Yet the Brit awards committee themselves say the Icon award is to celebrate British culture, not world culture or world sales. They are completely irrelevant.

Like I said before, I think you're being totally parochial, just like the awards themselves. That's probably why the industry got itself into trouble.

But I'm prepared to humour you with this. So what is Robbie Williams' immense and lasting contribution to British culture that sets him apart? And if it's not about worldwide sales figures, how is his influence on music as big as Ray Davies', Paul Weller's or Morrissey's then?

I disagree

people who are into more "challenging" acts, for want of a better word, will typically be less interested in watching prime time tv awards shows. so stick some less popular mainstream acts on and the audience will dwindle as it will just put off those who tune in to watch Robbie and kylie and Justin etc. people into Depeche mode (who do have a new album coming out after all) are less likely to want to sit through 2 hours of shit with Justin beiber and drake to see DM appear for 5 minutes

it's simple. the demographics of people who watch the shits aren't interested in rock and metal. you have rock/metal awards for that, and people who watch the shits probably aren't tuning in. I'm not into metal, but don't you have kerrang awards? there surely must be more?

the point of the awards is to make money. adding metal to the shits isn't going to help anyone. metallica fans won't want to watch drake and Justin beiber waiting on metallica getting an award for the best haircut

You make good points unique, but I would suggest the only reason the other award shows exist is precisely because of the parochialism of the Brits. Other incredibly successful and influential British acts were being excluded from the Brits, so they had their own awards instead. It's all music at the end of the day.

As a side note, it's worth mentioning that the grime scene got very uppity about being ignored this year and the Brits have said they're going to change that next year and be more inclusive to grime. So they can change and open their eyes and ears when they are put under pressure to do so.

I disagree really. the awards are there to make money, and if they could genuinely make more profit in any way whatsoever they would do it. but playing safe and sticking all the commercial acts together on prime time tv is probably the best way to do it. grime has more of a commercial mainstream appeal than metal, with grime-lite tracks in the charts and probably on tv adverts and stuff. personally I thought grime was long dead and considered what people call grime to be grime-lite or grime influenced rather than real grime. the "old" school grime acts aren't really doing anything new or innovative now compared to what they did before. if grime was going to help them make more money they would do it, but perhaps the powers at be think other acts will make them more profit instead. it's just about the bottom line on the accountants book a the end of the day

It's a depressing state of affairs the way you paint it. No wonder the industry has become increasingly irrelevant. No room for risk-taking, no room for eclecticism, just the accountants' bottom line. Ironic when you consider this was the year both Bowie and Prince died.

Over-rated gurning idiot.

it's been like that for decades. prince and bowie reached commercial acclaim around the time the accountants took over

however there is room for risk taking. big acts can opt out of restrictive contracts and go it alone and new acts can choose not to take them and release music independantly instead. there's various channels like youtube to release media and make money, but if you want to make it hugely commercially successful then you need to suck the corporate dick, and that's pretty much the same in almost any industry

Though the GRAMMYs seem to be able to feature multiple music flavours and if you have a whole day to waste the World Music Awards in Monaco seem to feature every type you can imagine

To correct you, Depeche Mode won a Brit for the single Enjoy the Silence - this was however voted by the public & was hijacked by the fan club (I voted)

But if any group deserve a lifetime achievement award then it's DM .... hopefully after being overlooked for so long they will tell them where to stick the award if the unthinkable happened!!

PS A there is new album (Spirit) & tour next year

both shows have a different audience to the brits so tailor the shows to suit the audience. i understand with the grammys at least, like the oscars, some awards are given out before the main broadcast so viewers aren't bored to tears with awards for best tea boy and best photoshop artist

It's only in the US and Canada that Robbie struggles, the majority of his albums have charted in the top 10 in most other countries.


Why astounding? He's one of the biggest music stars in the UK. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that he's accumulated a lot of number one albums over the last 19 years, he releases catchy pop music that millions of people enjoy. He might not have an influence on music in the way other British male singer-songwriters do, but he's still an iconic performer in British culture, he also has a few classic pop songs to his name.

It's not like Madonna is an artist with lots of credibility, she polarises music buyers as much as Robbie does. I think it probably surprises a lot of people that she's had a dozen number one albums in the UK, it's not like she's influenced a lot of credible artists, it's mostly pop acts like Katy Perry and Britney Spears who cite her as an influence. Like Williams, Madonna is a singer who's limited vocally and struggles without co-writers. Both of them still get to number one on the album chart because they've established huge, loyal fan bases, but neither has done anything of note for a few years now, although Robbie's last number one single was only four years ago, Madonna's was eight years ago.

If DM get a lifetime achievement award then Wilder needs to be there, because quite frankly since he left the band have been a shadow of the band they once were - of the five non wilder albums only Ultra and the first half of Playing The Angel comes anywhere near to the level the band were on before he left.

Must be looking inside then, our Robbie, as Sam Smith and Ed Sheeran had no trouble claiming the USA

They already did. They were supposed to get it a few years ago but turned it down after being told it would be presented after the Televised portion of the show ended.

People saying Robbie hasn't had international success are clueless. He hasn't done well in the States but he is very popular in Europe and South America

Slightly off-topic..

Robbie Williams's new song Party Like A Russian has some awful lyrics:


If there is a BRIT award for worst song lyrics, Robbie is a shoo-in!

Even Des'ree would be hard pushed to beat that😊

I didn't say he hadn't had international success, I said he hadn't become big in America (despite a big promotional push to sell him over there) and America has always been the holy grail for British acts.

If becoming big in South America gets you the Brits Icon, give it to Chris de Burgh!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big Madonna fan, but she was certainly one of the artists who defined an era of popular music and was a global SUPERSTAR (hence why she was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the first year she was eligible). I doubt Robbie will ever be inducted into that because his impact on music is not comparable.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is, naturally enough, predisposed to US Rock and Roll acts, some of which (Little Anthony and the imperials anyone?) are pretty obscure outside America. It is by no means a comprehensive list of globally popular or influential acts. True Robbie Williams is unlikely to be inducted but then neither has Kate Bush or Kraftwerk.

Martin Gore of Depeche Mode is an all out genius, has he or the band been recognised by the establishment yet?

Adam Ant deserves something I think, The Cure.

I think the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is far from perfect, but looking at who's been inducted it does seem to have a higher bar than the Brits, which tends to over-laud very trivial acts in the scheme of things like Robbie.

I first heard it when I was doing a bit of early Christmas shopping, a couple of weeks ago. I literally froze on the spot and tried to listen to the lyrics really carefully, to make sure I wasn't hearing them wrong. I remember thinking that the song was awful, but its grown on me a little.

I also hear a Sergei Prokofiev composition in the music. The song now reminds me of the Apprentice.