Totally agree with both of you.

Until I read this thread it had not even dawned on me that the 2 that have gone from Strictly are black. My mind just doesn't work that way.

I really liked Melvin, never heard of him before, but he just wasn't a good dancer. I would like to have seen him given a chance to improve but sadly that was not to be.

I could not stand Tameka, not because of her colour but because of her personality. She reminds me of Kellie last year who I also could not stand and, obviously, Kellie is white. I just don't like attention seeking people.

As another poster pointed out Tameka won an acting award and there must have been white actors up for the same award. Personally I think she is a terrible actress but that is true of most of the Eastenders cast

Haha. I'm in my fifties and my undergrad and postgrad qualifications are in literature, but nice try!

Ok, think of it this way. It's established that race bias plays a part in recruitment. Study after study has shown that recruiters are significant percentage points less likely to interview candidates with black or brown-sounding names than white-sounding names, EVEN WHEN THE CVs ARE IDENTICAL. This often comes as a complete shock to the recruiters, who do not consider themselves prejudiced at all. They are not doing it on purpose: it's an unconscious thing, probably based on internalising various stereotypes over many years. But it's established that it happens without question.

Why is it so hard to accept the possibility that the same process may happen with Strictly voters? That when they are choosing a favourite to vote for, they may unconsciously pass over black contestants in exactly the same way? It's not as though it's deliberate. It's not as though people are actively wanting to get rid of black contestants. But it seems totally disingenuous to suggest that black contestants don't have to overcome these extra hurdles to persuade viewers to make them their favourites, just as job applicants with black or brown-sounding names have extra hurdles in getting onto interview shortlists.

I find it a bit depressing to think of it this way, sure. But I find it much more depressing that people would rather shout the topic down or get outraged because they feel personally accused of racism. If we want to live in a post-racial paradise, as I am sure everyone commenting here does, then we should ask ourselves the questions.

To be fair, the public also quite liked loud Alison.

I haven't read every post, so apologies if this point has already been made.

I don't think - and I doubt - that anyone's excluding the possibility at an individual level, however I'd argue the stats don't bear out any suggestion of consistent racism overall. I'm certainly not going to analyse it series by series, but I'd be willing to bet that black and white dancers get voted out roughly proportionately to how many take part, and I suspect that's what people are referring to when they say there's no racism.

You're right, a knee-jerk dismissal of the suggestion of racism never helps anyone, but neither does self-flagellation over it if there's really no evidence for it.

Guarantee if Ore has a bad or average week he'll be in the bottom 2 - in fact I'm predicting a Naga vs Ore b2 next week

Good morning, Aggs . True, but I think we have to include 'Aljaz factor' in for that partnership, if not, sure to have gone much earlier.

Ex Factor has been running for 13 series so one black winner is a higher number than would be expected statistically.

You think so? Seems to me there's a lot of appreciation for Gorka on these boards too.

Though, the comparison is one I've been thinking about as Tameka grated on my every last nerve off the dance floor but I really like Alison and have done since BB days. The only logical conclusion is that I'm an unconsciously regionalist Brummie.

Your post reflects my own perceptions of this.

So, if a celeb does badly it's because no one likes them - but if they do well it's because people like their pro?

How do you work out that statistically? Have you really gone back and checked the percentage of each race in the show over the last 13 years?

I think it would be hard to argue that xenophobia isn't playing a part in the X Factor by the way. Statistically there are very few foreign participants - but to even get in a foreign participant has to be above average and yet my perception is they tend to go before less talented singers and face lack of public support.

I don't understand why it is controversial in the 21st century to acknowledge that racism, xenophobia and homophobia exist. It's a sad sign that we are going backwards (or stalling ) that people aren't even prepared to even acknowledge issues exist and the defensiveness is just a little too Freudian and bizarre.

Racist voting? Don't think so. Here's a list of the black/mixed race/brown contestants for all series and the week they were eliminated:

Series 1 – 8 contestants
Veronia Joseph - week 4
Martyn Offiah - week 6

Series 2 – 10 dontestants
Denise Lewis - runner up

Series 3 – 12 contestants
Jaye Jacobs - week 2
Colin Jackson - runner up

Series 4 – 14 contestants
Mica Parris - week 2
DJ Spoony - week 3
Mark Ramprakash - winner

Series 5 – 13 contestants
John Barnes - week 8
Alesha Dixon - winner

Series 6 – 16 contestants
Dom Warrington - week 5
Heather Small - week 8

Series 7 – 16 contestants
Jade Johnson - withdrew week 9

Series 8 – 14 contestants
Goldie week 1
Jimi Mistry - week 6
Michelle Williams - week 7

Series 9 – 14 contestants
Audley Harrison - week 7
Chelsee Healey - runner up

Series 10 – 14 contestants
Colin Salmon - week 5
Louis Smith - winner

Series 11 – 15 contestants
Patrick Robinson - week 12
Natalie Gumede - runner up

Series 12 – 15 contestants
Alison Hammond - week 7
Sunetra Sarka - week 10
Simon Webbe - runner up

Series 13 – 15 contestants
Anthony Agogo - week 3
Ainslie Harriott - week 5
Jamelia - week 9
Anita Rani - week 12

Seems a far spread of both contestants and the success they had.

no

people end up in the dance off because they didnt get enough votes

its that simple

when there are so many couples dancing at once the middle of the table ALWAYS gets forgotten - voters assume they are safe and you often get 2 mid table couples in the dance off

colour of peoples skin NEVER enters my head when voting - if fact, it rarely enters my head at all - if I like someone, I like them - regardless

think it says more about the OPs way of thinking tbh but thats just my opinion

I think it's unfortunate that two black contestants have gone out in the first two weeks but I think it's too simplistic to put it down to race. Melvin was predicted by most to be in the dance off last week; he had two weak dances and wasn't particularly known to much of the audience. It was unfortunate that he didn't get to dance again when he might have improved. It was the producers who made that decision, personally I would have let him dance this week and have a double elimination.
This week the dance off was pretty much dictated by the actions of the judges. They have overmarked in the early rounds leaving themselves with little room for manoeuvre, the quality of the dances this week meant that there were a number of ties which meant that people in the middle of the board were vulnerable. Some contestants towards the bottom seem safe for the moment ; Ed brings joy, Lesley is a trouper and Anastacia was likely to either get a sympathy vote or would suffer a backlash. I thought Naga, Laura,Anastacia, Tameka, The Judge and as the real shock, Greg, could have fallen into the bottom two. I wasn't surprised therefore to see Laura and Tameka there. Personally I would have kept Tameka, even though I'm not a fan. I thought Laura was heavy legged and the lifts laboured. It was the judges who chose otherwise and I'm sure they are not motivated by race and I'm certain the audience are not - after all they kept Naga in despite having many reasons not to.

Yes, but respectfully, how many got to their positions without being in the bottom 2 numerous times and thus saved by the judges' votes.

For e.g. Heather Small only finished at week 8 on 'saves', as she was in the bottom 2 almost every week until her elimination. The same goes for Jamelia who was bottom 2 in the first week of the public votes, and many more times thereafter.

Series 1-5 were decided on scores only - as were series 8&9. No dance off required.

I don't know the answer to that because I haven't studied the statistics to that extent.

It's irrelevant to the current situation because those who have been eliminated so far have been in the dance off once. So far the only two who could have been in the dance off twice by next week will be Anastacia and Laura and race certainly wouldn't be a factor there.

It will take five or six more weeks before we could even attempt to make any judgement on racism in this series. Votes for individuals are cast or not cast for a variety of reasons. So far those in the bottom two have just been one person who wasn't good and one who was marmite with the viewers and that's all that can be said.

Unfortunately some people see racism at every opportunity, even when it's fact that there is none.

Spot on. For me it's about the inevitability that the black contestants WILL drop into the Dance Off despite being higher up on the judges' scoring. It happens year after year. Made me chortle to see Spoony, Heather and Jamelia (and numerous others) appear in a specious attempt to disprove "the bleedin' obvious" racial bias - which the BBC tacitly admits in devising its scoring system.

Don't forget the most famous one; Celebrity Big Brother 2007.

Shilpa Shetty won and Jermaine Jackson finished second.

There is a lot to what you say, but the question is, "is the voting on SCD ..... Racist?"

To which I would answer no, I honestly think given the evidence, that ethnic minority participants, proportionally, do really well if they dance well.

So I don't think when deciding whether to give vote to someone ethnicity is a primary factor in voting.

If they don't dance as well as a white person then it may be that it is just that they are not as well known.

Just like many other non Eastenders viewers I had never heard of Tameka, I don't know to this day what Melvin does, did, and Ore was unknown to me before the programme.

The problem may be happenening, not at the time that votes are cast, but way way back, to the time when jobs are being allocated, acknowledged this year in the Oscars so white controversy this year.

To answer the question about SCD no I don't think there is any racism on voters part, I didn't vote for Melvin or Tameka because I care more about others in the competition.

Possibly because I don't know them, but more likey because I didn't like their dancing( Melvin) and wasn't that keen on their personality ( Tameka).

Now if the voters had been given a vote in the dance off once Laura and Tameka had danced, I would have chosen Tameka as I thought she did better.

Incidentally I had never heard of Laura before the programme and haven't voted for her either as I don't really rate her dancing.

I think it's more to do with them both being shit.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainme...cid=spartandhp

Ha ha. What I meant was a popular pro helps and in this case Gorka is good looking, but since it's hs first year, probably no dedicated fan base, yet.