Appointing credible judges/mentors and giving them full control of who they pick would fix most of the problems as introducing a competitive element would stop them being the script following puppets that the current lot are. Imagine if each judge was representing a charity or something.

This won't happen as they have pretty much got the manipulation down to a fine art now. The show has been around for a long time and turning it into a scripted pantomime is their best attempt at evolving the show. I think the show needs a 3-5 year break but Cowell won't be willing to let go of his prime time slots in case something better comes along. He really must be taking good care of ITV bosses.

The contract has been signed until 2020 anyway, so nothing is going to change unless the viewing figures plummet even lower.

Hey I'm not saying I know but from what she has said in a couple of interviews she has hinted she had some help. I'm her biggest fan and am not bothered at all, she was always the winner in my eyes, if Simon couldn't see that it's more proof he cant spot true talent

I can and will tell you that she was ,as far as reliable sourced rumours went,the planned winner. Well, her or Justin...Several artists who could sing circles around her decided to not enter, and of them, 3 of 3 don't regret it, because of not wanting to be discredited or go down as losing to the likes of Kelly,especially as she was at the time. That pot was unsweetened further by diabolically bad contracts/not winning would have left them no better off in the long run and looking silly in the process.(Just look at3rd place and others on down in Idol s-01, and you'll see they didn't really get any career boost from the show)

Meaning no disrespect to her. She can sing , and grew into a solid song writer,and she was extremely marketable,and is likeable . Also, her girl next door appeal was perfect for the first show's winner.. Still, the singers who made her look amateur in comparison made the right decision, and that is why only Tamyra was left to sound amazing and challenge her.


Here is a read between the lines-her attempted whistle reg note in Natural Woman that she slid to and missed? It was easy for the singer who actually came up with that arrangement



Again, I actually like Kelly C as an artist, but it was all semi-planned.

Its good to have a factual insight as to what is really happening in these kind of shows. Much appreciated.

I edited to explain more clearly,and also to clarify that I do have respect for Kelly Clarkson and her talent, just not the way the shows operate. It has gotten far, far "worse" since then.

I wonder if the distinct shortage of singing talent this year is because many of them have simply chosen to stay away so as not to discredit themselves by being associated with such a contrived farce of a show.

It's amazing how the talented (but not favoured) ones get air time in the early episodes to give viewers the impression its going to be a good year before they get cast aside as soon as these ridiculous wildcards get played.

I would say that is what is happening, and will only get worse over the next couple of years as many artists realise that they are just wasting their time.

No idea

It has been the case from the start, but, over the years, word has gotten around. Many are afraid to speak up, or legally bound not to, or both. Among themselves, even some runner ups and a winner or two join those sent home at bootcamp orJH / those given an unrealistic ,discrediting edit in the lives in warning others to think very very carefully and research the season as much as they are able to , even when"scouted"before considering it. There is no danger of anyone in particular being called out for this, because well over half and closer to 2/3 of those who have done the shows who are artists rather than fame seekers who can sing a bit will have this kind of opinion.

I generally caution the most artistically credible and vocally gifted to be very careful,because for over a decade this has been consistent: no matter how good, if the sound is working against you and/or the producers want you gone you are screwed, but I then give those artists my fullest support in whatever choice they make, because it's their gamble to make, and it *can* work out well occasionally.

Hey ^ Singy I can't pm you xxx

difference is that in past series good singers usually got to the live shows, and maybe were screwed after some weeks but at least got some exposure. (for example Danyl Johnson,Lucie Jones,Paul Akister).
While now the best singers are cut off even before the live shows,making this experience
not worth anymore.

Have to agree with most of your points some of the choices were odd to say the least. There is no need for two joke acts and for them to get through when talented and capable singers are sent home just isn't right Imo.
Re points 2) and 3) i have the same thoughts those selections made zero sense, the one Nicole picked was just average and wasn't even picked originally and as you say saara wasn't liked by Sharon or chosen initially for the final 6 plus there is nothing special about her, why suddenly pick her in the top 3, really didn't get that pick.

Tbh i feel like most of the best singers have been sent home!

In a nutshell, Well said.

Eva, cleared my inbox, you can pm me now .

I still keep seeing comments about Simon. All of that is conjecture,read previous posts for the facts.

Also, I find is interesting that someone who falls for the "Simon controls everything" hype would know about The Voice not having promo/production spending like X Factor. Generally only artists who have experience with and people who work for the shows/industry are interested enough to research that.Those who know it usually would know Simon has nothing to do with final show decisions. Hence, interesting.

In any case, again, don't waste time wondering why Simon would do that. It is all producers and run like any corporation, and the reason is, it works. It looks odd from outside, but it makes them money.


That doesn't change the fact that the way many artists not or no longer useful to them are treated, edited and poorly mixed etc each season instead of "paid" the exposure they "earned" by performing on the show is not decent.

1) Several seasons have actually had 2 joke acts, but usually only with 16 acts and one is almost always cut in the first week or two. I would guess Honey G wasn't necessarily planned beforehand but they decided they didn't want James/Peyton making it tough for the boy acts they are thinking about signing. Thing is it made the overs category too much of a joke. Even the general public noticed.

2) Ryan was definitely scouted, guy has already been playing fairly decent gigs. They tried putting him in a boyband and it didn't work out. So was this their way of making it up, or giving up and using him as a foil to hype Matt? I don't know.

3) Controversy act with a decent voice. Something we've seen before.

4) Calvin was just there for an appearance boost on his single. He's not the kind of performer who would really fit in a Sunday slot on XF.

Singy do you know a few people who got eliminated midtable? I was under the impression that they still got a nice career bump off it pretty often. I know a lot of American Idol contestants have been able to make a living on the country fair circuit over the years. The XF manipulation is much worse than The Voice, but there appears to be a bit more upside as well.

I agree with you on everything else you've said in this thread though. I do think some seasons they may have up to 3-4 serious prospects, and perhaps even a few more they are mildly curious to road test for various reasons. Basically everyone who gets past the traditional joke act elimination around 6th-7th. But more often it's just 1-2. The only time things really went off the rails and a chaff act got signed was the first season Simon was missing along with most of the veteran production team.

This is the point I have made several times. It just highlights how gutless the producers are in that they don't want the challenge of having to deal with the best singers at the lives even though they still have the ability to manipulate everything. It's like Usain bolt cherry picking who he faces in the Olympics 100m final. The show is complete farce.

Interesting to hear all this insight in to behind the scenes and producers having picked the winner etc etc, but just don't buy it I am afraid. Simon is in it for one reason and that is to make money, if he finds a One Direction or Leona Lewis, Little Mix every couple of years he is quids in, but none of them started off as a front runner at the beginning of the lives, so why they would count out any potentially good singers at the start doesn't make sense.

I am sure Simon's ideal is to have a year where you find more than one artist - in the James Arthur year, there was Ella Henderson, Union J, Jahmene, Lucy Spraggan, Rylan! All artists that have sold music after the show, so surely having a variety of good artists is the way to make money from the show, not putting all of your eggs in to one basket, and having one or two good artists and the rest poor. or joke acts. I don't think that people buy music just because someone is good looking nowadays, look at Ed Sheeran!

Still doesn't make sense to me.

Cowell's approach is kind of dated but he is able to appreciate people without non-model looks who are otherwise interesting. See: James Arthur, Ella Henderson.

One Direction absolutely were among the chosen ones at the start of their season. There's a reason they got so much audition screentime and a boy who made judges houses as a solo 14 year old two years before. The plan was not only to make white JLS but also to finally get a group to win a season. Go read the Sofabet accounts.

Leona was probably a frontrunner too, but in the early seasons the process wasn't nearly as "refined" as it is now.

Little Mix were not frontrunners but that was the first Cowell-free season and the commercial options (Janet, Misha, Frankie, Nu Vibe) all self-destructed or knocked themselves out of favor within a few weeks of the live shows starting. Cowell still seems to be mildly peeved that he has to put up with them.

I found the first season without Cowell refreshing. Even though the ratings dropped, I really enjoyed Gary Barlow's comments who was able to speak with authority being a talented singer song writer himself and he was able to give the contestants constructive feedback and advice. He also came across as very honest. No surprise that talent such as Little Mix and James Arthur won under his watch. Cowell's comments are just scripted sound bites that only appeal to muppets and cretins.

Leona Lewis was absolutely scouted. It's not on her wikipedia page, but another thread on here (or maybe in Music) a while ago revealed that far from the shy wallflower the show presented, she'd been an up-and-coming singer even before XF. Not only was she at a professional performing arts school, but she had released some dance music as a featured vocalist and I think she may have been working in another genre too. Some of those early recordings are now available on Spotify along with remixes.

On another note, the Little Mix season is probably my favourite because of how much of a mess it was, production-wise. The final 3 ending up as early-show cannon fodder, a camp gay guy who'd be hard to market to girls, and a rock chick 16 year old who was knocked out in the first show, to try and market at a time when dance was all the rage. Simon must have been absolutely furious.

Yeah I'm not surprised about Leona, but I didn't want to say anything definite. I wasn't following reality TV then and the internet accounts of early seasons are harder to come by.

As for the Little Mix season I'm sure he was pissed. He called the contestants "untalented and unwatchable" in leaks after the season, and ignores Little Mix as much as possible. I'll be really amused if they manage to step up a bit more this era and become the top selling act on his label (currently Olly, which is why he's working on a younger version with Matt.)

Nissi, I know more than a few, and was scouted ,fortunate enough to have some wonderful mentors,and said no to one of the first of these kinds of shows myself, with no regrets.

Many do get a short lived boost from it, IF they make the lives, but for anyone who has achieved being more than just a good singer with a bit more talent than most ( the niche artists with distinctive sound, exceptional vocalists with real artistry, outstanding performers who are memorable, etc,are usually scouted and generally are sought after once they gain some experience and a fan base, not the other way 'round) it is more of a gamble, because they are the ones at risk to be targeted for poor edits and deliberately disadvantageous mixes and such.(Since they are more likely to gain a big vote base just as they were able to gain a fan base with no "professional hype".

Leona was one they stacked the show to make a winner, though her year did have some memorable talent all the same. IMO, Leona was a case of fortunate but also deserving. She is one of the most outstanding ever appear on one of these shows, and ,while there are far more singers at her level than many might realize,her voice is nearly flawless. Regardless of the show, I am even kind of a fan and love some of her music .

LM is probably lucky that Simon can't be bothered with them. Better that than be worked to exhaustion like 1D. I doubt it's a coincidence that they're still going strong while 1D has gone in many directions.

- as is rumoured in the other threads happened with Caitlyn at judges' houses (edited to make her look unsure when in fact she stopped singing because her musician was out of time) and has happened with Saara Alto throughout. I actually think continually introducing her as "Saara from Finland" the whole time is a little rude - as well as a little out of place when Nicole from America is delivering the line.

What did you think of the manipulation last year, Singy? Or which year do you think's been the most obvious, or more obvious?