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Westworld. (US Pace) Spoilers


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Old 09-10-2016, 10:49
Asmo
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I was intrigued by Ben Barnes character saying something along the lines about was this not work related. We have no idea what life is like outside the park. I thought it may be like sending your employees on an outward bound to see how they perform. Willliam doesn't appear to really want to be there.
Could be used by employers as a psychological test... more revealing than Paintball!
Also, his friend William (Jimmi Simpson) gave us an indication that the automatons don't (openly) exist outside the park; in his first meeting with the 'greeter' before entering Westworld, his query was whether she was 'real'. He doesn't appear to think he'd encountered one of them before. The desert boy suggests that there might be some 'in the wild' though.

Read an article where it is hinted they might expand beyond Westworld as in the original movie if it gets a second season. I think it would be great to have different worlds and it's makes sense.
I imagine it could go full 'Bladerunner' with fugitive automatons trying to blend into society. Thinking of William & The Prospector, the automatons could identify 'sympathetic' people who might aid them. I wondered if there was (or will be) more to the prospector's offer than just entering hs story 'loop'.

I too think the man in black has a connection to Yul. Where are they getting the ideas for characters and faces? He seems to want revenge which is intriguing.
We know that the 'personalities' are interchangeable - a character can be physically substituted to fill the same role. So a 'mind' of a defunct automaton could be revived in a new body. Maybe even in a 'real' body... (see again 'Welt am Draht' mentioned above) .
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:56
Hershey2
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Have watched the second episode now and was a bit disappointed in it tbh.

It did cross my mind that it was. to me anyway, a bit like Lost, lots of speculation and conjecture from the viewers, well me, because there wasn't anything 'solid' to get to grips with.

Probably not explaining that too well and maybe I am just being thick, but ended up thinking what was that all about, which is fine to an extent but I just ended up being a bit 'huh'? about it.

Will stick with it for a while to see how it all pans out.
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Old 10-10-2016, 13:17
Corwin
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One thing we learnt from Ep2 was that the Westworld Staff (at least some of them anyway) are aware of the Man in Black and that he is allowed to do what he wants within the Theme Park.

The young boy that Anthony Hopkins met in the desert - he was obviously an automaton, that could be controlled with specific command phrases. However, he introduced himself as being 'on holiday' with his parents. So either there is a trade in these AI people in the outside world (once again suggesting 'The Man in Black' may be one), or Westworld caters to the darkest of fantasies.
I got the impression that the young boy was a Host version of Ford himself as a child.
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Old 10-10-2016, 13:41
koantemplation
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Did anyone else notice that when the man in black shot the bot hiding behind the wall, that the bullet went through the wall, which means they do fire real projectiles.

It is difficult to see but there does seem to be wall dust as the bullet passes through the wall. And also he does something to the hammer of the gun.
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Old 10-10-2016, 14:17
Asmo
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One thing we learnt from Ep2 was that the Westworld Staff (at least some of them anyway) are aware of the Man in Black and that he is allowed to do what he wants within the Theme Park.
I wonder if he could be the sole automaton who doesn't 'reset'. A kind of brutal 'anti-virus', tasked with uncovering suspected coordinated 'aberrations' in behaviour. Maybe 'the maze' is an escape network.. some of the derelict locations below ground (such as the 'storage' area, with all the mall-style escalators around it) look a lot like the place through which people escaped in 'Futureworld' (the old Westworld sequel) so I wonder if the (or, 'an') 'old' park was built on by the new.

I got the impression that the young boy was a Host version of Ford himself as a child.
That could gel nicely with the idea that 'hosts' (a term open to this interpretation) could be intended as future body-replacements if the minds are sophisticated enough*. They've already shown that personalities can be transferred between automatons (substitute 'dad' for example) but their physical minds retain an imprint of their traumas, requiring their (bodily) decommissioning.

*We've seen their bodies being 'formed' internally in a replica of a human's. If their brains are similarly replicas of ours, and they know how to 'load' a personality interchangeably....

Did anyone else notice that when the man in black shot the bot hiding behind the wall, that the bullet went through the wall, which means they do fire real projectiles.

It is difficult to see but there does seem to be wall dust as the bullet passes through the wall. And also he does something to the hammer of the gun.
His blind aim could suggest he's either one of them - or he's done this so many times before he knows where they will hide. Another 'gunslinger' moment. I bet he can override the limitations of the weapons. I guess we'll find out when he has his first confrontation with a guest..
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Old 10-10-2016, 19:28
MR_Pitkin
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How long does it take the hosts to get repaired once shot up? James Marsden seems to be in a right state after every scene he's in.

And I'm still intrigued what happens to the bullets when fired at humans? They seem to hit but no damage is done.
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Old 10-10-2016, 20:18
LostFool
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Two episodes is enough for me. I'm going to leave it until the end of the season and then will decide whether to watch it completely. It might make more sense when watched back to back.
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Old 10-10-2016, 20:42
DUNDEEBOY
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Will this series be released on DVD and blu ray
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Old 10-10-2016, 21:13
koantemplation
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Two episodes is enough for me. I'm going to leave it until the end of the season and then will decide whether to watch it completely. It might make more sense when watched back to back.
It's definitely one of those shows that is better to watching all in one go, but sadly I can't wait for the next episode so will have to watch weekly.
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Old 10-10-2016, 22:09
Andrew_Ballard
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Will this series be released on DVD and blu ray

Absolutely
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Old 11-10-2016, 00:26
delegate zero
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So are Jimmi Simpson's scenes actually a flashback? I'm betting he becomes The Man In Black
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Old 11-10-2016, 11:42
Dog_Bot
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So are Jimmi Simpson's scenes actually a flashback? I'm betting he becomes The Man In Black
I was just going to post something on this - some people are speculating that the show is now operating on 2 different timelines:

Timeline 1 - the present day with Hopkins & The Man in Black

Timeline 2 - set 30 years ago with William & his friend.

We were told in the pilot that there was a "critical" failure 30 years ago - perhaps William was the sole survivor & asked for lifetime access as payment?
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Old 11-10-2016, 13:10
TommyNooka
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Did anyone else notice that when the man in black shot the bot hiding behind the wall, that the bullet went through the wall, which means they do fire real projectiles.

It is difficult to see but there does seem to be wall dust as the bullet passes through the wall. And also he does something to the hammer of the gun.
We don't even know whether the guns the MiB is using are 'Westworld guns', as for the hammer of the gun, he was cocking the second larger bore barrel of the pistol hence why it had the power to pass through the wall.
Also noticed how the little girl mentioned something like 'the valley the snake travels through' and in the following scenes we saw a snake where Anthony Hopkins came out of the ground, I think this is where the MiB is trying to get to.....and I'm not entirely convinced he's not a host. But why would the park management ignore a rogue host (or human for that matter)? Or maybe he OWNS the park?
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Old 11-10-2016, 13:31
koantemplation
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We don't even know whether the guns the MiB is using are 'Westworld guns', as for the hammer of the gun, he was cocking the second larger bore barrel of the pistol hence why it had the power to pass through the wall.
Also noticed how the little girl mentioned something like 'the valley the snake travels through' and in the following scenes we saw a snake where Anthony Hopkins came out of the ground, I think this is where the MiB is trying to get to.....and I'm not entirely convinced he's not a host. But why would the park management ignore a rogue host (or human for that matter)? Or maybe he OWNS the park?
Yes it could have been a real gun, which would explain why a real bullet hit the robot and wall.

It's part of the mystery as to why the MiB is trying to find the Maze. But I think you are right it is probably where Hopkin's character is.

I'm hoping the MiB storyline is bigger than it seems at the moment, certainly don't want it to be about one person's issues rather than about the bigger picture of AI, and what sentience is.
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Old 11-10-2016, 13:55
Corwin
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I was just going to post something on this - some people are speculating that the show is now operating on 2 different timelines:

Timeline 1 - the present day with Hopkins & The Man in Black

Timeline 2 - set 30 years ago with William & his friend.

We were told in the pilot that there was a "critical" failure 30 years ago - perhaps William was the sole survivor & asked for lifetime access as payment?
Which Hosts have been seen in these scenes?

Dolores of course and Maeve plus I think Clementine.

Was Teddy seen?


We know Dolores is the oldest Host still being used but if these scenes are 30 years in the past then Maeve and Clementine are 30 plus years old as well.

I suppose without knowing how old Dolores actually is and how long the Park was open for before the Critical failure we can't really deduce too much from this.
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Old 11-10-2016, 16:04
Flash525
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As much as I'm enjoying the show, there's one small thing that I can't quite get my head around, and that's the transportation between the facility and westworld itself via the train. That one guy stepped through a door onto a moving train, which was shown not to be connected to anything when out in the open? I thought teleportation (of some sort) but then Hopkins (and others) make use of lifts and such, so how are people getting about?

As for the Man in Black, I think he is human from what we've seen so far. Not sure what his story is so far though. Will he tire of fulfilling his darker desires in-game and escalate to real people? Other guests or the engineers in the background?
He doesn't seem to have any dark desires though, he's seeking some maze, though for what reasons I'm not sure. If he is a human guest (as it is implied) then he's looking for a harder game or something? Why not just ask the programmers for something different? I don't get what the maze is supposed to be, and what it'll offer him.

I further don't understand how these AI are aware of the maze too... This is all assuming the man in black is human, and not some enhanced AI that's been given extra privileges. Maybe an AI that's been programmed to think of itself as actually human?

The young boy that Anthony Hopkins met in the desert - he was obviously an automaton, that could be controlled with specific command phrases. However, he introduced himself as being 'on holiday' with his parents. So either there is a trade in these AI people in the outside world (once again suggesting 'The Man in Black' may be one), or Westworld caters to the darkest of fantasies.
If you're implying what I think you're implying then it's more than likely. If the creators of Westworld allow for rape, murder and all that, do they have allowable limits of what's allowed?

Read an article where it is hinted they might expand beyond Westworld as in the original movie if it gets a second season. I think it would be great to have different worlds and it's makes sense.
So will Season 2 be called Futureworld, or are they going to keep the same name like they've done with CW's The 100 (when at least 50 of the original 100 are now dead).

The desert boy suggests that there might be some 'in the wild' though.
I was under the impression that took place within Westworld?

Did anyone else notice that when the man in black shot the bot hiding behind the wall, that the bullet went through the wall, which means they do fire real projectiles.
Honestly, I thought that was already established. What hasn't yet been revealed is exactly how these bullets work, unless the AI's are running around with different guns/bullets to humans, but then if an AI picked up a human gun, would they not be capable of actual murder?

I figure this is the only explanation for the moment; humans have guns that'll kill AI's, whereas AI's have guns that can't harm humans. How that works remains to be seen/explained.

That could gel nicely with the idea that 'hosts' (a term open to this interpretation) could be intended as future body-replacements if the minds are sophisticated enough*. They've already shown that personalities can be transferred between automatons (substitute 'dad' for example) but their physical minds retain an imprint of their traumas, requiring their (bodily) decommissioning.

*We've seen their bodies being 'formed' internally in a replica of a human's. If their brains are similarly replicas of ours, and they know how to 'load' a personality interchangeably....
Do we know if AI's age? Presumably they'd be recycled every year to stop the aging of an actual model, but if a model was left active for 50+ years, would that be reflected by age, or would they still look exactly the same?

I ask only cause a 10yr old AI might not be the best idea to plant your consciousness into, whereas if said AI could grow, why the need for a child AI in the first place? Just create an adult version of said AI..

And I'm still intrigued what happens to the bullets when fired at humans? They seem to hit but no damage is done.
As mentioned above, likely different bullets, or they're bullets that inflict bullet wounds if they come into contact with AI skin/material..? I guess that rectifies my earlier comment, there aren't two types of guns, instead only one, and the bullets don't react with actual human skin.

So are Jimmi Simpson's scenes actually a flashback? I'm betting he becomes The Man In Black
Never even thought of that. I just assumed it was all relative.
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Old 11-10-2016, 16:09
Asmo
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Yes it could have been a real gun, which would explain why a real bullet hit the robot and wall.
I wondered if the gun Dolores dug up had been provided by the Man in black..

It's part of the mystery as to why the MiB is trying to find the Maze (...) I'm hoping the MiB storyline is bigger than it seems at the moment,
The current trailer running on Sky today features what appears to be Ed Harris' voice saying:

"what if I told you I was here to set you free?"
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Old 11-10-2016, 16:25
Asmo
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If you're implying what I think you're implying then it's more than likely. If the creators of Westworld allow for rape, murder and all that, do they have allowable limits of what's allowed?
They say 'do whatever you want' (or words to that effect) several times. Anything goes it seems.

I was under the impression that took place within Westworld?
It did. But the boy said he was there with his parents 'on holiday' - apart from the British terminology, would a remote wild west outlaw town be a common recreational destination for a small family back in the day? I wouldn't have thought so. Further, the boy's explanation for being alone in the desert was that his parents told him to 'do whatever I want'. Maybe it's just the 'back story' he's been fed to explain his presence (to himself)?

Do we know if AI's age? Presumably they'd be recycled every year to stop the aging of an actual model, but if a model was left active for 50+ years, would that be reflected by age, or would they still look exactly the same?
They said Dolores had been 'in use' for 30 years - but looked 'new'. They are repaired to original spec continuously.

I ask only cause a 10yr old AI might not be the best idea to plant your consciousness into, whereas if said AI could grow, why the need for a child AI in the first place? Just create an adult version of said AI..
Nostalgia? If consciousness can be transferred, you could move on when it suits you..
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Old 11-10-2016, 16:30
Flash525
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It did. But the boy said he was there with his parents 'on holiday' - apart from the British terminology, would a remote wild west outlaw town be a common recreational destination for a small family back in the day? I wouldn't have thought so. Further, the boy's explanation for being alone in the desert was that his parents told him to 'do whatever I want'. Maybe it's just the 'back story' he's been fed to explain his presence (to himself)?
Surely in old Western times people visited in-laws, friends and family? Could such a visit not be considered a holiday? If the boy wasn't an AI, I would have expected a very different reaction out of him, further to him not doing as instructed by Hopkins' character.
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Old 11-10-2016, 16:52
Asmo
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Surely in old Western times people visited in-laws, friends and family? Could such a visit not be considered a holiday? If the boy wasn't an AI, I would have expected a very different reaction out of him, further to him not doing as instructed by Hopkins' character.
Back in the day, a trip to the Western U.S. for a British family would have involved a very expensive Atlantic crossing, taking maybe a week or more, followed by an expensive trans-America rail journey taking a similar length of time. All to visit a dangerous, lawless backwater briefly? The 'holiday' backstory just seems highly improbable within the Westworld setup, but it could of course just be what he was 'programmed' to believe of himself to explain his presence...

In Ep2 it was explained (I'll have to watch again to recall who said it and the precise wording) that the further you strayed from the town, the more 'extreme' the experience that could be found. There's a young boy wandering alone out there...
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Old 11-10-2016, 16:59
Flash525
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In Ep2 it was explained (I'll have to watch again to recall who said it and the precise wording) that the further you strayed from the town, the more 'extreme' the experience that could be found. There's a young boy wandering alone out there...
Wasn't it one of the two new visitors? The more aggressive one?

Not quite sure on the meaning though, cause how much more extreme an experience can be found by a wandering child? Surely the concept of such an experience would need to apply to all visitors, when obviously such an experience isn't going to cater to the majority.
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Old 11-10-2016, 17:28
Gillypoots
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Even thought I'm sure Westworld the tv series is only a passing nod to the original film, given the detail and technology that's in the show, I'm going to catch up with the film again as it will be interesting to see how Yul Brynner's character is different, or not, to Ed Harris.

I saw the film quite a long time ago and don't remember much about it overall, even though it was enjoyable if a bit unsettling.
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Old 11-10-2016, 17:51
neo_wales
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I must admit I've really enjoyed the first two episodes. The original film was good but this show I believe will be better.

Good to have a new show to watch now that 'The Blacklist' has gone down the pan to the point I won't it watch anymore
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Old 11-10-2016, 18:40
Alrightmate
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We don't even know whether the guns the MiB is using are 'Westworld guns', as for the hammer of the gun, he was cocking the second larger bore barrel of the pistol hence why it had the power to pass through the wall.
Also noticed how the little girl mentioned something like 'the valley the snake travels through' and in the following scenes we saw a snake where Anthony Hopkins came out of the ground, I think this is where the MiB is trying to get to.....and I'm not entirely convinced he's not a host. But why would the park management ignore a rogue host (or human for that matter)? Or maybe he OWNS the park?
I wonder if that was the DNA helix she was referring to?

Google image search of DNA helix snake

It could also be a reference to Gods, as some ancient civilizations like the Sumerians worshipped a snake God, and there is often talk of acting like God in this series.
https://ferrebeekeeper.wordpress.com...lix-snake-god/

These are just speculations though where I'm guessing at the potential subtext of symbolism.
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Old 11-10-2016, 18:53
Alrightmate
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I thought it was interesting when the Anthony Hopkins character was talking to Bernard about how they create life from chaos, and later on it is revealed that Barnard seems to be allowing things to go wrong, or telling people to shut up when things are going wrong.
It strikes me that Bernard may be using that sentiment to allow real sentient life to develop from natural chaos.

Of course it's a planned society where it's essential for the park to function in perfect order for the guests .
Bernard may be trying to create the conditions needed for life to create itself which can only manifest itself through error. Much like actual life on earth and how species on Earth evolved.

But then you could go to a deeper level and speculate that the Anthony Hopkins character may be fully aware of what's going on and is himself feeding ideas to Bernard which he knows he will act on.
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