This may well have been aired before, but Ian Waite and Karen Hardy do offer some really useful and helpful advice and tips in their segments on It Takes Two in the week, so I was wondering if any of the pro dancers ever take any of this to heart and incorporate the 'improvements' in their planned forthcoming routines?
Do the professional dancers take any notice of 'It Takes Two'?
1 of 2
With a healthy dose of "IMO"...
...
I reckon they're too busy to watch it, but if they caught it by being on ITT at the same time they might listen. Otherwise, I reckon they're probably in their own self-created bubble in order to avoid distractions. They must know that following media coverage, however slight, opens up the risk of going down the rabbit hole and seeing something either annoying or unpleasant, just when you need to keep your partnership's self confidence up.
And I daresay the pro has already said much of it to their partner already. Plus I bet there's a certain amount of pride involved- not many of us enjoy unsolicited advice, especially in a highly competitive workplace. However, I do remember Gleb asking Anton's advice on a move last year as they were rehearsing next door to each other, but I should imagine that Ian and Karen's advice on ITT is often so general and so rushed that only a small amount of it would be useful.
...I reckon they're too busy to watch it, but if they caught it by being on ITT at the same time they might listen. Otherwise, I reckon they're probably in their own self-created bubble in order to avoid distractions. They must know that following media coverage, however slight, opens up the risk of going down the rabbit hole and seeing something either annoying or unpleasant, just when you need to keep your partnership's self confidence up.
And I daresay the pro has already said much of it to their partner already. Plus I bet there's a certain amount of pride involved- not many of us enjoy unsolicited advice, especially in a highly competitive workplace. However, I do remember Gleb asking Anton's advice on a move last year as they were rehearsing next door to each other, but I should imagine that Ian and Karen's advice on ITT is often so general and so rushed that only a small amount of it would be useful.
Of course they do; at least most of them.
I will NEVER forget that Harry and Aliona interview when she said something to the effect that she didn't care about Len's opinion the week prior to that. ..Harry's face was a picture and you could tell he was thinking oh no Aliona don't say that haha. And guess what ? during the next week, when Len was criticizing Harry he let Aliona know that he saw what she said the other day at itt ...he was pretty mad about it and if I'm not mistaken he gave them an even lower mark than usual that week.
Also the celebrities over the years have appreciated advices from Ian and Karen and some of them even thanked them on twitter for it and say how helpful they were.
I will NEVER forget that Harry and Aliona interview when she said something to the effect that she didn't care about Len's opinion the week prior to that. ..Harry's face was a picture
and you could tell he was thinking oh no Aliona don't say that haha. And guess what ? during the next week, when Len was criticizing Harry he let Aliona know that he saw what she said the other day at itt ...he was pretty mad about it and if I'm not mistaken he gave them an even lower mark than usual that week.Also the celebrities over the years have appreciated advices from Ian and Karen and some of them even thanked them on twitter for it and say how helpful they were.
Originally Posted by edy10:
“Of course they do; at least most of them.
I will NEVER forget that Harry and Aliona interview when she said something to the effect that she didn't care about Len's opinion the week prior to that. ..Harry's face was a picture and you could tell he was thinking oh no Aliona don't say that haha. And guess what ? during the next week, when Len was criticizing Harry he let Aliona know that he saw what she said the other day at itt ...he was pretty mad about it and if I'm not mistaken he gave them an even lower mark than usual that week.
Also the celebrities over the years have appreciated advices from Ian and Karen and some of them even thanked them on twitter for it and say how helpful they were.”
“Of course they do; at least most of them.
I will NEVER forget that Harry and Aliona interview when she said something to the effect that she didn't care about Len's opinion the week prior to that. ..Harry's face was a picture
and you could tell he was thinking oh no Aliona don't say that haha. And guess what ? during the next week, when Len was criticizing Harry he let Aliona know that he saw what she said the other day at itt ...he was pretty mad about it and if I'm not mistaken he gave them an even lower mark than usual that week.Also the celebrities over the years have appreciated advices from Ian and Karen and some of them even thanked them on twitter for it and say how helpful they were.”
Yes I remember that. His comment was long the lines."I am not saying anything to you Aliona, you don't care what we say"
Originally Posted by fredster:
“Yes I remember that. His comment was long the lines."I am not saying anything to you Aliona, you don't care what we say"”
“Yes I remember that. His comment was long the lines."I am not saying anything to you Aliona, you don't care what we say"”
He was livid
As they are all professional dancers, they will definitely already be aware of what they need to work on with their celeb partners. The pro's giving critique in the studio will say nothing new, and nothing that the professional dancers don't already know about.
I'd say celeb's families are watching and if something is said about them, they are on the phone and the pro will be asked about that.
Originally Posted by CravenHaven:
“"Oh noes! We got criticised by Zoe's tame camp dancer, Idbetterdosomefingaboutit..."”
“"Oh noes! We got criticised by Zoe's tame camp dancer, Idbetterdosomefingaboutit..."”
..... who is a pro dancer in his own right, and offers some good critique.
I can only speak for one pro dancer (who shall remain nameless) who says he watches Ian's critiques because, he says, however much you try and watch all that your celeb partner is doing, there can always be something you've missed and which can be improved. It's one of the disadvantages of partnering the person you are teaching, as opposed to teaching/watching a couple.
Originally Posted by dippydancing:
“However, I do remember Gleb asking Anton's advice on a move last year as they were rehearsing next door to each other, but I should imagine that Ian and Karen's advice on ITT is often so general and so rushed that only a small amount of it would be useful.”
“However, I do remember Gleb asking Anton's advice on a move last year as they were rehearsing next door to each other, but I should imagine that Ian and Karen's advice on ITT is often so general and so rushed that only a small amount of it would be useful.”
I remember Gleb getting flack for that on this forum, but if you're stuck and Ballroom's not your specialty, I'd much rather my pro just ask for help than muddle through.
Originally Posted by Monsieur23:
“I remember Gleb getting flack for that on this forum, but if you're stuck and Ballroom's not your specialty, I'd much rather my pro just ask for help than muddle through.”
“I remember Gleb getting flack for that on this forum, but if you're stuck and Ballroom's not your specialty, I'd much rather my pro just ask for help than muddle through.”
There is nothing to stop any of the pro dancers getting help and advice from other dancers, whether they are Strictly pros or not. In fact, quite a few have brought in outside help to assist with routines, etc. Latin pros getting help with ballroom routines; and vice versa.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“I can only speak for one pro dancer (who shall remain nameless) who says he watches Ian's critiques because, he says, however much you try and watch all that your celeb partner is doing, there can always be something you've missed and which can be improved. It's one of the disadvantages of partnering the person you are teaching, as opposed to teaching/watching a couple.”
“I can only speak for one pro dancer (who shall remain nameless) who says he watches Ian's critiques because, he says, however much you try and watch all that your celeb partner is doing, there can always be something you've missed and which can be improved. It's one of the disadvantages of partnering the person you are teaching, as opposed to teaching/watching a couple.”
.
Makes total sense to me. I will always listen to what another experienced dancer might say - particularly in Argentine Tango (which is fiendishly difficult) -even if their style is different to ours. We never stop learning and re-assessing our technique and approach and so do our UK based teachers - most of whom perform themselves as well as teaching.
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“.
Makes total sense to me. I will always listen to what another good dancer might say - particularly in Argentine Tango (which is fiendishly difficult) , where we have visiting pro AT couples visiting from all over the world, teaching one-to-one and giving master classes as well. We listen to everything they say, even if their style is different to ours. We never stop learning and re-assessing our technique and approach.”
“.
Makes total sense to me. I will always listen to what another good dancer might say - particularly in Argentine Tango (which is fiendishly difficult) , where we have visiting pro AT couples visiting from all over the world, teaching one-to-one and giving master classes as well. We listen to everything they say, even if their style is different to ours. We never stop learning and re-assessing our technique and approach.”
I agree with what you say here, but as far as SCD goes, we are looking at what they can achieve in just a week, not on an ongoing basis.
As a dancer, you continue to learn and improve your skills all the time,never stop learning, but the SDC celebs are beginners and will only be at a basic standard in the big scheme of things. The pro should be more than capable of knowing what needs work, even dancing in hold. A top ballroom pro will always be able to feel what the celeb is doing, they also have mirrors to aid them if necessary.
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“I agree with what you say here, but as far as SCD goes, we are looking at what they can achieve in just a week, not on an ongoing basis.
As a dancer, you continue to learn and improve your skills all the time,never stop leatning, but the SDC celebs are beginners and will only be at a basic standard in the big scheme of things. The pro should be more than capable of knowing what needs work, even dancing in hold. A top ballroom pro will always be able to feel what the celeb is doing, they also have mirrors to aid them if necessary.”
“I agree with what you say here, but as far as SCD goes, we are looking at what they can achieve in just a week, not on an ongoing basis.
As a dancer, you continue to learn and improve your skills all the time,never stop leatning, but the SDC celebs are beginners and will only be at a basic standard in the big scheme of things. The pro should be more than capable of knowing what needs work, even dancing in hold. A top ballroom pro will always be able to feel what the celeb is doing, they also have mirrors to aid them if necessary.”
Yes, but kaycee and we were talking about pro dancers learning from other pro dancers - not the celebs.
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“Yes, but kaycee and we were talking about pro dancers learning from other pro dancers - not the celebs.”
“Yes, but kaycee and we were talking about pro dancers learning from other pro dancers - not the celebs.”
But surely the critique on ITT is aimed at the celebs ?. I am saying that at that basic standard, the partnering Pro will learn nothing new from the critique....I never learn anything new, it is all basic stuff, just aimed at viewers perhaps not so much in the know but eager to learn
I imagine they listen but then again by the time we see Ian's footage it's a couple of days old and probably not relevant to what's going on in the training room by then. Ditto Karen who is talking about the previous week's dances.
As for the judges ... doubt they take a lot of notice. Especially of Craig and Bruno.
I'm sure it's good to get outside feedback but too many opinions are just going to confuse your celeb. I think we had all the judges (not sure about Bruno) plus Ian and Karen banging on about Jay's face last year but Aliona didn't stress on it. She knew that wasn't the way to go with Jay. A lot of other pros might have pushed him into attempting to ham it up. Or tried to.
As for the judges ... doubt they take a lot of notice. Especially of Craig and Bruno.
I'm sure it's good to get outside feedback but too many opinions are just going to confuse your celeb. I think we had all the judges (not sure about Bruno) plus Ian and Karen banging on about Jay's face last year but Aliona didn't stress on it. She knew that wasn't the way to go with Jay. A lot of other pros might have pushed him into attempting to ham it up. Or tried to.
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“I agree with what you say here, but as far as SCD goes, we are looking at what they can achieve in just a week, not on an ongoing basis.
As a dancer, you continue to learn and improve your skills all the time,never stop learning, but the SDC celebs are beginners and will only be at a basic standard in the big scheme of things. The pro should be more than capable of knowing what needs work, even dancing in hold. A top ballroom pro will always be able to feel what the celeb is doing, they also have mirrors to aid them if necessary.”
“I agree with what you say here, but as far as SCD goes, we are looking at what they can achieve in just a week, not on an ongoing basis.
As a dancer, you continue to learn and improve your skills all the time,never stop learning, but the SDC celebs are beginners and will only be at a basic standard in the big scheme of things. The pro should be more than capable of knowing what needs work, even dancing in hold. A top ballroom pro will always be able to feel what the celeb is doing, they also have mirrors to aid them if necessary.”
I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but the very fact that they are looking to see what they can achieve in a week is the key.
Yes, a pro dancer can feel what the celeb is doing - in ballroom, not so possible in Latin. And yes, they have mirrors. But unless the mirrors are all 4 walls, there are always going to be "blind spots". It would be silly of any pro to ignore something pointed out by another professional, especially given the very limited timescale.
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“But surely the critique on ITT is aimed at the celebs ?. I am saying that at that basic standard, the partnering Pro will learn nothing new from the critique....I never learn anything new, it is all basic stuff, just aimed at viewers perhaps not so much in the know but eager to learn”
“But surely the critique on ITT is aimed at the celebs ?. I am saying that at that basic standard, the partnering Pro will learn nothing new from the critique....I never learn anything new, it is all basic stuff, just aimed at viewers perhaps not so much in the know but eager to learn”
Ian's critiques are not aimed at teaching the pro dancers, but simply to point out something that could be looked at further.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Ian's critiques are not aimed at teaching the pro dancers, but simply to point out something that could be looked at further.”
“Ian's critiques are not aimed at teaching the pro dancers, but simply to point out something that could be looked at further.”
Yep, he's just doing his job. On TV - for whatever audience and whoever cares to watch.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but the very fact that they are looking to see what they can achieve in a week is the key.
Yes, a pro dancer can feel what the celeb is doing - in ballroom, not so possible in Latin. And yes, they have mirrors. But unless the mirrors are all 4 walls, there are always going to be "blind spots". It would be silly of any pro to ignore something pointed out by another professional, especially given the very limited timescale.”
“I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but the very fact that they are looking to see what they can achieve in a week is the key.
Yes, a pro dancer can feel what the celeb is doing - in ballroom, not so possible in Latin. And yes, they have mirrors. But unless the mirrors are all 4 walls, there are always going to be "blind spots". It would be silly of any pro to ignore something pointed out by another professional, especially given the very limited timescale.”
Fully agree with you Kaycee. However the critique given is of such a basic level, I really can't believe that any of the pros would actually learn from it, or miss it in their own teaching of the celeb. My opinion of course, and I am talking ballroom not latin. When you are very experienced you can certainly feel when something is not as it should be, you don't actually need mirrors too much. You feel if a heel is missed or if the posture or frame is not as it should be, two bodies should be dancing as one. Maybe I'll make an effort to watch ITT at some point, I don't normally I have to say.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“
But unless the mirrors are all 4 walls, there are always going to be "blind spots". It would be silly of any pro to ignore something pointed out by another professional, especially given the very limited timescale.”
“
But unless the mirrors are all 4 walls, there are always going to be "blind spots". It would be silly of any pro to ignore something pointed out by another professional, especially given the very limited timescale.”
Very good points. If one pro thinks they can't ever learn from another, I'd think they had slithered beyond arrogance to the dark side
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Fully agree with you Kaycee. However the critique given is of such a basic level, I really can't believe that any of the pros would actually learn from it, or miss it in their own teaching of the celeb. My opinion of course, and I am talking ballroom not latin. When you are very experienced you can certainly feel when something is not as it should be, you don't actually need mirrors too much. You feel if a heel is missed or if the posture or frame is not as it should be, two bodies should be dancing as one. Maybe I'll make an effort to watch ITT at some point, I don't normally I have to say.”
“Fully agree with you Kaycee. However the critique given is of such a basic level, I really can't believe that any of the pros would actually learn from it, or miss it in their own teaching of the celeb. My opinion of course, and I am talking ballroom not latin. When you are very experienced you can certainly feel when something is not as it should be, you don't actually need mirrors too much. You feel if a heel is missed or if the posture or frame is not as it should be, two bodies should be dancing as one. Maybe I'll make an effort to watch ITT at some point, I don't normally I have to say.”
I couldn't agree more about the ballroom. A teacher can soon spot a missed heel lead, or a heel instead of a toe when dancing ballroom with a student. Even a judge watching a crowded competition floor can usually spot the wrong footwork even if he/she can only see the head and shoulders.
But it is harder with Latin when so much is out of hold and mirrors are more useful. My preferred manner to teach is to make my student dance alone so I can see exactly what he/she is doing, but that wouldn't really be possible with the majority of scd celebs .
I've always thought that the Ian and Karen commentaries are for the public, to give more insight and kind of educate us what we are seeing. So the dancers probably know what can be improved very well and don't need someone to tell it to them plus I really don't believe they have the time to watch ir anyway.
I also do believe that off screen there are a team of choreographers that help each of the pros with their dance. I don't believe that they are left on their own to choreograph each dance.
I also do believe that off screen there are a team of choreographers that help each of the pros with their dance. I don't believe that they are left on their own to choreograph each dance.
Originally Posted by Amaluna:
“I've always thought that the Ian and Karen commentaries are for the public, to give more insight and kind of educate us what we are seeing. So the dancers probably know what can be improved very well and don't need someone to tell it to them plus I really don't believe they have the time to watch ir anyway.
I also do believe that off screen there are a team of choreographers that help each of the pros with their dance. I don't believe that they are left on their own to choreograph each dance.”
“I've always thought that the Ian and Karen commentaries are for the public, to give more insight and kind of educate us what we are seeing. So the dancers probably know what can be improved very well and don't need someone to tell it to them plus I really don't believe they have the time to watch ir anyway.
I also do believe that off screen there are a team of choreographers that help each of the pros with their dance. I don't believe that they are left on their own to choreograph each dance.”
The official line has always been that the pro's choreograph the Basic Ten themselves, and are allowed/are given outside help on the remaining "speciality" dances- the Argentine Tango, Charleston, Salsa (and Am Smooth, but I doubt the pro's would need help there except maybe with lifts).
It's only a hunch, but I reckon the idea is that the point of the show is that it's just the pro that does the choreo on the Basic Ten. Although I'm sure the reality is that they must sometimes hit a wall ideas-wise and get a bit of informal help if they asked a pro-friend.
1 of 2
