I'm wondering if the Iraq 3 were Gettrick, Stone and Nadia. Why did what happened in Iraq have any connection with 3 girls being taken? Is it that Gettrick committed the atrocity and forced his (innocent, but there) companions into silence? Or they were all involved and bound together, Gettrick can also make use if this as and when he chooses.

I think Reed was probably a good guy, he maybe witnessed what the others did and sent money as he felt guilty for not being able to stop it or report it, Gettrick finds out and suicides him. I think Daniel was disgusted when he found he was paying for a transgender prostitute.

Stone is told to relay messages to Alice/Sophie, when she says how can you live with yourself, I think she may mean that he has helped frame an innocent man.

When Herz is framed for Sophie and Alice's abduction this is accompanied with a beating for Nadia (possibly no. 3) with a clear message with her teeth being knocked out, to keep her mouth shut. Did she lose her job back then, did she leave?

Re Sams smashed up Jag, did Matthew try to kill someone or himself after the fire? Did Sam take the blame? Insurance/legal reasons? Maybe that's why he says 'I went on medical leave for him'?

My Sky+ Box has to be at least 8yo and I can recover deleted programs. It's a tab in the Planner. Go have a look. Might just change your life!

BIB 1 - We already know that 2 of the Iraq 3 were Stone and Reed. Barzani named them and said Reed was sending guilt money for what he and Stone did to his sister.

BIB 2 - Daniel told Julien that he'd found out why his father was sending money to Barzani and that it made him sick to his guts or wtte.

BIB 3 - As far as I can see, Stone is the highest ranking of the lot. I don't see him being the one to take orders from a subordinate.

BIB 4 - Good idea that maybe Matthew smashed Sam's Jag with Sam taking the blame, but I think what he says is, "I almost lost my job because of him."

I must have missed that bit. When was his Jag (which was identified early on as a long-term restoration project) smashed up?

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[quote=Aurora13;84534079]I

Gettrick is very obviously the sociopath and he abducted the girls. Why those particular girls? He has a type but were they adopted privately via Army cover - up of sexual activity in combat arena? The mother who committed suicide has bright ginger hair! Was he involved in placing Lena with a family he knew before he then abducted her. There is a reason why reference was only made to Sam DNA being tested.

[quote]

That's one thing I notice. Baptiste commented on how alike young Sophie And Alice were. They and Lena had dark hair. Many of the adult women in the cast have dark hair and a similar look.
Alice/Sophie in Switzerland has red hair. It could be purely for disguise or does it have a significance?

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/the-m...5-s-revelation interview with the writers..(about episode 5) All questions will be answered in the end

[quote=seawitch;84535453][quote=Aurora13;84534079]I

Gettrick is very obviously the sociopath and he abducted the girls. Why those particular girls? He has a type but were they adopted privately via Army cover - up of sexual activity in combat arena? The mother who committed suicide has bright ginger hair! Was he involved in placing Lena with a family he knew before he then abducted her. There is a reason why reference was only made to Sam DNA being tested.

[quote]

That's one thing I notice. Baptiste commented on how alike young Sophie And Alice were. They and Lena had dark hair. Many of the adult women in the cast have dark hair and a similar look.
Alice/Sophie in Switzerland has red hair. It could be purely for disguise or does it have a significance?[/QUOT I just thought it was a disguise? I dye my hair red, some women do.. She might not be a natural ginger? I do know a few families the mum has natural ginger hair, and not all their children do.. Quite a few actually.. I actually thought sophies mums hair looked like a wig

Like many of you, I've found myself going back and looking at the earlier episodes. One thing that is now bugging me is at the end of episode 2 where 'Alice' asks Stone how he can live with himself (wtte). It seems clear that he has done something pretty horrible but now I'm not so sure that it's to do with the abduction(s). When Stone follows her out in to the garden he is holding the photo of Herz and says 'the man in the photo?' and 'Alice' replies, 'yes, that's him'. It seems that she is confirming Herz as her abductor because that is why she was being shown the photos in the first place. But if Stone is involved in the abductions then why would he put the question to her. There was only the 2 of them in the garden so he didn't need to say it at all for the benefit of anyone else to hear that he was following the rules as such.

The more I think about it, the less convinced I am that whatever happened in Iraq, which I think involved Stone/Reed/Nadia, had nothing to do with the abductions which took place in 2003, some 12 years after the incident in Iraq.

They never said it was a restoration project. Sam said at one point he was going out to work on the car and Gemma said, "You'll never get it going again." Might imply a restoration project, but it was never actually said. When you see him uncover the car, it's obvious that the right front has been damaged in a collision of some sort.

What are the actual links we know about between the abductions and Iraq?
1. Henry Reed was in Iraq and sending guilt money for some atrocity - Sophie / Alice put flowers on his grave.
2. The Brigadier was in Iraq and we saw him have the garden conversation with Sophie / Alice. She obviously knew him, there was a warning to her in the turtle story and she identified the photo of the butcher. She asked how he could live with himself.
3. Nadia was attacked and we know she previously served with both Henry and Stone, although we don't know if it was in Iraq. Daniel Reed went to see her as she was mentioned in his fathers diaries.
4. Baptiste risked his life going to Iraq so he must have thought there was a link between what happened there and the abductions.

Any others anyone ?

We don't actually know what happened to the 9 year old sister in Iraq. The telling of the whole tale to Baptiste by Mirzi wasn't shown. We know something happened to her, but we don't know she is dead. Baptiste says to Stone "I know you killed that girl" wtte (does he know she died or was he trying to find out?) and Stone also talked about "what we did" with ref to Iraq.

A few people have proposed that Eve and / or her sister are middle eastern. Could he - or someone in his troop, have fathered one or both of them in Iraq, brought the girls back and brought them up ? Could one of them be the 9 year old sister ? There is no real mention of their mother apart from the "alabaster skin" conversation with Eve when she says "do you mean mum?" Wtte

What do people think ?

That's odd because when I rewatched 1 - 3 yesterday, it said episode 1 was only available till 9 pm last night.

[quote=seawitch;84535453][quote=Aurora13;84534079]I

Gettrick is very obviously the sociopath and he abducted the girls. Why those particular girls? He has a type but were they adopted privately via Army cover - up of sexual activity in combat arena? The mother who committed suicide has bright ginger hair! Was he involved in placing Lena with a family he knew before he then abducted her. There is a reason why reference was only made to Sam DNA being tested.


I'm not so sure about the hair. When Alice/Sophie is standing next to Gemma, her hair is quite reddish as compared with Gemma's dark brown.

People have mentioned the fact that Remy Giroux and Gettrick look similar - could they be brothers? That would then provide the link between Gettrick and Sophie. Also, Gettrick could have got that drill from the DIY store that Remy works at.

From what I read in that Den Of Geek article above, seems like the writers had trouble keeping up at times! It shows how wonderfully tied together it is when even the writers have had their moments where they need to step back and look at it again.

Regarding your point 3, when Daniel confronts Nadia in her shop he says that his father wrote in his diary every day without fail until Iraq in 1991 when the entries stopped. (He doesn't say if they started again when he came back from Iraq.) That suggests that Nadia features in the diaries before 1991 but may not have been in Iraq as he didn't record anything at all during that period. I don't think there has been any other mention of Nadia's time in the military, so we don't know if she was there. Ah ... actually we do know. After Eve visits Nadia in the butcher's shop, Brig. Stone comes to find Eve and as they leave she comments that he knows Mrs Herz and he replies 'I have had that pleasure. Back in Iraq she was a mess.' Hmm. In what sense did he 'know' her - does this have to do with her 'reputation' that she mentioned to Daniel? Anyway, she was indeed in Iraq, but did she and Henry serve in the same place?

There is also the photo in Stone's office which he is studying before Julien and then Daniel come to see him. As others have pointed out, there was a black man in the back row and a fair-haired woman in the middle row, but it was not clear enough to identify them. It's possible they were Henry Reed and Nadia, or just another red herring.

On point 4, Julien appears to have made the connection between Henry Reed and the abductions based on seeing the flowers that were probably left on his grave by 'Alice'. He then found out that Henry's son Daniel was also at Eckhausen and the following day learned that Daniel had left the base. I'm not sure how he knew Daniel had gone to Iraq; I suppose it would not be difficult to find out that Henry had served there, but it does seem an enormous leap to go all that way on a hunch (correct, as it turned out) that Daniel would be there. I think we have more to learn about this connection.

Still showing as having 17 days left as of 12:20 today.

I suppose, strictly speaking, there doesn't have to be any link between the Iraq events and the abductions. We have a group of people who are connected through the army and probably their time in Iraq.

What happened in 1991 may have consequences in 2003 and beyond, of course (deeds and knowledge of deeds that bind them together, perhaps), but could be entirely separate crimes. The writers have told us (if we trust them ) that the perpetrator has been revealed, so I'm not looking at Stone or Henry Reed in that (direct) context any more.

That said, as you've summarised, the people are connected.

I rewatched Stone's conversation with Sophie/Alice in the garden. There's a bit where he says, this [the sky, the world] must be strange '
"Like being able to see again" and she spits out, "I can see just fine. I always have" and they exchange a loaded look. He then tells the turtle story (two birds holding either end of the stick to show their friend the big wide world but the turtle, overcome by what is out there, opens his mouth and falls to the ground and shatters). It's all very chilling and points to Stone being one of her captors, but I wonder if he is actually trying to say: remember, we are your friends (he and Henry?), we got you out and now you need to help us in return by sticking to the story. Be grateful for what we've been able to do for you.

Did he do a deal with Gettrick? We'll keep your dirty secrets and cover the trail if you let her go? Maybe Henry wanted to blow the lid on everything and died for it.

Did her "after what you've done" mean the framing of an innocent man? Or was it allowing Gettrick to remain free and keep her (?) child? Or did she know about his deeds in Iraq? Silencing Henry? (Or am I completely wrong and he was totally involved? )

Baptiste goes to Iraq to find Daniel Reed. He wants to know more about his father Henry because Sophie/Alice visited his grave before killing herself in 2014 (cctv - petrol station - lost hours - florist). I think what he discovers there before Daniel is killed (?) is a lead to a whole other horror.

I can't remember if we learned why he thought Daniel was in Iraq, but it's 2 years later that he goes, so perhaps it was old fashioned police work, following a trail?

We assume that Gerrick was the one to take Sophie in France, could there not be another person involved who was already in France and this a wider group?.We keep seeing this link to Wolf, could there not be a leader of the pack? Perhaps a whole greater plan like in that film taken with a sex trade industry spanning multiple countries? Could be going off on a totally wrong tanget but you never know.

It could be my TiVo ?? Rather than iPlayer.

Alabaster is found in Egypt and the Middle East.

Indeed. Eve would fit with being 9 in 1991.

Is it possible that the terrible thing they did to the 9 year old girl was that she was raped? Maybe she was pregnant then died in child birth, could Eve or her sister be that child? Or perhaps she survived and Eve is her sisters mum really?? Hmmm

But what about Mirza Barzani's sister?

But one's French the other's English. ( not an impossibility - they could be half brothers) Maybe there was a love triangle going on between them. Perhaps Sophie and Gettrick were an item in London but she left him for Remy and moved to Paris..I've always suspected that Sophie mum knew who abducted her daughter.

I agree with the drill coming from the DIY store. Must have come in handy when Gettrick was adapting all those basements.

I agree with the writers. I'm more interested why the girls were abducted rather than who snatched them.

In one of the episodes Sam is working on the car. ( red/ burgundy) You can vaguely see that the front of the car is smashed up. We weren't shown the actual crash.