Absolutely the most extreme extrapolation possible.

NOBODY has said Strictly viewers are racist. People are saying that ONE FACTOR AMONG MANY in making a positive voting choice is probably race and that the race factor is probably an unconscious one.

These levels of projection, defensiveness and denial are in no way responding to points that have actually been made. They are straw men.

Is Richard Arnold not out? I ask because I was pondering the fate of gay contestants and the fact that only Erin seems to be able to resist the show's determination to herd them down the so-called comedy route of having them shot out of cannons, dressed as crabs or kissing cows.

oops, yes I forgot Richard. 4.2% then.

(I think most of Erin's routines for Richard were comedy, I just think it was more subtle than this show's used to. Which is to say, still not very subtle at all, but not at "being whacked around the head with a frying pan" levels. Camp is one of the things I think that some pros get at a cultural level and which is totally alien to others. Although some of them land on it quite frequently by mistake. Erin I think is one of the ones that gets it).

No. The fact that there are several black winners / runners up means the statistics about length of stay are not relevant as people usually can only get voted out if they are in the mid/low end of the table and eventual semi-finalists rarely end up in that position unless there are massive ties. And lets remember that when this happened even Aleshia Dixon was in the dance off and she is probably amongst the best dancers ever on Strictly

That argument is like saying the US doesn't have a problem with racism because Obama is president. It is patently rubbish. Obviously there is an issue in general and that affected how he was treated as president and voting patterns. All it means is that someone can win despite the racism not that it doesn't exist.

But nobody has discussed saving them. You imagined that bit. and ran with it - quite a distance too.

If Ore gets voted out next, maybe the racism conspiracy theory might have a bit of credit. As it is, three rubbish dancers have gone and their colour isn't an issue.

Well..... I wouldn't say Tameka was 'rubbish'.

She was middling and as others have said that's a dangerous position early on in the series.

I think you have to remember that yes, Alesha was in the bottom 2 but it was also the week Matt di Angelo went for his nice little sit down in the foxtrot, had a general melt down and found himself at the bottom of the leaderboard. The Matt and Flavia fans were nothing if not determined to lift them out the bottom 2 ... and with Gethin being top of the leaderboard that week, it left both Alesha and Letitia as the ones most likely to be bottom (and I seem to remember the general feeling being that Letitia in the dance off with anyone other than Matt was a gonner). The week after in a 3 couple semi final, she was the only one safe.

Sometimes, the results have to be looked at in the context of the series they were in and the events of that particular week rather than just 'x is <whatever>, therefore the reason they were vunerable was because of <whatever>'.

It's a shame when discussions about unconscious bias (which is an interesting thing) get framed in an -ism because people immediately go on the defensive instead of reflecting on how they might positively discriminate in unconscious ways.

If you've ever had to sit on a (job) interview panel and can't agree with your fellow panellists about which candidate out of several similarly qualified and / or experienced ones should get the job, the discussion / argument can be very revealing.

Although I completely agree with gorgalon (they've said it all already; it can't be quantified, but it's still worth discussing), the thread title (and "are viewers of X racist?" headlines in the media) poisoned this discussion from the outset.

I think that's a red herring. Really there is no need to get defensive even if a thread is directly about racism and unconscious bias is related to racism anyway.

It is counterproductive to pander to those that are defensive anyway as they don't want to hear and it makes others self-censor and distorts the discussion. I wouldn't censor myself on a thread about homosexual rights because someone feels uncomfortable discussing homosexuality, or a thread about religion because some people feel that their views should be "respected" - and people addressing racism shouldn't feel they have to pander to those who are are uncomfortable because it is discussed. That's just another form of censorship.

Good points.

I would say the vast majority of people are not racist and would actively try not to show bias when in everyday situations. Probably why people get defensive over the Racism tag. The unconscious bias is harder to argue against, because one is unaware.

One thing that often gets overlooked in such discussions is racism between Black & Asian people. Where my husband is from, this used to be a huge problem, with regular run ins between gangs of Asian & Black youths. Often the assumption is that racism is always and only something caucasians display.

So when the subject of this thread is about how the voting is racist, it's not saying that those that do the voting are racist? Just the votes are?

I'm assuming you haven't read the thread - or indeed even the rest of my post that you're quoting from - so I won't repeat the framing analysis or the talk of unconscious bias for the gazillionth time other than to say that yes, a system can have racist aspects without the individuals within it being deliberately racist.

If you were prepared to take that on board and think about it and what it might mean, then you might just contribute to making the system a little bit less likely to be racist.

Wouldn't that be grand?

It's been said by several that Tameka should not have been eliminated. But she was, so do tell how how she could have been saved without viewers consciously making a point of voting for her instead of their other favourites..

Exactly . Its vote to save not to eliminate . Personally I voted for who I thought I would like to see again . I voted for Naga as I thought she just needed a few weeks to relax . Voted for Danny because he is just amazing . Voted for Greg because I like watching him . Voted for Daisy because I love her attitude

Tameke never entered my head but neithet did Laura or Anastacia . Why on earth would I go out of my way to vote for Tameke if I wasn't pushed to see her again ?

I'd say the opposite. That most of us are racist and believe in stereotypes and need to remind ourselves of this from time to time of this and try to do better and be fairer. If we don't then little changes. If someone is in denial or defensive about the charge then they aren't being self-aware.

We all bring along our baggage of childhood and the assumptions around is in school and the media, it effects us all just to a greater or lesser extent.

Do you think most of us are also sexist, ageist (both against the young and old), homophobic, xenophobic, snobbish, regionalist and guilty of religious discrimination?

Yes - to greater and lesser extents. It's like we are all liars and someone who says they aren't is either lying or deluded. None of us is perfect. If we think we are above reproach in one area we are in denial. We can all improve in all areas of our lives.

I agree, but it's the singling out of racial prejudice and its discussion as if it influenced votes independently of all the other prejudices, biases and presumptions we're influenced by, that I find hard to accept.

Certainly nobody's perfect, but that doesn't mean everyone's bigoted. That's a bit of an extreme length to go to.

What a bleak view of humanity, completely at odds with my personal experience.

But i don't agree it's singled out. I think some people are just more sensitive to the charge. If someone said I was being sexist or homophobic I'd think about if what I said could be taken that way and if it was. I wouldn't start on a rant about the fact that I could never be those things. And nobody said those aren't effecting the vote. I think they do.

I didn't say everyone is bigoted. I said we all have biases and hold assumptions. That's a very different thing. There is a very wide spectrum on all prejudices from bigotry, to ignorance to holding stereotypes and making rapid judgements based on lack of context and understanding, unconscious biases and even internalised ones,

I hold a different perspective. I think it's hopeful that we can all mature, improve ourselves and change. And I think people and society as a whole are getting better (with some hiccups) as we acknowledge our flaws and work on them.

Thank goodness.

However, encouraging the wanted behaviour works a lot better than emphasising what people are doing wrong.