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  • Strictly Come Dancing
Is Strictly voting a little bit racist?
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Monaogg
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by inothernews:
“It will, in my opinion, only hurt the poorer dancers.

And that is why those who would like to think race isn't an issue (well, in one sense we'd all like to think that) will come back with 'Melvin, Tameka, and Naga weren't that good, so it proves nothing'.

But, (as I said on another thread!!!!) a small percentage (and I really do hope it is a small percentage) will never vote for a black contestant, because they vote BNP (and they have been known to win council seats in the past- at one point one was even a member of the London Assembly) Now, in a tight situation were you have 3 contestants at the bottom, separated by less than 1,000 votes between them, it really could be a difference, because all BNP voters, plus a few (not tarring everyone with the same brush) UKIP supporters are NEVER going to give the black contestant their vote.

That won't be a problem for Ore, as he is good enough that that small percentage of people won't be able to land him in the danger zone. For me, it's too early to know if he deserves to win this year, BUT, if he is good enough, he will win (as in, hopefully not enough BNP type people that could harm his chances) but, in the early stages, with lots of people to vote for (so those in bottom 2 or 3 will have less votes than those in bottom 2 or 3 in, say, 6 weeks time, a small swing could easily be the difference between 3rd bottom, and safe, or dance off.

So- conclusion- If good enough Ore could easily win (not enough BNP type people to stop him), but in early rounds poorer dancers could be disadvantaged over white poor dancers...

And of course, if Ore gets to final week, or even wins, some people will say, 'There you are. Told you there wasn't a problem, and anyone who says there is is just trying to make mischief'.”

The biggest problem with your hypothesis is the voting system itself.

People vote to save someone. Not to evict. Voting on strictly is a positive choice rather than a negative one.

If you just went on ability I would have save Tamika over Laura, but every other person who lost in the Dance off was the weaker dancer of the two.
Muggsy
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“If Danny wins, who can guarantee it is not because people think Oti is awesome and this benefits Danny by default.”

Indeed.

I was a strong Natalie supporter and voted for her all the way through her year. So far, I prefer Danny to Ore (though I was really looking forward to him taking part and had never heard of Danny) and I think Oti's choreography has a lot to do with it. I'm just not a fan of the Clifton "throw in the kitchen sink, and the washing machine, and the fridge, and there's probably a nanosecond that I can fit the iron into too" style of choreography.

However, if I'm accused of showing bias towards the white contestant, all I can do is deny it. I can't prove it's not a manifestation of bias because I'll be told it's unconscious so I'm unaware of it.
inothernews
18-10-2016
My point is that in the early weeks, a small number of people (say it was 2,000) can influence things more (because there are 15 people to vote for in the first week) The further you get in to the contest, the less influence 2,000 people could have (because 2,000 votes isn't going to make any odds if you are down to 5 or 6 contestants sharing a million votes between them (i've no idea how many people vote each week, but you get the picture) So, the further you get in to the process, the less danger it could have an influence.
Monaogg
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by inothernews:
“My point is that in the early weeks, a small number of people (say it was 2,000) can influence things more (because there are 15 people to vote for in the first week) The further you get in to the contest, the less influence 2,000 people could have (because 2,000 votes isn't going to make any odds if you are down to 5 or 6 contestants sharing a million votes between them (i've no idea how many people vote each week, but you get the picture) So, the further you get in to the process, the less danger it could have an influence.”

The free on-line votes have made a small difference to who is saved of the duffers.

However, I can see no reason on earth why anyone would bother to target their racism at Strictly. Nor have I seen any evidence of this anywhere.
bornfree
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“The biggest problem with your hypothesis is the voting system itself.

People vote to save someone. Not to evict. Voting on strictly is a positive choice rather than a negative one.

If you just went on ability I would have save Tamika over Laura, but every other person who lost in the Dance off was the weaker dancer of the two.”

So vote to save is to ignore the 'Other'. Convenient. IMO Naga was not weaker than Anastacia and if Tameka hadn't been in the bottom two few weeks ago, against Anastacia she would have been the stronger dancer. Just saying.
bornfree
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by inothernews:
“My point is that in the early weeks, a small number of people (say it was 2,000) can influence things more (because there are 15 people to vote for in the first week) The further you get in to the contest, the less influence 2,000 people could have (because 2,000 votes isn't going to make any odds if you are down to 5 or 6 contestants sharing a million votes between them (i've no idea how many people vote each week, but you get the picture) So, the further you get in to the process, the less danger it could have an influence.”

I totally get where you're coming from. So if the 2000 don't like a certain contestant, they can really ruin it for someone who they don't like.
LaughingSock
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by bornfree:
“So vote to save is to ignore the 'Other'. Convenient. IMO Naga was not weaker than Anastacia and if Tameka hadn't been in the bottom two few weeks ago, against Anastacia she would have been the stronger dancer. Just saying.”

Not on the night, but in the DO she certainly had the weaker dance.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by BeyonceCastle:
“Nope.

If it were racist Colin, Denise, Louis would not have been finalists. Ooh and Patrick nearly.
And Anita.

Tameka was victim to being mid table, that's all. Nothing else to see here.

Edit: cannot believe I forgot Alesha. And Simon won the tour and the freestyle imho

Naga should have been in the DO and gone tonight. That's not racism. It's who can dance or entertain.”

Whilst I agree with much of this. I think it's pretty impossible to tell what goes in the minds of viewers as a whole and especially with a positive (i.e. a vote to keep people in) rather than a negative (a vote to kick a person out e.g Big Brother eviction votes) vote. It might be hard to determine even to a person themself why they vote or wouldn't vote for someone and who gets priority over whom so it's entirely possible that a person would prioritise a white person over a person of colour and a nice looking man over a woman and possibly not even be fully aware of why they're doing it. Looking at how Ore is being labelled as arrogant -(he just comes across as confident with a bit of style and a sense of humour to me) - is that reading a bit racist or is it a cultural thing that he comes from a sub-culture that is more expressive than the mainstream.

It's pretty hard to tell especially since few people will tell that are racist and some maybe to some extent they're not even aware of.

I used to dismiss this talk in the past but there is a tendancy for POC to do worse on SCD than their whiter counterparts.

Could there be other reasons? yes of course Ricky Whittle for example it was possible a lack of time leading to a lack of characterisation of the dances and a lack of presence on ITT for example and a lot are entertainmers and subject to the dirty ringar accusations as are most entertainers as opposed to sports people, some were middle aged and might suffer predjuice (sorry sucky spelling and no spell checker) in favour of the young enforced by possible 'oldie but goodie' overmarking (also with Patrick I think there was an agenda to get a female winner that year after two male ones in the two years before and he less contemption for the ladies than the younger hearthrob Ashley Taylor Dawson - but that could just be me) and Colin Jackson was preceived to less on a journey than Darren Gough who undoubtedly did a less sucky showdance.

Are there greater issues to do with racism requiring more serious examination? - hell yes.

I just raise it because I'm not sure it's as cut and dried on either side as people think it is.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by Sherlock_Holmes:
“Think the only problem for people here is that the wrong black person went home.”

Agreed I'd have ditched Naga last week too and held onto Tamika for at least this week but at the end of the day - when you vote postively but the result is negative then you get unpredictable results i.e it's more about whom people remember and actively care about rather those they particularly dislike or think have 'delighted them for long enough'.
bornfree
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by katmobile:
“Whilst I agree with much of this. I think it's pretty impossible to tell what goes in the minds of viewers as a whole and especially with a positive (i.e. a vote to keep people in) rather than a negative (a vote to kick a person out e.g Big Brother eviction votes) vote. It might be hard to determine even to a person themself why they vote or wouldn't vote for someone and who gets priority over whom so it's entirely possible that a person would prioritise a white person over a person of colour and a nice looking man over a woman and possibly not even be fully aware of why they're doing it. Looking at how Ore is being labelled as arrogant -(he just comes across as confident with a bit of style and a sense of humour to me) - is that reading a bit racist or is it a cultural thing that he comes from a sub-culture that is more expressive than the mainstream.

It's pretty hard to tell especially since few people will tell that are racist and some maybe to some extent they're not even aware of.

I used to dismiss this talk in the past but there is a tendancy for POC to do worse on SCD than their whiter counterparts.

Could there be other reasons? yes of course Ricky Whittle for example it was possible a lack of time leading to a lack of characterisation of the dances and a lack of presence on ITT for example and a lot are entertainmers and subject to the dirty ringar accusations as are most entertainers as opposed to sports people, some were middle aged and might suffer predjuice (sorry sucky spelling and no spell checker) in favour of the young enforced by possible 'oldie but goodie' overmarking (also with Patrick I think there was an agenda to get a female winner that year after two male ones in the two years before and he less contemption for the ladies than the younger hearthrob Ashley Taylor Dawson - but that could just be me) and Colin Jackson was preceived to less on a journey than Darren Gough who undoubtedly did a less sucky showdance.

Are there greater issues to do with racism requiring more serious examination? - hell yes.

I just raise it because I'm not sure it's as cut and dried on either side as people think it is.”

I wish I could be as eloquent as you. A well rounded post that makes a lot of sense.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by AntoniaA:
“Rubbish. Tameka is popular with everyone, she was in the dance off because the public thought she was safe. Happens with someone every year.

Last week's elimination was unfortunate, however I think Anastacia would have stayed even if there had been a dance off. Melvin wasn't very good, lovely guy but the least charismatic dancer. I'd never heard of him before Strictly but now I know him I'll watch out for him.”

I think that does sum it up least charismatic dancer - and less likely to get the votes because of it. I predicted he'd go because they other dancers at the bottom end - were the last placed which is often a magnet for a wave of sympathy votes and Ed also was a lot better than a lot of people were excepting him to be even though obviously not great. The judge and Tamika were big personalities and whilst Melvin was bland which for a DJ you might not have expected.

Tamika was a bit of a shock though but my mother always says the middle of the leaderboard is often the most dangerous place to be. At this stage the top is safe (and even if you do end up in the DO you are likely to come up against someone worse like Laura did) and the bottom tends to get the votes from people saving them.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by londongirlGre:
“Black people rarely win TV competitions in the UK. Yes, I know that some black contestants on Strictly have gone far, but they haven't won. On the X-Factor, there has only been one black winner, IIRC. On The Apprentice, there has only been one black winner. The GBBO, as far as I know, there hasn't been a black winner.”

Wasn't the last one of Indian descent though?
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by duckylucky:
“So do all these people calling racism think black , less black , nearly back , almost white people are all brilliant dancers then ?
Some black people are crap dancers just like some white people are crap dancers .”

LOL - Michelle Williams certainly proved that not all black people are great dancers - pretty conclusively. Sorry was that a tad bitchy?
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by Zangief:
“the mirror did a piece on this

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/just-how-...y-come-8969815”

And oh christ it's bollocks - especially about Melvin. He got the boot because he was bland and kinda of mediocre and near the bottom of the leaderboard but not right at the bottom (which tends to get people voting) - end of really.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by penelopesimpson:
“Absolutely right. I would have voted for him to win if Erin hadn't pulled that farcical stunt.”

I'm not convinced - I've heard some say that Darren Gough was out polling Colin all the way through. People just liked the journey and blokey bloke falls in love with dancing narrative but yeah the dummies certainly didn't help. Nice own goal there Erin
Monaogg
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by katmobile:
“I think that does sum it up least charismatic dancer - and less likely to get the votes because of it. I predicted he'd go because they other dancers at the bottom end - were the last placed which is often a magnet for a wave of sympathy votes and Ed also was a lot better than a lot of people were excepting him to be even though obviously not great. The judge and Tamika were big personalities and whilst Melvin was bland which for a DJ you might not have expected.

Tamika was a bit of a shock though but my mother always says the middle of the leaderboard is often the most dangerous place to be. At this stage the top is safe (and even if you do end up in the DO you are likely to come up against someone worse like Laura did) and the bottom tends to get the votes from people saving them.”

Also, people would have voted to save Naga in greater numbers to keep her from the dance off the week Tamika went out.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by hansue:
“I usually buy The Sun but not tomorrow. Its an insult to us viewers.”

You do know that this is the paper that an entire CITY boycotted because of what they said about Hillsborough don't you?
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by fredster:
“It's also saying Tameka is fuming that she was not given exemption from the dance off because she had several injuries. They have opened a can of worms over that refusal to do the dance off.”

I did notice that she very obviiously exposed her strapped up leg during her final dance. I thought it was something to do with that but it's good to have it confirmed.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by lundavra:
“I get the feeling that there is quite a bit racism towards mixed race people from black people.

Black people are over-represented on Strictly this year, is that racism towards white people?”

I think sadly mixed race people tend to get it in the neck from racists of both skin colours one mixed race lady described people asking her black boyfriend what he was doing with a white girl.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by penelopesimpson:
“And definitely Irish people. And red-heads. And what about disabled people who haven't been represented at all?”

I think Jake and Greg are definately there representing the red-heads (gingers for the win?!)

I would say you're being an arse Pen but really that's like saying it's raining in Manchester.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by Bob_Knoobb:
“Did Kate Garraway not count? ”

LOL - does this make me bad. The way things are going on SCD - you do tend to get a few qualifications sadly poor Jade Johnson who ruined her career because of it. Ironically also a lady of colour so sort of relevant.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by Sherlock_Holmes:
“Both Patrick and Simon were in multiple dance-offs though. And Louis had the whole young Olympian boyish vote going on.”

Plus the survival of the male cutey factor. I think there are a lot of things that do and don't influence voters and I do think race is one of them in some quarters. Quite a lot of my grandparents general are pretty racist sadly.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by duckylucky:
“I am reading the thread and wracking my brains and just cannot place a Simon ? Who was Simon ?”

Simon Webb -member of Blue, two series ago, partnered by Kristina (didn't date her afterwards - sorry Kris - loved you but it did happen a couple of times) made the final but didn't win - lost out to Caroline Flack.
Monaogg
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by katmobile:
“LOL - does this make me bad. The way things are going on SCD - you do tend to get a few qualifications sadly poor Jade Johnson who ruined her career because of it. Ironically also a lady of colour so sort of relevant.”

I was rooting for her that year.
katmobile
18-10-2016
Originally Posted by Hitstastic:
“I predicted Melvin would go out in the first week, and he did.

That wasn't because he was black. It was because he was one of the least well known celebrities taking part.

Point being the public are more likely to vote for the celebrities they know and love regardless of how well or badly they dance.

Laura and Tameka aren't household names so it's plausible that they didn't get the votes because they don't have a "fan base" so to speak.

At the end of the day, Strictly is a popularity contest dressed up to look like a dancing competition.

Also Len had the deciding vote so he could quite easily have got rid of Laura but he must've thought Laura had more potential going forward.”

I disagree with the statement that SCD is a popularity contest dressed up as a dancing competition - it's a dancing competition with popularity contest elements.

If you look at whose won - one have has ever been hopeless or at least not by the standards of the year - Chris Hollins may not have been great - but this was the year of Jo Wood, Joe Calzage, Richard Dunwoody, Rav Wilding, Lynda Bellingham and Craig Kelly - and even some of the ones who had their moments like Phil Tuffnel and Natalie Cassidy weren't great. Ali Bastian wasn't a great latin dancer either.

If it was a popularity contest you'd be seeing some people who were truly terrible lift the gilterball and also people vote for dancers they enjoy this may not be the most technically profficient or the judges favourites but they are all dancers.
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