DS Forums

 
 

Rock Radio Glasgow


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26-10-2016, 14:39
nikobatallones
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 828

Looks like they won the West Central Scotland licence.

https://www.facebook.com/RockRadioGl...549673/?type=3

EDIT: Officially from Ofcom:
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom...radio-scotland
nikobatallones is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 26-10-2016, 14:43
Radio_Geek
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 433
Well done team!!! Wonder the main reason why they won it? Fact it was on it before or the crowd support?
Radio_Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 15:00
Jim Gellatly
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 106
Just as well I don't believe everything I read on here. Well done to the team!
Jim Gellatly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 15:23
mongooose
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 172
Just as well I don't believe everything I read on here. Well done to the team!
Exactly Jim, Softly Softly Catchee Monkey, A tremendous result and well done to All the team that campaigned tirelessly at Gigs emails,Events Fundraisers etc.....Truly a benefit to the community........This time The SUITS will not ruin it!
mongooose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2016, 10:33
zorro2566
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sligo,Ireland.
Posts: 250
Are they currently broadcasting online? Found this station ..

http://www.internetradiouk.com/rock-...w/#close-popup
zorro2566 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2016, 10:47
p_c_u_k
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,274
Hands up - I genuinely didn't think Rock Radio would get it. Congratulations to everyone involved, it was a hard-fought campaign and, like any underdog who defeats a big team, they just wanted it more.
p_c_u_k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2016, 17:58
Ethan Rayne
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 494
Are they currently broadcasting online? Found this station ..

http://www.internetradiouk.com/rock-...w/#close-popup
No, that'd XS Manchester, just incorrect information on the station name.
Ethan Rayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2016, 22:34
Radio_Geek
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 433
Tom Russell was doing Facebook live and said that the earliest launch could be April. Once staffing, contracts, advertising agencies and studios are all sorted. Fair play, as the months for getting things like this up and running tend to go quick with each part of the process taking its time.
Radio_Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2016, 09:04
Craig Kelly
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,545
Congratulations to all at Rock Radio, the underdogs in this contest.

The reason why most DS correspondents wrote-off Rock Radio was simply the evidence that a rock style format does not work in the UK. It is a niche market with limited appeal and worse still, the commercial radio advertising market, like media buyers and agencies just don't get 'Rock Radio'. (Malcolm Bluemel, one time owner of Planet Rock lost a fortune with that venture although at the time, it well thought of and broadcast in stereo on DAB).

And that was probably part of the reason that Ofcom awarded the new 96.3 Glasgow & West Scotland FM licence to Rock Radio.

This niche format with limited commercial appeal will not harm Global brands Heart, Smooth and Capital and same with Bauer's Clyde 1. So the existing commercial operators will be delighted.

The new Rock Radio on 96.3 has huge FM transmission costs to overcome (c£80k p.a.) with limited commercial revenues.

The team behind the new Rock Radio will have to be inventive to overcome the lack of normal commercial spot revenue and maybe that is contained in the confidential sections of the application document.

Otherwise, new Rock Radio could become another Beat 106 or worse, Talk 107!
Craig Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2016, 12:40
stv viewer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 9,624
I wonder who will end up on Rock Radio I cant see there being any poaching of presenters from other stations. I think Jim Gellantly and Tom Russel will have shows but I wonder who else will appear.
stv viewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2016, 13:19
Radio_Geek
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 433
I wonder who will end up on Rock Radio I cant see there being any poaching of presenters from other stations. I think Jim Gellantly and Tom Russel will have shows but I wonder who else will appear.
Ted Rock and I guess a few friends from rocksport? There will be a few syndicated shows included.
Radio_Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2016, 18:55
mongooose
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 172
I wonder who will end up on Rock Radio I cant see there being any poaching of presenters from other stations. I think Jim Gellantly and Tom Russel will have shows but I wonder who else will appear.
You Might just get a surprise or two come April
mongooose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2016, 23:54
russellelly
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 10,719
Tom Russell was doing Facebook live and said that the earliest launch could be April. Once staffing, contracts, advertising agencies and studios are all sorted. Fair play, as the months for getting things like this up and running tend to go quick with each part of the process taking its time.
April seems ambitious, wish them all the best to get on-air asap.

I wonder who will end up on Rock Radio I cant see there being any poaching of presenters from other stations. I think Jim Gellantly and Tom Russel will have shows but I wonder who else will appear.
It'll certainly be interesting. Tom Russell definitely sounded out of place during his brief stint on XFM Paisley (sic) and I'd say Jim wouldn't have been at home on the original 96.3 Rock Radio. The fact both are involved suggests a more diverse range of rock than either of those two stations. I could see it being mostly like 96.3 Rock Radio, but perhaps with some off-peak specialist programming of new music and related genres.

I'd like to hear Fraser Thomson back on 96.3 too, but not sure if he's got a stable gig at West FM now? Ciaran O'Toole (fun fact: the last ever voice on Q96) was involved in the bid, perhaps he'll turn up too?
russellelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2016, 01:22
Black Label
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Shawlands, Glasgow
Posts: 3,025
Congratulations to all at Rock Radio, the underdogs in this contest.

The reason why most DS correspondents wrote-off Rock Radio was simply the evidence that a rock style format does not work in the UK. It is a niche market with limited appeal and worse still, the commercial radio advertising market, like media buyers and agencies just don't get 'Rock Radio'. (Malcolm Bluemel, one time owner of Planet Rock lost a fortune with that venture although at the time, it well thought of and broadcast in stereo on DAB).

And that was probably part of the reason that Ofcom awarded the new 96.3 Glasgow & West Scotland FM licence to Rock Radio.

This niche format with limited commercial appeal will not harm Global brands Heart, Smooth and Capital and same with Bauer's Clyde 1. So the existing commercial operators will be delighted.

The new Rock Radio on 96.3 has huge FM transmission costs to overcome (c£80k p.a.) with limited commercial revenues.

The team behind the new Rock Radio will have to be inventive to overcome the lack of normal commercial spot revenue and maybe that is contained in the confidential sections of the application document.

Otherwise, new Rock Radio could become another Beat 106 or worse, Talk 107!
It is akin to Talk 107 in that at face value it clearly most broadens choice without hurting the rest of the market to any great extent. Also, the people behind it can certainly sustain the service. If you strip away all 'in practice' knowledge about previous awards then Rock Radio was the obvious choice.

As you say it was reasonable of DS posters to assume that OFCOM took previous outcomes into consideration but maybe their procedures and rules don't allow them to do this, and that they operate akin to a jury which is to consider the evidence put before them only, and not be swayed by real life previous experience.

It is also noteworthy that Rock Radio were the only bid of the 4 to campaign for the licence in any way once the bids were in. While it is true OFCOM place less value on quantitive letters of support than qualititive data, the fact remains that OFCOM's inbox would have been deluged with support for Rock and next to nothing for the other bids. If one would-be station is doing all the running and no one else is bothering it may well have had the desired effect. "Less value" still means some value, after all.

The other anlogy to Talk 107 is that when Kelvin Mackenzie's 'Wireless Group' applied, soon after the award it became apparent they did not expext to win, had only applied to show bullish intent, and Kelvin did not even know what 'Dunedin FM' (the bid name) meant!

It did occur to me that had 'Bring Back Rock Radio' failed to win, it would have made for a good DAB project either as a replacement for Rocksport, or even on Spencer's local MUX. This award is a surprise to us. Is it a surprise to them?

As their facebook post puts it, 'shit just got real'. Indeed. I really wish them well.
Black Label is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2016, 02:05
Radio_Geek
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 433
April seems ambitious, wish them all the best to get on-air asap.



It'll certainly be interesting. Tom Russell definitely sounded out of place during his brief stint on XFM Paisley (sic) and I'd say Jim wouldn't have been at home on the original 96.3 Rock Radio. The fact both are involved suggests a more diverse range of rock than either of those two stations. I could see it being mostly like 96.3 Rock Radio, but perhaps with some off-peak specialist programming of new music and related genres.

I'd like to hear Fraser Thomson back on 96.3 too, but not sure if he's got a stable gig at West FM now? Ciaran O'Toole (fun fact: the last ever voice on Q96) was involved in the bid, perhaps he'll turn up too?
It was a rough suggestion, but I would say that would be when the test transmissions kicks off? The original Rock Radio inherited the Q96 license and could only air Classic Rock more than the newer stuff (aired on the then Friday Night Rock Show) to keep ofcom happy. I'm thinking that the 'All New' Rock Radio station itself would sound like a cross between Team Rock Radio and 6 Music (with a few well known classics in the daytime). Nothing near like XS Manchester! My guess is that the former Rocksport guys and gals (one or two of them) are in line for a show, whilst the lovely Jim Gellatly gets a weeknight slot of some form.

Interested to see how many live outside broadcasts they'll do. Wondering if they'll get T in The Park coverage or Download again?

In the application, they have also stated that there will be syndicated shows on overnight?

There's still a question of whether there's enough money for it to return to the Central Mux owned by wireless group?
Radio_Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 08:45
Craig Kelly
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,545
It was a rough suggestion, but I would say that would be when the test transmissions kicks off? There's still a question of whether there's enough money for it to return to the Central Mux owned by wireless group?
Launch will probably be in the spring of 2017 to capitalise on the start of the summer 2017 rock and music festivals. Typically, in the current tech age, FM test transmissions are usually not more that a month before launch. So you may see a stereo beacon on 96.3 FM again from sometime in March 2017.

The business would seem to have a capitalisation of around £750,000 with about £100,000 (include VAT etc.) going on annual 96.3 FM transmission costs.

There is some doubt if there would be any uplift in listener numbers if Rock Radio was on the Central Scotland DAB mux. I would have thought Rock would want carriage at 128 kbts stereo (none of this 80 kbts mono nonsense on D2 SDL) and that would be heading towards £100,000 or thereabouts. Maybe DAB will follow when there is good cash flow.
Craig Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 10:30
Radio_Geek
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 433
Launch will probably be in the spring of 2017 to capitalise on the start of the summer 2017 rock and music festivals. Typically, in the current tech age, FM test transmissions are usually not more that a month before launch. So you may see a stereo beacon on 96.3 FM again from sometime in March 2017.

The business would seem to have a capitalisation of around £750,000 with about £100,000 (include VAT etc.) going on annual 96.3 FM transmission costs.

There is some doubt if there would be any uplift in listener numbers if Rock Radio was on the Central Scotland DAB mux. I would have thought Rock would want carriage at 128 kbts stereo (none of this 80 kbts mono nonsense on D2 SDL) and that would be heading towards £100,000 or thereabouts. Maybe DAB will follow when there is good cash flow.
Agreed and to clarify, he said "as early as next April.."
Radio_Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 11:27
stv viewer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 9,624
Would 112 kbts not be good enough for Rock Radio or does the central mux not provide that im not very technically minded. Also is there not space on the glasgow mux at 80kbts but that might not be the best option
stv viewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 14:51
Radio_Geek
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 433
Would 112 kbts not be good enough for Rock Radio or does the central mux not provide that im not very technically minded. Also is there not space on the glasgow mux at 80kbts but that might not be the best option
My idea was that they would bring back their Edinburgh listeners, like they did in the GMG era. But I assume that the central mux was for them to convince more advertisers, rather than having a weak 500 watt transmiter for broadcast. It's certainly something that did them no harm and would encourage former listeners of Rocksport, Clyde, Gold and XFM to listen in on their DAB sets.
Radio_Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 16:01
Craig Kelly
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,545
Would 112 kbts not be good enough for Rock Radio or does the central mux not provide that im not very technically minded. Also is there not space on the glasgow mux at 80kbts but that might not be the best option
112 kbts stereo is the normal Global stations carriage for Heart, Smooth and Capital. Clyde 1 and Clyde 2 are on 128 kbts stereo.

Transmitting at 80 kbts mono is not great for a rock station, particularly for in-car listening with well positioned stereo effect. Just listen to any of the mono music stations on D2 SDL like Virgin. The music is produced for full stereo.
Craig Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 16:15
Craig Kelly
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,545
My idea was that they would bring back their Edinburgh listeners, like they did in the GMG era. But I assume that the central mux was for them to convince more advertisers, rather than having a weak 500 watt transmiter for broadcast. It's certainly something that did them no harm and would encourage former listeners of Rocksport, Clyde, Gold and XFM to listen in on their DAB sets.
It is the cost of carriage on the DAB mux that will determine if Rock Radio is on DAB at launch, but I doubt it. There is also the incremental fees for RAJAR in a wider area. It all adds up. There is no licence requirement for DAB carriage until the licence is due for re-advertising in 2029 - all long way off!

The previous (and original) 96.3 FM transmitter was licensed for 100W ERP vertical with mixed polarisation, therefore 200W mixed was used until the closure last September of 96.3 Xfm. This NEW licence is for 2kW vertical with mixed pol. the ERP will be 4kW.

As a comparison Clyde 1 transmits on 102.5 from the top of the Black Hill mast with 13kW vertical ERP and 11.5 kW horizontal, therefore 24.5kW ERP mixed compared to the new Rock Radio which has been allocated 4kW mixed.
Craig Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 16:19
SouthCity
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,475
112 kbts stereo is the normal Global stations carriage for Heart, Smooth and Capital. Clyde 1 and Clyde 2 are on 128 kbts stereo.

Transmitting at 80 kbts mono is not great for a rock station, particularly for in-car listening with well positioned stereo effect. Just listen to any of the mono music stations on D2 SDL like Virgin. The music is produced for full stereo.
All of those 112k stations are owned by large groups, so the carriage fees are not significant to them. A small group like Rock Radio won't be able to afford the extra bit rate. If they are on DAB it will be no more than 80k, like other small independent stations on the platform.

I think they might leave it a year and see how the financial results look. They won't welcome the prospect of the BBC launching a permanent Radio Scotland "Music Extra" station, which might play a lot of rock music.
SouthCity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2016, 17:15
Black Label
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Shawlands, Glasgow
Posts: 3,025
It is the cost of carriage on the DAB mux that will determine if Rock Radio is on DAB at launch, but I doubt it. There is also the incremental fees for RAJAR in a wider area. It all adds up. There is no licence requirement for DAB carriage until the licence is due for re-advertising in 2029 - all long way off!
96.3 of old were only on DAB due to guarantee of licence renewal, and it therefore was an ongoing condition of the licence. In 1999 IRG, owners of (then) 96.3QFM signed up for this to prevent readvertisal that year. This was just after a hotly contested competition for the regional licence Beat 106 won, and the perception was that many of the unsucessful bidders may have gone after 96.3 if it was put to open contest.

In practice, being on DAB proved to be a large albatross around the neck of the station for a long time.

Nowadays there is a much stronger argument for Rock Radio going on DAB which is that a significant minority of listening is done this way, and arguably, likely listeners are much more likely to be doing so because fans of rock type music are so well catered to on DAB already.

But as you say Rock faces a very hefty annual fee for use of that Cathkin site so may be glad of the no DAB obligation for the moment.
Black Label is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2016, 06:07
hanssolo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,572
96.3 of old were only on DAB due to guarantee of licence renewal, and it therefore was an ongoing condition of the licence. In 1999 IRG, owners of (then) 96.3QFM signed up for this to prevent readvertisal that year. This was just after a hotly contested competition for the regional licence Beat 106 won, and the perception was that many of the unsucessful bidders may have gone after 96.3 if it was put to open contest.

In practice, being on DAB proved to be a large albatross around the neck of the station for a long time.

Nowadays there is a much stronger argument for Rock Radio going on DAB which is that a significant minority of listening is done this way, and arguably, likely listeners are much more likely to be doing so because fans of rock type music are so well catered to on DAB already.

But as you say Rock faces a very hefty annual fee for use of that Cathkin site so may be gilad of the no DAB obligation for the moment.
Although the station will probably now not go on DAB at launch, hopefully if it is successful could go DAB+ stereo later at lower cost which will expand coverage area?.
hanssolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2016, 09:28
Craig Kelly
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,545
Although the station will probably now not go on DAB at launch, hopefully if it is successful could go DAB+ stereo later at lower cost which will expand coverage area?.
DAB+ maybe lower carriage charges, but that also equates to lower access to the audience.

Under 50% of households have a DAB digital radio receiver and even less so in cars, then that is further reduced by DAB+.

Ofcom state in their Annual Market Report for Scotland: "In 2016, ownership of DAB digital radios in Scotland (36%) is lower than the UK average (50%). Radio listeners in rural areas of Scotland are more likely to own a DAB set (45%) compared to those in urban areas (34%)."

After more then 16 years on-air, taking carriage on a DAB digital radio mux is still not commercially viable.
Craig Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:44.