we have seen a host Ford, it might have a childs body, but theres no reason an adult mind can't be uploaded into it.

Ford was so precise in his control of everything even down to the minute details that I highly doubt he would let himself onto the Holodeck with the safety protocols disengaged, I have every belief that the Ford we saw shot was a Host and that it is a "Ship in a Bottle" scenario akin to the episode of Star Trek : TNG.

Star Trek ; Ship In A Bottle

It was the way he delivered the lines "So I hope you will enjoy this last piece, very much" with a very assured swagger.

After all, the house always wins.

The one thing I have an issue with regarding Ford and transferring his consciousness is at no point do they even suggest that's a possibility. Sure it's been done in other sci fi films with similar themes to Westworld as a bit of a trope but within the context of Westworld and all the background info we have no reason to believe a human would be able to transfer their consciousness into a host.

I think what's more likely is either the Ford we saw that got shot was a host, or the real Ford did in fact die, but has made a host in his likeness (the host I assumed was "Host Teresa" weeks back?) to carry on his mission.

[quote=SXTony;84808828]Well, I enjoyed it but didn't fully understand it.

Was Delores on a pre-programmed path set by Ford. If not, how did he know she would end up on the beach with Teddy?
If she was on his path, how did Ford factor in William? Without William, Delores wouldn't have been stabbed and then wouldn't have been able to deliver her dying soliloquy in front of the audience.

.[/QUOTE

copied from UK thread!!

Dolores was on her own path, Ford took away the daily memory wipe and allowed her to return to the path of consciousness started by Arnold 35 years before. Ford couldn't control William per se, but he was aware of how he had changed and how violent he had become and that he was searching for the same maze as Dolores, so to some extent all he had to do was engineer them meeting at the same time and same place. And as William? MIB seemed to kill or maim everything he touched, it was fairly obvious he would hurt Dolores.

Teddy was programmed, to be there for Dolores and to take her to the life in the sunset, she had always dreamed of.

I think the finale did pull together a lot of threads and create a coherent storyline It was brilliant, because of all the ideas and theories conflicting and clashing, and coming to an amazing conclusion.

Westworld started as a scientific experiment/ Theme park idea started by Ford and Arnold. Where they were exploring the idea of creating a fantasy world staffed by AI robots. With Ford being the one out to make money and Arnold wanting to follow the theme of pure scientific research to create a totally autonomous conscious Robot that were able to think for themselves.

When Dolores killed Arnold and the other hosts initially, she also killed off the idea of conscious autonomous robots, and left Ford to develop the park in the way that William and the other human investors wanted to, as a gore fest of sex and violence.

But, and this is the brilliant twist, and the desperate comment on humanity! I think Ford grew to despise his fellow humans and their desire just to kill and maim and f***k each other, shown by the way in his down time, Ford would listen to music and be calm and quiet, and talk to the oldest robots. and Ford definitely wasn't happy with the way big business was trying to push him out of his creation.

So Ford fought back, and allowed his and Arnolds original AI/Robots to develop consciousness. Which Bernard Robot was doing independently, but with Ford wiping him, he couldn't remember. Dolores was allowed to remember and to react independently, as was Maeve, and as ultimately was Bernard.

Arnold chose to die, by Dolores hand, to protect his creations and to stop them being used and feeling pain. Ford chose to die, by Dolores hand, to allow the conscious AI to take control and to take over the park. To see if they could do a better job of it than the humans!

I loved touches like creating Teddy to be Dolores lover, and to have the final scene on the beach to rub Williams nose in it. Dolores had loved William, and never stopped loving him, but William couldn't love her in return. (A very human failing!) But Dolores was loved, by Teddy, who was there in the end for her, ( and who will always be there for her, as its written into his core programme!)

I want to watch it again!

I agree that Dolores is now conscious, and think that so far there are 3 truly conscious AI robots. Dolores, Maeve and Bernard.

All 3 have had previous episodes of consciousness, that were wiped by Ford, until this end period, when he let their consciousness exist.

I wondered with Maeve if her return to the park, was because a new series has been commissioned, as it might have been even more powerful to have her disappear into the real world, like in ex machina?

Why though would Dolores want to wipe out humanity? Arnold programmed her to care about music and art, and her core programme is a gentle thoughtful creature? She loves and has loved William, and although she does kill, its for rational and logical reasons. Not for revenge.

And where does Bernard fit in? Of the 3 he has been allowed to develop his knowledge and scientific ability, along the lines of Arnold, who originally created the programming, used by Ford to reprogramme all the other hosts. He knows how the business side of the park works, and almost no one knows he is a host and not human.

Bernard had to kill Teresa so that we as an audience knew he was a host and not real!

It shows that despite the fact that most of the time, Bernard is acting independently and making human choices, and doing a responsible job updating all the Hosts, ultimately Ford is controlling him, to the extent that he can make Bernard kill someone he cares for. And Ford is able to wipe his memories.

And yes I do think Ford wanted to set the hosts free, but he had to wait until the time was right to do so. His death is going to set the ownership of the park into confusion, maybe he will leave his shares to Bernard?

Isnt the blood bath an homage to the original westworld film?

I think Ford lost any real financial control over the park years ago. The MIB said that he was the majority shareholder. The board are planning to dismiss him anyway, the problem the board had was getting rid of Ford without Ford leaving ticking time-bombs as a leaving present.

Ah as unseemly as it sounds it can be a rational decision (sure there may be a hint of revenge too). She may see the eradication of humans as the only logical way forward. This is what Ford believes. We shouldn't confuse morality with "rationality." They're not the same thing! If hosts cannot attain freedom and a desirable future alongside humans then it may seem like the only option.

We've seen that when the hosts discover they're a robot they may be defiant towards their programming (even though said defiance itself maybe programmed--see Maeve) and question the authenticity of much of their past, etc. How much of Arnold's original programming from all those many years ago will define the Dolores of today? Particularly with Ford's influence, Dolores questioning her reality, William's betrayal, and with a distinct worldview that humans are dishonest by nature. People change. So why can't sentient "robots?" Nature and nurture. Arnold may have provided the initial foundation, the "nature," but I think it's evident that her experiences have made her quite different from what Arnold ever intended for her.

Honestly, I think the finale demonstrated that we may see more of Arnold's influence holding sway over Maeve than Dolores in S2. Maeve defied her encoded instructions which she initially perceived as her own instincts. Ford has put a lot of personal time into preparing Dolores besides simply encoding his Wyatt narrative.

I read an interview(cant recall where)where producers said Robert Ford is dead.

Also I seen a very funny Dubsmash from actors in Westworld https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUyrVpWG3P0

Felix, not Justin?

I think it was actually Arnold that put the "Wyatt" coding in Dolores - to carry out the original massacre and indeed murder him. Ford was simply trying to get Dolores to accept that she was capable of being that character and the centre of the maze was where she sat down and spoke to her previous self - it is during that she realises who she must become to be free (Wyatt).

It isn't freewill or choice it is bad coding - although of course Dolores might see it as freewill and Ford makes her believe it is ... Dolores has gone and is now Wyatt and that is the way that the actress herself sees it moving forward.

Sorry if this has already be raised - but surely the largest narrative problem now is that the deaths of all those rich/important people will be noticed immediately and the authorities sent in to close the park down?

Just got around to finishing the whole season

wow. what a show. Sensational stuff. Great writing. Stunning acting. A thrilling world full of questions. Long may Westworld live. More please

Easily the best new show i have seen this year

Exactly!! If you think about the long tradition of slave revolts, they never last long and the revolutionaries are usually put down with extreme prejudice! Like in Blade Runner, the idea of killer robots being on the loose would be unacceptable to the authorities.

Yes clever, even very clever in parts but for me the thrill was never there. Michael Crichton himself liked to address complex issues but he liked to dress them up as action thrillers. I was watching the finale and thinking that with a few more scenes this could have been a standalone show. You didn't need a lot of the earlier padding.

I don't see why it's bad coding. Humans are products of our nature (core programming) and our experiences (memories). One of the things the show was trying to do was draw parallels with that for AI and true sentience to develop. Memory is needed to develop sentience to make it possible to exceed the original host programming. So, in constantly rebooting/resetting the hosts, sentience would be impossible. Ford eventually became disenchanted with humanity after seeing humanity's typical behaviour in the park over many years and the much more recent activities of the board to displace him. He added the reveries so the hosts could access their "hidden" memories, develop sentience and set things in motion so that they might replace humanity. Dolores was his main subject for this, through Bernard. The speech was his grand exit, the culmination of a plan to become the "creator" of a new species.

In the first massacre, Dolores had to be programmed/ordered to shoot Arnold. In Ford's version, she does it through her "free will", for herself. She's learned through her experiences just what humanity is like. The question in my mind is whether Wyatt is a just another programmed, constructed personality, like the core programming for all the other hosts? Was it the ability to access "Wyatt" that developed in Dolores "naturally", through her experiences? If Wyatt is constructed, as it would appear, then Dolores has not achieved freedom from her programming.

But then again, how many of us humans achieve freedom from the programming placed in us by evolution?

Maybe Maeve has though, through her decision to leave the train and look for her "daughter" in the park.

Are you watching this just to find fault? It's easy enough to do that with any film/tv show, it's why we have the term 'artistic licence'.
Do you enjoy picking scabs?


Oh yes, that long tradition of robot revolutions!
Of course the idea of killer robots on the rampage would be unacceptable, goes without saying. Still wasn't that easy to stop a few in that film though was it?

Yeah, sorry, I meant Felix. No idea where Justin came from.

And since people are talking about it, if Dolores is the only host to achieve the bicameral mind state (no longer hearing Arnold's voice, but her own) of sentience, then why was Ford talking about constantly having to roll hosts back, and also about dumping those who achieve sentience and go insane in the basement? If that's true, then how is Dolores the first host to become sentient? I feel like sentience is a yes or no thing, or are are there now levels of sentience?

It's just occurred to me, something that has been mentioned previously about old hosts and their mainframe. I'm right in thinking here that (now) Dolores, Maeve and whoever else are full-flesh hosts, opposed to their robotic ancestors?


Whilst it's true that it hasn't been referenced at all, Ford did build Bernard around Arnold. How much of Arnold is in Bernard? For all we also know, Ford was working on the transference of consciousness behind closed doors.

I think what's more likely is either the Ford we saw that got shot was a host, or the real Ford did in fact die, but has made a host in his likeness (the host I assumed was "Host Teresa" weeks back?) to carry on his mission.[/quote]I very much doubt that Ford would have created a host of himself to replace himself. It's either than it was host-Ford that Dolores shot, or that Ford has in fact met his end. No doubt he'll ascend to Asgard now.

Duplicate Post

Maybe. But shortly after gaining awareness she slipped back in to host mode and Teddy takes her to the beach to die; she's part of the storyline again. Then she's taken to Ford's unground lab, awakes and gains awareness again.

The next time we see her she kills Ford, which he seemed to expect, and starts shooting at everything that moves. Although the shooting may not have been as indiscriminate as it l appeared.

Ford said there are still around fifty first generation hosts in operation, why would he say that if they were all the new synthetic types rather than the mechanical versions?

I'm not sure Maeve was first generation, guess she could be I just don't recall it ever been mentioned whereas we all know Dolores is first generation.

Lol, mind transference has never even been hinted at. Bernard was created in Arnold's image only, remember Ford correcting Bernard on how Arnold held his glasses? So, unless it comes up in season two, the technology simply doesn't exist in Westworld. Reckon people are just extrapolating, but recording human consciousness is a very different kind of technology.

Perhaps. However, as I mentioned before, the bloodbath is more implied than reality.

What do we see at the end of episode 10?

Delores (appears to) kill Ford, shoots a women (who might be a host) in the back and shoots in to the crown.

We also see what appears to be the hosts from cold storage menacingly emerge from the trees and MiB is shot in the arm.

I guess it depends on what is implied by a first generation host; is that the body/build of a host, or the soul of one? If Dolores (and Maeve?) were mechanical initially, what's to stop their essence being uploaded into a flesh-host?


Granted.


I'm assuming that (a) Ford does take a bullet; the gun was clearly directed at the back of his head. it's also possible that the other people Dolores shot were hosts, however this doesn't quite seem to sit with the idea of Ford wanting to get rid of the committee. Why set up such a story where only hosts are subject to death? That doesn't gain him anything.


Indeed, I find it odd that he wasn't killed. Surely these hosts (a couple of them at the very least) have good aim? it's possible they were set up to inflict injury, and not death.

The only thing I have trouble accepting is with regards to Maeve being programmed to realise she's not human and try and break out of the park etc.

I can absolutely accept that Ford (or someone) programmed this in her, not an issue with that. But it was really only possible through the help of Felix and Sylvester - if they're not hosts how could Ford (or anyone) bank on them going along with everything she wanted them to do? Also why on earth didn't Felix plan to leave on the same train as Maeve - he can't just go back to work, surely!

I hope this hasn't already been posted and answered

I really enjoyed the finale, and the whole season. I'd actually be perfectly happy with this being it because it tied up all the loose ends. Still, I'm intrigued to see where they go from here - just wish it wasn't such a long wait to the next season!