The Shadow King is all about the cuddling. All you need to know.

As this is iplayer I'm watching it on my own on the PC as no-one else in the house is interested! I put the subtitles on as a matter of course as it's hardly surround sound, just little speakers.

No idea if Ian will get a mention, but I kind of doubt it. Don't think he's been mentioned so far even on a sign or anything. Maybe he retired after it became an academy and others (possibly sinister, possibly not) stepped in?

Actually, the whole 'Governors' thing is quite intriguing. We know they can build a pretty darn high tech Robot for Miss Quill, or should I say Andrea, to be fooled....and snog.

Well I thought I'd give it another go, as I'm really trying to like it, but crikey, it hit new lows.

The Ram/April sex scene was cliched from start to finish with OTT sentimental music and their dialogue as a whole is just awful and so badly written. Of course the mum would appear just after they've finished. Of course she was. Predictable and awful in equal measure.

I too struggle to hear the Shadow Kin leader and what he's saying. It's too muddied in the sound mix. His joke during the sex scene was atrocious too.

The blossom thing was rather pointless too. I get it will be in the next one, but it was basically likes the cubes from the Power of Three. A slow invasion. Been there, done it before. Highly unimaginative.

Other little points. How did April know doing what she did would help her mum move her legs again? Don't don't get that.

Oh, and how come Ram now has a car and drove April home yet in episode three he was running everywhere to Tanya's etc. Has even more time elapsed now? The timing is rather confusing to me.

Episode 4 I liked it but not as strong as 3 was, I don't really care for the Shadow Kin (Because half the time I don't know what the hell they're saying) I hope they finish that Storyline ASAP.. The Only characters I actually care for so far is Miss Quill, Charlie in the beginning but hes becoming a bit of a pr*ck towards Miss Quill and needs to get off his high horse, Matteusz, Tanya Meh I'm in the middle about her same with Ram and April.

In fact I think I cared more about the Slitheen then the Shadow Kin.

How is this the same as the power of three? Firstly the flowers are actually dangerous, secondly will destroy the world in a day according to next time, hardly slow. Finally we don't even know much about this invasion either. Sorry but everything you write is not giving a show a chance, you pick on the smallest flaws and make it seem like the entire episode. OTT sentimental music in a sex scene really? Also what was cliched about it, not that is actually a bad thing either. As for the mother, she easily could have heard something. It isn't like she doesn't go in that room, she literally went in their at the start of the liaise as well. So what if it was predictable, it wasn't meant to be a shock too us, but rather move that relationship forward. Finally April saw the healing powers this connection had when she cut herself with the violin, I also assume the connection with the shadow kin increased her knowledge considerably.

The manner in which the blossom has invaded is the same. A slow invasion. It's the same. The manner of it, even from how its initial establishing shot was very much like the Power of Three.

The flaws I'm picking on aren't the smallest of things either. They form a large chunk of the problems I have with Class. It's got so many flaws as a show, so I've been quite kind in limiting what I've said.

The point of a cliche is that is expected and for something like Class which is trying to come across as new and innovative, it feels odd that it resorts to cliches. That whole section felt like a scene from a rom com. It jarred a lot between characters where all of a sudden they've got together. Before this episode they'd kissed once and now they've had sex. The character progression is all over the place. It's poor writing and is quite lazy too.

And by the way, April's mum walked in on them after they'd had sex. That was clear in the dialogue, but you seem to think otherwise.

And you've assumed how April knew of the healing capabilities. Nothing in the dialogue said as much. That was poor writing and quite a bit of a plot hole too. The fact you've had to assume something to answer it says it all.

It's had its problems from episode one. I've made that clear on here. I am entitled to criticise it. I'm making valid points. They all form part of the problems I have with the show.

I also have a problem with how fast that relationship developed, but the scene itself is fine. I don't often see many sex scenes which aren't cliched, it isn't something new and innovative, neither is making it a romantic scene.

I am curious though, do you hate episodes like Dalek considering it is very similar to Power of the Daleks, now this is just one example because Doctor Who very often rips off itself, actually every show does but they make it different. Like this for instance, i didn't even notice the similarities because there aren't many of them.

You also assume that everything must be explained in a single 40 minutes or it is bad writing. Many of your issues about previous episodes are being resolved, such as knowledge about the space time crack.

As for April we know 100% as a fact that this connection has allowed regenerative abilities when she injured herself. Do you also think she'd know how to find her way into the Shadow Kin world with her regular self? So it is also clear that she is more knowledgeable about the power she has, which was mentioned about how they read each others thoughts and all of that. But too add on that, it ended on a cliffhanger, not everything which has happened is yet to be resolved or explained which i assure you will happen in a conversation with April's mother.

So no, not bad writing.

I quite like Class. I mean it's not reinventing the wheel but it's watchable and it's way better than the first run of Torchwood.

That is all.

Just watched episode 4 and I did enjoy it overall. what I really liked were the scenes of April and the shadow kin king being connected and the unpredictability of what she could do. there was an energy in those scenes and the confrontations with I also really like The Intrigue of the governors and miss quill being tempted by them. at this stage Katherine Kelly as miss quill is actually getting the best lines and and she is the one character I understand Patrick Ness doesn't write good dialogue for these teenagers better though with adults.

there's is still a lack of cohesiveness between the other
characters. they are like a lot of soloists put together trying to be a band .Do I believe Charlie cares for Ram or Matteus cares about Tanya ? No. Even Ram and April feel forced together. I suppose with only 8 episodes the writing is fighting to move the plot along versus build these relationships. So we have to accept that a month is obviously a lifetime for Ram to forget the x-girlfriend & jump into bed with April.

Still I enjoyed a cliff hanger moment and will be back 😀

I'm not a fan of what they have done with the interactions of the group as a whole and how little it seems certain members care about someone. For instance Charlie saw April lose it in class and he didn't even ask to see if she was fine especially when it was clear she was possessed. It's clear they want to go in the direction of not a close group to begin with, for instance Tanya not being pleased with Charlie's treatment of Quill. But i am not a fan of this direction in an 8 episode season, mainly because often characters are completely sidelined like Tanya this episode.

On your first point, I've never liked the Daleks and always find their episodes samey. That lack of variety or rehashing in terms of them does get on my nerves, although on the whole the show does tend to stray away from things like rehashing. However, if I was in charge of Doctor Who, you can be assured there wouldn't be any Dalek episodes. I'd keep them well away from the show.

The fact is you say you didn't notice the similarities between the flowers and the cubes just is down to you. The fact is I noticed it and it bugged me throughout the episode that it felt just the same how they were being dismissed. People pick up on different things, surely you can understand that? I noticed it and immediately thought it was just like the cubes. Hence why I think it's poor writing.

You saying it isn't poor writing won't change my view. You do come across as if you can't accept any criticism of the show though. I make a point and then you just instantly dismiss it and say I'm just being picky. I'm not.

Your other point about me assuming everything must be answered straight away is wrong too. I don't mind it being done over several episodes, but the fact is that things have happened on screen with little in the way of explanation to make it make sense. The whole Shadow Kin thing was poorly explained in episode 1 and now in episode 4 its just ploughing ahead with it despite the fact it's still not clear.

Of course that could get explained in next week's episode, but for it not to have been expanded upon slightly in episodes 2 and 3 has really harmed this plot. It's all over the place.

They haven't done enough to show that they're a-level students or in sixth-form. We see the odd corridor/classroom but not much else. I guess since sixth-form is only two year thing , they're holding back to have more series set in the time period.

Oh, and Sam_Gee1, if you think I was being picky with some of my criticisms of episode 4, turns out I wasn't the only one. Amazingly, they pick up on the blossom/cube similarity too...

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/class-e...view-81521.htm

This show has problems, some of which i mentioned the post prior to your reply. I just disagree with some of your criticisms. For instance the flowers, that is genuinely setting out too look for flaws because it shares a hint of resemblance to an invasion which happened on another show. But it is being picky especially since we don't even know what is going to happen with this issue, if you don't see that then alright.

Also what is not clear about the Shadow Kin? We learnt in the first episode what they did too Charlie and Quill's planet, we learnt that the king is sharing April's heart and have a connection. Then the plot is revisited in episode 4 in which we physically are told and see how the connection became stronger in attempts for the king to find April to fix his problem. We are also told that they feel what the other person feels and are effected by each others actions. April also learns by accident that this connection allows for regenerative powers when she cuts herself with the Violin. All bases that needed to be covered thus far about the Shadow Kin have been.

I think you'd go down as one of the least popular showrunners of all time lol

What about the millions of viewers, including children, who love the Daleks? Said viewers would be the ones paying your salary, so I think in reality you'd have to just swallow your pride and include the Daleks.

Would we even have Doctor Who today without the Daleks? I highly doubt it. Bearing in mind they were thinking of cancelling the show after just four episodes, before the Daleks came in and thrust the show into the limelight.

I wasn't looking for flaws when I saw the blossom. I saw it straight away, it instantly reminded me of the cubes. I hadn't sought out to do that. Why do you seem to think otherwise? I noticed it, it bugged me and rather annoyed me how similar it was.

To me, the Shadow Kin story is rather confused. I get the leader and April share the heart but everything after that is still rather unclear after watching it. The fact it wasn't actually said on screen by April (or the Shadow Kin guy through her) that she was able to heal her mum, it just came out of nowhere to me. It was so very jarring and unexplained.

I'd be giving them a good rest, which is what is needed. I wouldn't care if that made me unpopular. I would make sure my stories are good enough to cope without Daleks. The show is all about new etc, it would be a new era, a Dalek-less one.

I've got plenty of ideas that wouldn't even require them. Plenty of new enemies etc. I do like the Cybermen though, so they would feature at least.

But, if the Daleks had to be included, small cameo's at most is all I'd have. I just don't like them.

That very scene did end on a cliffhanger and it was clear about the regenerative powers as well so the entire situation wasn't left completely unexplained just more too it. If you aren't happy about the explanation or lack of, then that would be episode 5's problem not this one. As i don't see what else they could have done in this episode.

About the Mum bit, there were a few moments where April could heal herself but I think it was supposed to be jarring when she at first appeared to attack her mum, I think. Hence the "What are you doing?!" stuff being shouted at her by everybody. And this is a 2 part story...it's bound to be addressed.

eta Oh, already covered above! Hush me mouth.

Not sure how you feel on classic who Daleks probably similar, but for me they were at their best then because they were cunning and actually had a fear factor. Not completely robotic. New Who lacks in both of this for me and i have also gotten to the point unless you have a great story don't use them.

I haven't watched enough of Classic Who to have a proper judgement on it really. Seen some Troughton (really liked it) and a fair amount of Pertwee (really like it too) so, I can't really speak on the Daleks too much from that era.

I just feel their overused and their stories are becoming too samey for my liking. I know as someone else up thread said I'd be disappointing those who are fans if I was in charge by not featuring them, but the show has to create new iconic monsters and villains. That would be my aim to keep the longevity of the show going with new threats that can be featured in the same bracket of the Daleks etc.

By pigeon-holing into just bringing back the Daleks every year, I think that would damage the show more long-term. It feels very insular to me at the moment and repeating villains every year without fail would just add to that insular feeling.

People don't WANT them rested though lol. As showrunner, if you just went in and said "I'm not having the Daleks because I don't like them and I don't care what my viewers think" you'd never so much as get the chance to introduce your great ideas. You'd be out on your ear with that attitude lol.

No need to shout it. I get it wouldn't be a popular decision but the show does need to evolve and change. Keeping it same old, same old won't work forever. Viewers will tire of that.

As we saw, the marketing for Series 9 shot itself in the foot. Keeping the show the same would do more damage in the long term because there would be a lack of new about it. Plus, me sidelining the Daleks would bring publicity to the show because you'd have the press in typical outrage story.

And as a side point, don't you want the show to being in new villains that could be in the same pantheon as the Daleks? If not, why not?

I would just give the show a very different take. Is that a bad thing?

I don't see that many people who aren't sick of the yearly dalek story. Daleks should never be gone from the show but they need to be used more sporadically like they were in the past and that helped the quality of their stories too.

I agree to some extent and I certainly understand your point of view. For me, it's not that I want to see them used less but better. There's just nothing interesting or memorable about their appearances over the past few years. It's like Dalek wallpaper.

Haha, not shouting brother. Just saying, the Daleks are kind of intrinsic to Doctor Who. In the fifty-three years (very nearly) it's been going, people still haven't tired of them, and as such for a showrunner to remove them would be pretty disastrous.

It's not as though the show hasn't tried bringing in "big hits" like the Daleks. The Cybermen and the Weeping Angels are probably two of the largest examples, yet the viewers don't want "Villian X" instead of the Daleks, no matter how good "Villian X" might be. They want "Villian X" AND the Daleks.

Why break what doesn't need fixing?