site in the 00s would likely have gone into the 567 mw site instead and 567 would still be on air today and for some years to come as it was utilized alot more for sport opt outs and had alot more listeners in Ireland.
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Old 05-10-2016, 15:10
Gerry1
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It is impossible to listen to RTE on LF anywhere south of London!
Not entirely. It's certainly weak, but it can be received in Kent on a sensitive radio in a clean RF environment.

However it becomes unlistenable at night unless you can null out Algeria very accurately.
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Old 05-10-2016, 16:06
stesul63
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[quote=Gerry1;84126876]Not entirely. It's certainly weak, but it can be received in Kent on a sensitive radio in a clean RF environment.

Not that there is a big Irish community in Kent. The main areas of Irish ex pats in the South is North London, reception from a non anorak perspective is pointless. The usefulness of the Long Wave to reach aged ex-pats would I say be in the North and Midlands.
Having a Mother and Father-in-Law who are supposed to be in the demographic that they want to cover, I would say from a practical point of view they get carriage on some appropriate DAB muxes in the UK, possibly the most cost effective would be D2. It is a shame they didn't win the bid they were involved in.
Other than that trying to get carriage on the small scale DAB's
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Old 05-10-2016, 16:13
stesul63
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One thing that has never been addressed is that RTE received eight offers to take over 252 from teamtalk in 2002, if they had accepted one of those offers, all the money they spent (or wasted) on the 252 site in the 00s would likely have gone into the 567 mw site instead and 567 would still be on air today and for some years to come as it was utilized alot more for sport opt outs and had alot more listeners in Ireland.
What you have to understand is like any state broadcaster they are under pressure from their masters (The Irish Government) and at the time there was a group who were keen to have the service for the Diaspora. But like all Western Governments they don't like spending money on vanity projects but like to get value for money for the licence fee payer. Therefore it is easier to blame the state broadcaster on wasting money.

Plus the truth be known RTE have no real interest in serving non licence fee payers
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Old 05-10-2016, 16:36
swb1964
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According to one of the Irish newspapers in my local Sainsbury s this is an indefinite reprevive. It was the front page story and I think the newspaper was something like Irish World or similar...
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Old 05-10-2016, 16:44
Gerry1
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