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Old 29-10-2016, 16:17
TheGreatKatsby
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Good luck Reality. I can only imagine how stressful and upsetting this has been for you. Sounds like you have the judge on side and it doesn't seem like this latest 'evidence' amounts to much at all.

You're so close to the finish line, hang in there, stay strong. You can't prepare enough so keep going although it's difficult to read the statements.

Your manager and colleagues will trip over their own lies; the judge has the measure of them and will see straight through them.

Hopefully the company will settle when they realise that they can't bully you into backing down.
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Old 30-10-2016, 16:16
lozenger
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I can't offer any advice - sounds like you are doing all the right things but just wanted to wish you lots of luck & strength for next week. Sounds like you have had a thoroughly unpleasant experience and hope that justice will come your way to resolve this. Mat leave should be a relaxing time for you to enjoy your new family & you have been denied this. Let us know how you get on - got everything crossed for you!
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Old 30-10-2016, 23:18
RealityRocks
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Thankyou all so much for your well wishes. I'm prepping for court tomorrow and I read my ex boss' witness statement. It's a pack of provable lies and contradictions! She actually admits in it that she was encouraging me to leave as the job had evolved. She had no proof it had evolved (it hadn't) and that the system I might not know is.... Microsoft excel!! I have a degree in electronic commerce and Ive used excel every working day for the past 10 years - I've even sent her excel spreadsheets with complex calculations in as SHE wasn't familiar with it. It beggars belief! Hopefully I can pull her to bits in the cross examination. Also apparently I agreed to meet her for a coffee (nope) as long as 'we don't discuss work'!?! Yeah right! She said this proves my inflexibility - I was on maternity leave! She then said she didn't bother to invite me to any team events as 'she knew I had childcare issues' - but apparently I agreed to meet for a coffee so...?? (I've never had childcare issues by the way, it's just that it's pretty hard to have anyone care for your baby when you are a feeding mother whose baby won't take a bottle. I can't exactly give my boobs to someone!!)
It goes on and on and picking through the fabrication she's admitted to at least three counts of maternity discrimination without realising it. I thought she would have had legal guidance writing the document, it reads so badly, she even uses a colloquial term for my first name throughout (ive never met her!) it just reads so unprofessionally. I'm almost looking forward to making her look an idiot in front of her manager in court now. She made my life a misery so I don't feel guilty at all. Let's see what happens!
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Old 31-10-2016, 20:04
Bex_123
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Best of luck tomorrow. You sound like you have such a strong case here.

Do let us know how you get on
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:55
Ginger Daddy
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Best of luck tomorrow. You sound like you have such a strong case here.

Do let us know how you get on
You posted that in reply to a post from the previous day, the case could have been completed yesterday for all we know.
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Old 01-11-2016, 17:39
bitchboyblue
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"materntiy discrimination suffered whilst I was on maternity leave. My manager didn't keep me in the loop at all (as is the policy at work), purposefully didn't invite me to events and make me aware of things."

"all torn me apart as a bad employee who refuses to help herself but I was on maternity leave - I wasn't supposed to be working!"

I may be reading this wrong - but you seem to totally contradict yourself here.
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Old 01-11-2016, 20:14
blueisthecolour
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"materntiy discrimination suffered whilst I was on maternity leave. My manager didn't keep me in the loop at all (as is the policy at work), purposefully didn't invite me to events and make me aware of things."

"all torn me apart as a bad employee who refuses to help herself but I was on maternity leave - I wasn't supposed to be working!"

I may be reading this wrong - but you seem to totally contradict yourself here.
An employer has an obligation to ensure that an employee doesn't face any negative consequences in their employment from going on maternity leave. That means that they should make reasonable efforts to ensure that the employee is able to continue their job at the same level of responsibility as when they left - which usually means helping them stay up to date with changes in work practices and conditions.

Of course it's a bit of a sensitive balance given that the employee has a right to not be involved with any work whilst on maternity. However if major changes take place then the employer should either ask the individual if they would like to be kept informed or even come into the office occasionally (keep in touch days) or they should have a plan for getting the employee up to speed on their return. Ideally they should also invite the employee to social events to ensure to give them the chance of maintaining working relationships.

So the poster isn't contradicting herself, it's the employer's obligation to help her stay up to date with issues that impact her role, not the employee's.
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Old 01-11-2016, 20:21
RealityRocks
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"materntiy discrimination suffered whilst I was on maternity leave. My manager didn't keep me in the loop at all (as is the policy at work), purposefully didn't invite me to events and make me aware of things."

"all torn me apart as a bad employee who refuses to help herself but I was on maternity leave - I wasn't supposed to be working!"

I may be reading this wrong - but you seem to totally contradict yourself here.
I'm not sure how? My manager didn't update me on anything, the policy is that we got monthly updates on things like benefits so I missed out on stuff which would have been useful to me on leave. I don't mean work things directly related to my role in which I needed to take action. It's hard to explain but it's a huge company and there are things I should have been told and wasn't. She then fabricated reasons why she hadn't updated me and/or invited me to social events (when she invited others on leave). She said I refused to help myself because apparently even though the maternity policy states your manager will update you monthly, I never logged into my work laptop, even though I'd left it in my locker at work, emailed her prior to this to say it was safer there and I could only be contacted on my personal phone, and HR have confirmed that there is no obligation to keep picking up your work email whilst on mat leave. So she the changed her mind and said I'd asked not to be contacted which I proved was untrue as I'd mailed her with my personal details. So she's now changed it again and said my husband who works in a totally different part of the business should have been updating me (no one told him that!).

Apparently I'm uncooperative because I couldn't go to work with a newborn for a meeting, when HR again confirmed it is a health and safety breach to do so as I'm not technically insured to be there and there are no facilities for babies. But instead of accepting this she mailed her manager and HR saying I was 'point blank refusing to come in for a face to face meeting'.

Anyway. My case is heard on Thursday, a few nerves have crept in but I'm prepped and ready so I'll let you all know how it goes
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Old 01-11-2016, 22:24
tartan-belle
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fingers crossed for thursday, realityrocks! you can do this!
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:10
LakieLady
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Yes, good luck from me too.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:42
Paul_DNAP
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I thought she would have had legal guidance writing the document, it reads so badly, she even uses a colloquial term for my first name throughout (ive never met her!) it just reads so unprofessionally. I'm almost looking forward to making her look an idiot in front of her manager in court now. She made my life a misery so I don't feel guilty at all. Let's see what happens!
I'd be tempted to drop in a "If you can't even get my name right, how can anyone have confidence in anything else you've written?" but that may come across as a touch too smug.

But certainly make sure you find a way to point it out that it isn't the correct name to reference you by.

Good luck
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Old 03-11-2016, 20:37
j9mcl
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Hope it went well today.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:45
gilesb
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I have been following this thread (and also the original one from last year). I hope it went well yesterday and reached the conclusion you hoped for.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:38
Ginger Daddy
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Any news on this?

The pessimist in me thinks it cant have gone well otherwise she would have been back to tell us.
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Old 07-11-2016, 15:47
Trajet
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Any news on this?

The pessimist in me thinks it cant have gone well otherwise she would have been back to tell us.
Or, it went very well but a confidentially clause has been part of the deal.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:34
Ginger Daddy
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Or, it went very well but a confidentially clause has been part of the deal.
I'm sure her telling us if she won wouldn't be subject to this, she doesnt have to go into the minutiae.
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Old 08-11-2016, 11:44
jackol
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Or, it went very well but a confidentially clause has been part of the deal.
As Tribunals are heldin open court then she could easily say wether she won or not without breaking any confidentiality . Probably still ongoing and she is busy
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Old 08-11-2016, 13:00
scottie2121
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As Tribunals are heldin open court then she could easily say wether she won or not without breaking any confidentiality . Probably still ongoing and she is busy
Or it could be her employer settled at the eleventh hour and included a confidentiality clause?
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Old 08-11-2016, 13:40
jackol
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Or it could be her employer settled at the eleventh hour and included a confidentiality clause?
Its called a Compromise/Settlement Agreement and the confidentiality clauses cannot include stopping either party reporting the outcome. The confidentiality causes which couldnt be discussed are terms of settlement etc
Besides RR (op) would also have to employ a solicitor to read the agreement before ACAS accepted it. The Employer meets the cost of the solicitor in this instance
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Old 08-11-2016, 19:55
gilesb
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This is going to be one of those frustrating threads where we never find out the answer isn't it?
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Old 08-11-2016, 21:22
blueisthecolour
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Maybe she got so much money that she jumped on a plane to the Seychelles.
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Old 08-11-2016, 21:28
RealityRocks
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No eleventh hour settlement I am afraid! The entire hearing went ahead, Thursday to this morning. I prepared opening arguments, cross examined the witnesses for the respondent (and was cross examined myself) and presented a closing speech. I did it all in my own (with the support of my family at home, of course) and I'm not going to play it down, it was terrifying. There were a few tears in the car early on!

But as the hours passed it became easier as I learned the process and the judge praised me as an intelligent and articulate individual. I'm proud of myself, even if that's the only thing I take away from this horrible experience! But crucially, I'd do it again.

Basically the judge has said there's so much to consider in terms of evidence and my complaint being multiple in points, so they (two legal counsel and he) will reconvene at a later date and I will find out within 5 weeks by letter. It's not too nerve wracking, life goes on, I have so much happening I'm not focussing on it.

Maybe I am naive but I was shocked at how my manager and her manager lied on oath. He even smiled and looked right at me as he lied. But I know I told the truth and that's all that matters to me, that I got though it and I stayed dignified. The judge really understood my complaint and hopefully could see the lies I was exposing. My whole character was criticised by their barrister- thst at a vulnerable time I was overly sensitive to my managers 'repeated offers of help' and I misunderstood her wording and intentions. All I know is that's not true, she was absolutely spiteful to me and she damaged my health with the worry. If she feels a fraction of that now, even if I lose, then at the very least she might not treat anyone else the way she treated me.
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Old 08-11-2016, 22:12
blueisthecolour
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No eleventh hour settlement I am afraid! The entire hearing went ahead, Thursday to this morning. I prepared opening arguments, cross examined the witnesses for the respondent (and was cross examined myself) and presented a closing speech. I did it all in my own (with the support of my family at home, of course) and I'm not going to play it down, it was terrifying. There were a few tears in the car early on!

But as the hours passed it became easier as I learned the process and the judge praised me as an intelligent and articulate individual. I'm proud of myself, even if that's the only thing I take away from this horrible experience! But crucially, I'd do it again.

Basically the judge has said there's so much to consider in terms of evidence and my complaint being multiple in points, so they (two legal counsel and he) will reconvene at a later date and I will find out within 5 weeks by letter. It's not too nerve wracking, life goes on, I have so much happening I'm not focussing on it.

Maybe I am naive but I was shocked at how my manager and her manager lied on oath. He even smiled and looked right at me as he lied. But I know I told the truth and that's all that matters to me, that I got though it and I stayed dignified. The judge really understood my complaint and hopefully could see the lies I was exposing. My whole character was criticised by their barrister- thst at a vulnerable time I was overly sensitive to my managers 'repeated offers of help' and I misunderstood her wording and intentions. All I know is that's not true, she was absolutely spiteful to me and she damaged my health with the worry. If she feels a fraction of that now, even if I lose, then at the very least she might not treat anyone else the way she treated me.
Well I hope everything works out for you OP.

I mean, without hearing both sides of the story it's impossible for anyone here to make a proper judgement. But in all my times in HR I have never heard of any case like the one you are describing. When we go to tribunal it's either because 1 - The employee is clearly in the wrong and it's a matter of honour, 2 - The amount of money is huge and it's worth fighting or 3 - We are worried that settling the case might create a precedent that would lead us open to more employees suing us in the future.

The idea that you would take a woman who has concerns about her treatment during maternity to tribunal is beyond ridiculous. Given the sums you are talking about it's nothing but lose - lose for the company (assuming what you said is right). I can only assume that someone has lied to such an extent that management feels confident pursuing it.

If what you have said is right and the court finds in your favour (which is 99.9% likely given the facts you presented) then they are going to be facing a serious bill.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:28
Toggler
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Well I hope everything works out for you OP.

I mean, without hearing both sides of the story it's impossible for anyone here to make a proper judgement. But in all my times in HR I have never heard of any case like the one you are describing. When we go to tribunal it's either because 1 - The employee is clearly in the wrong and it's a matter of honour, 2 - The amount of money is huge and it's worth fighting or 3 - We are worried that settling the case might create a precedent that would lead us open to more employees suing us in the future.

The idea that you would take a woman who has concerns about her treatment during maternity to tribunal is beyond ridiculous. Given the sums you are talking about it's nothing but lose - lose for the company (assuming what you said is right). I can only assume that someone has lied to such an extent that management feels confident pursuing it.

If what you have said is right and the court finds in your favour (which is 99.9% likely given the facts you presented) then they are going to be facing a serious bill.
I am with you on this; never been to tribunal over such a case and from the information available it would appear the employer is going to get caned - probablyalso named and shamed.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:38
HR Guru
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Well I hope everything works out for you OP.

I mean, without hearing both sides of the story it's impossible for anyone here to make a proper judgement. But in all my times in HR I have never heard of any case like the one you are describing. When we go to tribunal it's either because 1 - The employee is clearly in the wrong and it's a matter of honour, 2 - The amount of money is huge and it's worth fighting or 3 - We are worried that settling the case might create a precedent that would lead us open to more employees suing us in the future.

The idea that you would take a woman who has concerns about her treatment during maternity to tribunal is beyond ridiculous. Given the sums you are talking about it's nothing but lose - lose for the company (assuming what you said is right). I can only assume that someone has lied to such an extent that management feels confident pursuing it.

If what you have said is right and the court finds in your favour (which is 99.9% likely given the facts you presented) then they are going to be facing a serious bill.
I am with you on this; never been to tribunal over such a case and from the information available it would appear the employer is going to get caned - probablyalso named and shamed.
Entirely agree. Extremely stupid employer or as you said managers have lied so much that they (upper management and HR) believe they have a chance of defending this.
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