Hi, I am not new here but am locked out of my old account because the email is inaccessible

I am thinking ofsetting up dish or dishes to receive the following channels/languages in order of importance:
- French TNT and German FTA channels (essential)
- any other FTA European channels that are possible e.g. Hungarian or Italian
- IRIB channels from 13E
- 28.2E would be great but is not essential as I have Freeview (lite)

I have had TNTSAT in the past but now my receiver seems to be useless as I missed an important firmware update a few years ago (it is HD). Anyway, it was never that good and was restricted in many ways e.g. unable to export recordings, no EPG and no Diseq.

So I found a site suggesting the idea of having a Wave T55 dish with LNBs for 5W, 9E, 13E, 19.2E and 28.2E to be able to get all the above channels, but now I have seen the thread stating that the French Television channels will go from 5W soon (will it definitely happen?)

I would have liked to avoid another restricted French brick, and thought I could do that with a combination from 5W, 9E and others. Does anyone have any ideas for a set up for me? Are people getting a French EPG these days? Are Fransat recordings encrypted? What about BIS? Could I put a Fransat card in a Linux box (there are mixed answers to this online), not for card-sharing but so that I can have one receiver for different channels? Would a Fransat recorder encrypt FTA channels from other countries?

Thanks for any ideas.

Hi,
The simplest and cheapest if you have already a dish aimed at 19.2E (Astra 1) would be to buy a new TNTSAT receiver.
It would allow you to receive TNTSAT and all FTA channels from Astra 1 (and up to at least 3 other satellites if you have a multisatellite installation).

Regarding your existing TNTSAT receiver, all models have at least DiSEqC 1.0 since more than 5 years (when TNTSAT introduced the "canal ready" label), so it's very surprising that yours does not have DiSEqC if it's a HD model that you have used since less than 5 years ...
What is the model of your receiver ?

Regarding the possibility to receive french FTA channels from other satellites, no one will be available at 5W from nov. 22nd onwards.
The only remaining ones will be from 9E (TF1, M6, W9, NT1, 6ter, TMC), from Astra 1 (LCP, i>tele, BFM TV) and from Hotbird (Arte HD).
The public channels on 5W (F2, F3, F4, FÔ, franceinfo: ) will be encrypted from nov. 22nd.

Regarding export of recordings, TNTSAT and FRANSAT records are encrypted and can only be read by the set which recorded.

Bis could be an option as it uses standard Viaccess receivers which generally do not encrypt recordings but you have to renew subscription every year. The basic package is cheap (from 5€/month) but the picture quality is not terrific as Bis puts a lot of channels in one transponder.

Thanks for your reply, Marceljack.


I am not so keen on buying another TNTSAT or FRANSAT receiver as mine was quite expensive (400 Euros?) and is probably my worst ever purchase relative to price. Do they even have an EPG yet? However, I see your point that it would be cheapest overall, especially if I just went for 19.2E and forget the others.


Sagem DTR 94160S, I think the last update was more than 5 years ago.


Hmm, this could be a possibility then. Would the Bis card work in a Linux box? Does it have an EPG?

Hi,
Practically all TNTSAT receivers can handle a 7 days EPG, the problem is that TNTSAT sends only "now and next" information for most channels.
The same channels have full EPG when you receive them with a Canal sat receiver (le Cube) but the format is proprietary and no TNTSAT receiver can handle it ...

Regarding your Sagem receiver, if you have used it after 2012 it has necessarily received an OTA software update as the conditional access has been reinforced in 2012.
In addition an earlier update (around 2010 or 2011) has brought the DiSEqC and "canal ready" functionalities to all TNTSAT receivers ...
However if you missed the first update the set could not accept anymore the following updates and was unusable after 2012 (unless returned to Sagem for update in their premises).

Regarding the current price of TNTSAT receivers, they start at around 99€ in France for single tuner models (there are very few dual tuner models nowadays).

Concerning Bis, any Viaccess-Orca certified receiver can do the job at the condition that it has the latest version in order to support the new PC6 cards.
There are certainly Linux receivers which support it unofficialy but in this case there is no guarantee of continuity of service.
Practically all receivers (including FTA) support a 7 days EPG but I have no idea of what kind of EPG Bis sends.
However receivers connected to the internet can access a detailed 7 days EPG from many sites.

Thanks for your help, even though I do read French (obviously) it is slower for me to try and decipher long threads about these issues.

Yes, the receiver did not get the 2010/2011 update so it is totally useless now. I will probably avoid TNTSAT if possible. I don't know why French people accept having a single tuner and no EPG in this day and age.

Does anyone have any experience of using a Fransat card in a Linux receiver?

Yes Fransat works fine in a Linux receiver. You'll need to search online for the specifics though as talking about that is a no-no here.

Oops, oh well I can't seem to edit my post.

In fact I would rather not spend a load of time messing about with a receiver, at the moment I don't really have the time or the patience. I would much rather have been able to opt for a simple FTA receiver.

Does anyone have any opinions on the Wave Toroidal T55 dish?

They are a great idea if you want multi lnb & for basically what are strong satellites & depending on how far apart the satellites you want are - I think the limit is 40 degrees but their design means there;s less loss at the edges than a traditional design of the same size main reflector used for multi lnb.

However, the cost of the dish & putting a lot of lnbs on one can get expensive, a zone 2 sky dish is a similar size, a lot cheaper & quite good at multi lnb & will go up to about 40 degrees but will show higher loss at the edges & you have to make or modify the lnb holders yiourself.

what satellites do you want to end up with

There's so many options but I could go for:
- 13E and 19.2E (French TNTSAT, German FTA)
- 13E and 5W (FRANSAT/Bis card) , 19.2E for FTA German
- 13E and the free Francophone Swiss channels from 9E, 19.2E for German
- Any of the above with 28.2 added just for the sake of it

It's as simple as that

I learnt a little Hungarian so 9E would be good but is not essential.


Wow, I didn't realise such a gap was possible, but it's 5W that is the 'outlier'. 5W has the FRANSAT package, otherwise there is nothing on it for me.

FWIW Fransat are now managing a full EPG; I managed to record a show well in advance on France 3 using it a couple of weeks ago. I hadn't realised that TNTsat were still refusing to implement it but I've just checked my Humax 5000 and our friend marceljack is absolutely right (as he always is) and it's still only Now/Next.

I'm not sure talking about using a genuine Fransat card in a Linux receiver would infringe any forum rules here - you would be doing nothing whatsoever that is illegal given that you would have obtained the card legitimately. It would of course be entirely different if you were trying to receive Fransat without a Fransat card.

Thanks, that is good news.

Just out of interest (as FTA French channels will soon not be an option), how does the picture quality compare on the Swiss FTA French channels from 9E vs Fransat?

5w to 28.2/5e is wide but doable & I've done it in the past on older 45cm zone 1s, but as I said, on a traditional offset dish, the losses increase at the edges (actually signal loss plus increased noise from the oval mismatch that occurs.

If the signals are strong & robust margin wise, it's doable on a zone 2- today however, there's such a collection of transmission formats compared to the early days of DVB-S[1] QPSK 3/4 FEC although symbol rates should be OK on most DTH transmissions, but with the advent of DVB-S2 8PSK & lower fecs in the fight to squeeze more & more into transponders- you have to watch for those that look healthy but are more delicate eg - any DVB-S2/8PSK FEC 3/4 & especially 5/6 at the edges may struggle so you have to factor that in today much more than you used to but having said that, a lot of broadcasters have had to back track because of reception issues.


Also very close satellites are a problem on multi lnb setups on standard dishes & especially on a sky dish so normal lnbs will be too big .. eg on a zone 1 sky dish 5w 13e & 28e are very close - possibly touching - whereas the Wave Frontier's design also allows better spacing.


or you could just get a motor if that suites & span the lot & a lot more - up to 60 satellites now on 80cm-1m - 40-50 satellites maybe more on a zone 2 on a motor- but I install motorised sat systems so I probably would say that lol

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.ph...g=fr&mux=12034

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.ph...g=fr&mux=11096

allows a comparison of TF1 on 5 deg W and 9 deg E. Personally I think the 9 deg E picture has the edge, but of course one is comparing a Variable Stat Mux'd version on Fransat with a fixed debit version on 9 deg E. But there is no doubt that Fransat has let standards slide, a few years ago the picture quality on TF1 HD was outstanding and it really couldn't be described as that now.

Sadly nothing is for ever, and even if 9 deg E is a bit better at the moment even there they've been reducing bit rates as they add more and more channels to that transponder. It seems that few of us have any power to influence economically-driven decisions that for the operator simply save them money.

You are fully right but so far one cannot buy a Fransat card alone as they have no expiry date.
So to get one legally you need in principle to buy a complete pack (until Fransat gets notorioustly pirated and decides to change the cards at the expense of its customers, as written in the general sales conditions).
Regarding Linux based receivers, most of them are used (to watch scrambled channels) without a card ...

Thanks for your advice. I have seen these crazy multi-LNB Sky dishes while I have been searching. At least they look better than the Wave T55 which seems bulky and weird, but I don't think I will be going for 5W to 28.2E on one dish, I think that is a bit beyond me and I doubt my local installer would want to try that. If I ditch the outer satellites, though, I could try 13E and 19.2E myself though, which would be a lot cheaper than getting a professional installation for a Wave Toroidal dish.


Now I am leaning towards getting a Bis card for Hotbird, which would make things simpler even if the picture quality is inferior (thanks for the warning by the way, it would have been disappointing to pay for a year and then discover this afterwards!). Then hopefully I wouldn't have to spend time figuring out Linux boxes, and apparently it does have an EPG (I don't know whether it's seven day, though). I wish that France 2, France 3, France 4, France 5 etc would still have been continuing FTA though.

13e - 19e are a bit close if you are thinking of doing it on a zone 1- you'll need a narrow lnb &/or a bit of surgery

Well is Nov 22nd and they are still fta.

As far as I know we are still in October.

Yuk. Senior moment. (My first one)