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  • Strictly Come Dancing
An interesting point about the choice of music for the routines
SepangBlue
19-10-2016
The Letter of the Week that features on the Feedback page of the latest Radio Times makes an interesting point about how the choice of music can have a detrimental effect on a celebrity's ability to dance their routine well.

The correspondent says, and I quote:

"... I'm getting used to the idea of putting ballroom steps to modern songs.

However, I was totally confused on 8th October to see Naga and Pasha dance a tango (in four-time) to the theme of Mission: Impossible (which is in five-time). In such a case the strong beats only coincide with every four bars of music (or five bars of tango), which is hardly fair on an amateur dancer.

It is noticeable that they do better when the music has a recognisable dance rhythm."

I confess that I find myself agreeing with the correspondent's comments.
Cadiva
19-10-2016
Originally Posted by SepangBlue:
“The Letter of the Week that features on the Feedback page of the latest Radio Times makes an interesting point about how the choice of music can have a detrimental effect on a celebrity's ability to dance their routine well.

The correspondent says, and I quote:

"... I'm getting used to the idea of putting ballroom steps to modern songs.

However, I was totally confused on 8th October to see Naga and Pasha dance a tango (in four-time) to the theme of Mission: Impossible (which is in five-time). In such a case the strong beats only coincide with every four bars of music (or five bars of tango), which is hardly fair on an amateur dancer.

It is noticeable that they do better when the music has a recognisable dance rhythm."

I confess that I find myself agreeing with the correspondent's comments.”

It's been a bone of contention since they changed it from the Pros submitting a choice of music to the production team giving them a choice of music.
alan29
19-10-2016
I watched that tango because of the 5/4 time signature. I got the distinct impression that they danced it in 5/4. Thought it was a bit clever.
What name??
19-10-2016
I agree. It is more difficult especially for a beginner to dance to a tune that isn't natural to that dance.
tallulahula
19-10-2016
Actually think it might be easier for a complete beginner to dance to a weird beat than for someone with some understanding of how it's normally danced. After all, as a complete novice, Naga was learning a 'routine' rather than a 'dance'. Having said that though, I prefer traditional music or at least music with a recognisable Rythym for a particular dance.
bettyboom43
19-10-2016
Have you also noticed the likes of Danny and Ore tend to get music that suits the dance whereas people like Tameka had to deal with tango to the theme tune of Beverley Hills Cop. I think a dance with a very specific style should have relevant music as it is totally unfair to the couple. A paso to dramatic tradional music is always going to look better than dancing a Paso to Meatloaf!

I always remember Anita Rani's Paso in Blackpool - incredible, even though the judges didn;t give it top marks for technical ability, the theming, music, staging was fantastic. Would it have had the same impact if she was dancing to Olly Murs - no!
Doghouse Riley
19-10-2016
They could try dancing a waltz to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsGSxbAB3qk
What name??
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by tallulahula:
“Actually think it might be easier for a complete beginner to dance to a weird beat than for someone with some understanding of how it's normally danced. After all, as a complete novice, Naga was learning a 'routine' rather than a 'dance'. Having said that though, I prefer traditional music or at least music with a recognisable Rythym for a particular dance.”

But even if you are learning a routine when the music is composed for that dance then movements you are learning will gel more with the music and its easier to learn a routine and express movement in time with the music. When the music is counter-intuitive to the action you are doing you may make the motion you are taught but it isn't quite as easy as if the music being supportive. Then you have to count more and rely on memory more.
SeasideLady
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by bettyboom43:
“Have you also noticed the likes of Danny and Ore tend to get music that suits the dance whereas people like Tameka had to deal with tango to the theme tune of Beverley Hills Cop. I think a dance with a very specific style should have relevant music as it is totally unfair to the couple. A paso to dramatic tradional music is always going to look better than dancing a Paso to Meatloaf!”

Yes indeed - how come Danny and Oti not only have the correct tempo / traditional music for their dances, but good costumes as well ? ? Every one of their song choices has been perfect for the dance they've done, and there's been no silly props and barmy outfits for them. Does Oti say ' I'm not dancing my choreography to that, and we're not wearing those clothes thank you ' and that's why she's had the most beautiful dresses so far, and Danny hasn't looked too shabby either !

If they treated everybody the same, and just gave them all decent, appropriate music and outfits like they used to do, it would be a lot fairer.
Doghouse Riley
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by SeasideLady:
“Yes indeed - how come Danny and Oti not only have the correct tempo / traditional music for their dances, but good costumes as well ? ? Every one of their song choices has been perfect for the dance they've done, and there's been no silly props and barmy outfits for them. Does Oti say ' I'm not dancing my choreography to that, and we're not wearing those clothes thank you ' and that's why she's had the most beautiful dresses so far, and Danny hasn't looked too shabby either !

If they treated everybody the same, and just gave them all decent, appropriate music and outfits like they used to do, it would be a lot fairer.”

Perhaps I'm not looking close enough.

I've not detected any favouritism towards any couple in any of the elements that could come in for criticism. I have noticed that Kevin has been singled out on here as having special attention. There's a long way to go and I'm sure it'll all even out.

It hasn't got that serious yet. The BBC are still trying to hold the viewers attention with daft themes and costumes for some individuals.
Once viewers start to get "invested" in particular couples, maybe they won't feel they need to go to such extremes.
Jennifer_F
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“They could try dancing a waltz to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsGSxbAB3qk”

haha brilliant, please don't go giving them ideas.!
Jennifer_F
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by tallulahula:
“Actually think it might be easier for a complete beginner to dance to a weird beat than for someone with some understanding of how it's normally danced. After all, as a complete novice, Naga was learning a 'routine' rather than a 'dance'. Having said that though, I prefer traditional music or at least music with a recognisable Rythym for a particular dance.”

Whether you are a complete novice or a professional, the music you dance to should always be strict tempo, never a "weird beat". Most beginners including those on SCD will learn a choreographed routine to a particular dance. The celebs on SCD will only be learning a choreographed routine to a particular piece of music.
SeasideLady
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“Perhaps I'm not looking close enough.

I've not detected any favouritism towards any couple in any of the elements that could come in for criticism. I have noticed that Kevin has been singled out on here as having special attention. There's a long way to go and I'm sure it'll all even out.

It hasn't got that serious yet. The BBC are still trying to hold the viewers attention with daft themes and costumes for some individuals.

Once viewers start to get "invested" in particular couples, maybe they won't feel they need to go to such extremes.”

BIB exactly my point - for some individuals. For example, I think Oksana looked a bit miffed last week to be dressed as a milkmaid with Robert Rinder in lederhosen, and why on earth did they have to be ? Why didn't she get the awesome dress and a great song like Oti ? It wasn't a theme week, and yet she and Robert get lumped in with Ed Balls and all the daft costumes / props. Maybe it's because she's a new Pro finding her place on the show, and not wanting to rock the boat - she's also very quiet and a little bit eclipsed by her partner, that she doesn't speak out

I think there is a bit of favouritism going on actually - definitely promoting of some more than others. Obviously Danny is a serious contender for the Final, and that's why he and Oti won't ever have to share the dance floor with the plastic cow / horse !
Cadiva
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“The celebs on SCD will only be learning a choreographed routine to a particular piece of music.”

In the earlier series' there did seem to be more of an effort to teach the celebrities basic footwork before they went onto learning a routine but if they're still doing that, we're not seeing it in the VTs any more.

If we're (generic) being pedantic, the celebrities who take part in SCD aren't being taught how to ballroom or Latin dance because there simply isn't the time to do that as anyone who has ever taken dance seriously or done it professionally will no doubt also say. They're learning a specific set of steps to a specific piece of music.

I wonder how many of them would be able to know enough of what makes a samba a samba to dance to an alternative piece of music, or a foxtrot and not a tango etc.
davegold
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by SeasideLady:
“ Obviously Danny is a serious contender for the Final, and that's why he and Oti won't ever have to share the dance floor with the plastic cow / horse !”

You're just tempting fate there.
marinamau
20-10-2016
I, for one, like when the good dancers (this year Danny, Ore, Louise...) get the proper music and everything clicks. Leave the weird and wonderful for the comedy acts. I know it sounds unfair, but if we need to endure variety in music and unsuitable tracks, well, better they are destined for the not so good.

I will say though that Kevin and Kellie last year had some really unsuitable choices. I am not a fan of his, but I think he is one of the ones who does a decent job even with really bad tracks.
Jennifer_F
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“In the earlier series' there did seem to be more of an effort to teach the celebrities basic footwork before they went onto learning a routine but if they're still doing that, we're not seeing it in the VTs any more.

If we're (generic) being pedantic, the celebrities who take part in SCD aren't being taught how to ballroom or Latin dance because there simply isn't the time to do that as anyone who has ever taken dance seriously or done it professionally will no doubt also say.”

I agree with what you say but the point I was trying to make was that I doubt many of the celebs could actually distinguish the timings for each dance without being told, never mind trying to dance their set steps to it. I didn't mean technique or footwork.
For example, if you played a dozen different pieces of music, perhaps pieces that they were not familiar with, how many of them would know whether it was a waltz or foxtrot or a rumba ?
I'm quite sure they would only be able to dance the same steps to the same piece of music.
I'm not saying they should know , it takes a while to train your ear to hear the different rhythms for each dance, when you first start. Many beginners cannot hear either the "2" or the "4 & 1" in CCC to be able to start on time - seen it many times in competitions. Dancers dance to a rhythm/timing specific to that dance..
Doghouse Riley
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by SeasideLady:
“BIB exactly my point - for some individuals. For example, I think Oksana looked a bit miffed last week to be dressed as a milkmaid with Robert Rinder in lederhosen, and why on earth did they have to be ? Why didn't she get the awesome dress and a great song like Oti ? It wasn't a theme week, and yet she and Robert get lumped in with Ed Balls and all the daft costumes / props. Maybe it's because she's a new Pro finding her place on the show, and not wanting to rock the boat - she's also very quiet and a little bit eclipsed by her partner, that she doesn't speak out

I think there is a bit of favouritism going on actually - definitely promoting of some more than others. Obviously Danny is a serious contender for the Final, and that's why he and Oti won't ever have to share the dance floor with the plastic cow / horse !”

It's always more an entertainment show than a "proper" ballroom dance competition.

The BBC has always had favourites. Usually their own people, there's always enough of them in it. They don't mind if they don't win, they just like them to do well as it's good PR. They must have been a bit miffed when Naga went out early. There's occasionally agendas. I've mentioned before they had only "positive" VTs about Emma Bunton and even got French & Saunders to visit her in training featured on ITT. They were "busting a gut" to keep her in until after Children in Need which had a Strictly element and she was going to sing her charity single. They wouldn't want a "loser" appearing.

Early on I think the BBC decide who they think are the serious contenders. So they might try to influence the perception of the viewers in subtle, or less than subtle ways. I don't think they believe either Ed or Rinder are among those.

It doesn't really bother me, the situation has gone on for years.
SarahS1
20-10-2016
I think Judge Rinder and his partner had comedy outfits as they see him as a comedy act. Even though he is a good dancer.

Who chooses the music? I think a big factor is if the celebrity likes the song, they are bound to dance better to it. I thought mission impossible for the tango was a bit bizarre. I have often wondered if they give the celeb and the pro a list of songs and they choose?
Doghouse Riley
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by SarahS1:
“I think Judge Rinder and his partner had comedy outfits as they see him as a comedy act. Even though he is a good dancer.

Who chooses the music? I think a big factor is if the celebrity likes the song, they are bound to dance better to it. I thought mission impossible for the tango was a bit bizarre. I have often wondered if they give the celeb and the pro a list of songs and they choose?”

You have to take an objective view of this. The buck stops at "The Rainbow Worrier's" door. She's responsible for the production and her main task is to either maintain or increase the ratings and at the same time keep a grip on the budget.

Ideally, they want a selection of tunes which will appeal to the widest possible audience. The "danceabilty" of some of the choices are then bound to be suspect.

The pros may make suggestions, but how much notice is paid is anyone's guess. They'll dance to whichever tune they are given.
daisydee
20-10-2016
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“They could try dancing a waltz to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsGSxbAB3qk”

Thanks for that - love a bit of Dave Brubeck.

But this is my choice - but a dream that will remain unfulfilled, I suspect.

Dmitri Shostakovich - The Second Waltz

sorry, it didn't come up as a link. Lots of very young famous faces there dancing.
Hitstastic
20-10-2016
I made a point about this when Laura was in the bottom 2 and questioned whether the song choice was off putting to the viewer more so than the dance itself.

Even I was watching Laura's performance and hearing the music start up, I thought the backing singers were singing in the wrong key over the intro. Then I realised they were trying to sing a remixed version of Rhythm Of The Night live!!! The band would've been better performing the original version instead of the Moulin Rouge version.
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