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Why Is Karren Vilified For Only Doing Her Job - And Claude Is Not ?


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Old 28-10-2016, 11:25
BelfastGuy125
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As far as spouting rubbish goes that takes some beating.
I admit the wording was a bit hyperbolic but the principle stands. She was a major part of West Ham's push for their stadium. A stadium which has worked out an incredible deal for them, a stadium the tax payer ultimately paid for.
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Old 28-10-2016, 11:25
KornerKabin
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Karren has been turned into a grimacing, rubber-faced Pantomime Dame over the last few series.

They're obviously trying to recreate Margaret's cutting looks with Baroness B but it's never worked. Whereas Margaret came over as a disapproving auntie who you wouldn't step out of line for, Karren comes across as little more than a snivelling bitch with a Goddess-complex.

EDIT: I actually quite like Karren as a person but I just wish that the show would allow her to be herself rather than trying to make her into an evil version of Margaret.
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Old 28-10-2016, 11:47
madetomeasure
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The pouting, bitchy comments, especially "you do make a mean cup of tea", which highlights her hypocrisy. I wonder if she would have made that statement to a woman? If you want another example of her hypocrisy when it comes to sexism, it's ok for her to boast about pulling Barry Fry out of the Brum City showers and laughing about the fact that she handed him a flannel/small towel to adequately cover his privates. She discriminates towards women whilst putting men down....not good. Strong woman? Yes because of recovering from her operation, no for being where she is today; that's called being born into it. She typifies the it's not what you know mantra.
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Old 28-10-2016, 11:57
lammtarra
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The pouting, bitchy comments, especially "you do make a mean cup of tea", which highlights her hypocrisy. I wonder if she would have made that statement to a woman? If you want another example of her hypocrisy when it comes to sexism, it's ok for her to boast about pulling Barry Fry out of the Brum City showers and laughing about the fact that she handed him a flannel/small towel to adequately cover his privates. She discriminates towards women whilst putting men down....not good. Strong woman? Yes because of recovering from her operation, no for being where she is today; that's called being born into it. She typifies the it's not what you know mantra.
Watch it again. "You do make a mean cup of tea" was obviously a lighthearted and friendly remark.
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Old 28-10-2016, 12:04
madetomeasure
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Watch it again. "You do make a mean cup of tea" was obviously a lighthearted and friendly remark.
If it had come from anybody but her, I might agree. I've seen too much of Karren on you Tube videos and in football to see why she can have criticism aimed at her. Yes, much of it are idiotic male football fans but here's a taste of why I don't like her: she says Alan to me, Lord Sugar to you in one video when talking to her audience. I can't help thinking her 'humour' always has an underlying sense of self-admiration.
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Old 28-10-2016, 12:26
lammtarra
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If it had come from anybody but her, I might agree. I've seen too much of Karren on you Tube videos and in football to see why she can have criticism aimed at her. Yes, much of it are idiotic male football fans but here's a taste of why I don't like her: she says Alan to me, Lord Sugar to you in one video when talking to her audience. I can't help thinking her 'humour' always has an underlying sense of self-admiration.
You have the advantage over me. I see Karren only on The Apprentice, where she performs well enough and I cannot say that I've noticed any of the issues commonly raised: sneering, bias or whatever.

As it happens, I do think Karren's analysis is often wrong and heavily tainted by hindsight, though not yet this series, but those are not the criticisms levelled here.
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Old 28-10-2016, 12:36
madetomeasure
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You have the advantage over me. I see Karren only on The Apprentice, where she performs well enough and I cannot say that I've noticed any of the issues commonly raised: sneering, bias or whatever.

As it happens, I do think Karren's analysis is often wrong and heavily tainted by hindsight, though not yet this series, but those are not the criticisms levelled here.
She's a funny character in a way in that I've heard or read mixed views on those who have met her, Lammtarra..one minute she's meant to be nice, then a bitch to work for. I live not far from Brum City which she managed. Probably the thing I DO admire her for is the way she's ignored the disgusting abuse she gets from some male footy fans.
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Old 28-10-2016, 13:50
Cats_Eyes
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I admit the wording was a bit hyperbolic but the principle stands. She was a major part of West Ham's push for their stadium. A stadium which has worked out an incredible deal for them, a stadium the tax payer ultimately paid for.
Well if that is the case - and do you really think she did it all on her own ? - then she is very good at business - which is why she is in this programme.

I think also that she is one of the very few who has not direct link to Sugar - so why ?

And how many things other things that the tax payer have ultimately paid for ? - you can write a book
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Old 28-10-2016, 14:17
Cats_Eyes
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She's a funny character in a way in that I've heard or read mixed views on those who have met her, Lammtarra..one minute she's meant to be nice, then a bitch to work for. I live not far from Brum City which she managed. Probably the thing I DO admire her for is the way she's ignored the disgusting abuse she gets from some male footy fans.
Many strong women are - that is how they have got there - because it is still not easy for a women to get to the top - sad but true.

I worked for two women National Editors and at the side of them Karren is a just a sweetheart !
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Old 28-10-2016, 15:13
madetomeasure
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Many strong women are - that is how they have got there - because it is still not easy for a women to get to the top - sad but true.

I worked for two women National Editors and at the side of them Karren is a just a sweetheart !
Yes, from photos I've seen of her at awards, must admit, she seems warm. I was told when she was at Blues, she personally handed all the girls in her bank chocolates and a bottle of wine each. There seems to be a parodox at times with her Cats. I guess to be strong minded as a woman, being single minded and determined is seen as a sin.
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Old 28-10-2016, 16:50
Messaroundabit
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Why on earth does anyone equate 'being strong' with demeaning other human beings. It is the opposite - it shows real weakness in character.

When someone is shown to be revelling in putting others done heartlessly - as Karren does every single week - it merely exposes a really fundamental character weakness for all to see. Totally unnecessary for a multi-millionaire to behave in that manner.

She should be deeply deeply ashamed.
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Old 28-10-2016, 18:59
Super_Furry
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Many strong women are - that is how they have got there - because it is still not easy for a women to get to the top - sad but true.

I worked for two women National Editors and at the side of them Karren is a just a sweetheart !
A strong woman is not the same thing as a bitch.
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Old 28-10-2016, 20:02
Messaroundabit
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It has nothing to do with the thread, but just to be clear:

1. Karren was on a massive 7 figure personal bonus to get the Olympic Stadium deal done on terms favorable to her club.

2. The deal absolutely screwed the public purse, and thereby taxpayers, massively.

3. Surprise, surprise morality and public interest were put second a million miles behind personal financial gain.

4. The club is currently lacking class more than any other club in England.
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Old 28-10-2016, 22:14
Alex_McNamee
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I dislike Karren probably for a slightly different reason to everyone else. To me, it seems like she chastises the contestants regardless of what they do. I remember last year when Jenny was fired for buying nothing and "not asking the head chef", the latter of which Karren had criticised her for. Had Jenny asked the chef, Karren would have criticised her for wasting time.

She also seems to almost "take over" from Lord Sugar at times. Margaret and Nick very rarely - if ever - interacted with tasks, whereas Karren seems to fairly frequently question the contestants on what they're doing and such, and chimes in the boardroom. "...are not skills Lord Sugar is looking for, Natalie." As if she, herself, knows better than him. Claude knows when to say something and what to say.
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Old 29-10-2016, 08:39
Cats_Eyes
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A strong woman is not the same thing as a bitch.
I my experience - and I have been around the block a few times - it often is.
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Old 29-10-2016, 08:46
Cats_Eyes
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I dislike Karren probably for a slightly different reason to everyone else. To me, it seems like she chastises the contestants regardless of what they do. I remember last year when Jenny was fired for buying nothing and "not asking the head chef", the latter of which Karren had criticised her for. Had Jenny asked the chef, Karren would have criticised her for wasting time.

She also seems to almost "take over" from Lord Sugar at times. Margaret and Nick very rarely - if ever - interacted with tasks, whereas Karren seems to fairly frequently question the contestants on what they're doing and such, and chimes in the boardroom. "...are not skills Lord Sugar is looking for, Natalie." As if she, herself, knows better than him. Claude knows when to say something and what to say.
As I have said earlier - she does not have a direct link to Sugar ( I don't think at least ).

So another view perhaps.
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Old 29-10-2016, 10:31
Sick n Sexified
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I respect what she's achieved in her career from a young age, and her advocacy for feminism, but at the end of the day she's not right for TV. Not charismatic enough.
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Old 29-10-2016, 13:27
Messaroundabit
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So, to summarize, we have a clear overwhelming consensus as an answer to the question posed in this thread:

Karren is NOT vilified; she receives very justifiable criticism as a result of her negative, catty and totally underwhelming performance in her role.

Claude does not receive such criticism because he is much classier and his contributions are more reasonable and constructive.

Couldn't be a clearer conclusion.
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Old 29-10-2016, 17:15
lammtarra
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So, to summarize, we have a clear overwhelming consensus as an answer to the question posed in this thread:

Karren is NOT vilified; she receives very justifiable criticism as a result of her negative, catty and totally underwhelming performance in her role.

Claude does not receive such criticism because he is much classier and his contributions are more reasonable and constructive.

Couldn't be a clearer conclusion.
Indeed, the contrast between Claude and Karren could not have been made more obvious in this week's episode at Liberty's, where Karren pointed out the personal shoppers should have established the customer's tastes and budget -- clearly superfluous information since all of us earn high six figure salaries and use personal shoppers each week on our visits to London's West End.

Whereas Claude far more helpfully critiqued the window display of handbags, saying "I don't get it," and "it's lost on me". Not to mention that he'd "eat his shorts".

Karren must go. Or maybe it is easy to cherry-pick evidence to suit our prejudices.
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Old 29-10-2016, 18:11
Cats_Eyes
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Indeed, the contrast between Claude and Karren could not have been made more obvious in this week's episode at Liberty's, where Karren pointed out the personal shoppers should have established the customer's tastes and budget -- clearly superfluous information since all of us earn high six figure salaries and use personal shoppers each week on our visits to London's West End.

Whereas Claude far more helpfully critiqued the window display of handbags, saying "I don't get it," and "it's lost on me". Not to mention that he'd "eat his shorts".

Karren must go. Or maybe it is easy to cherry-pick evidence to suit our prejudices.


Very good lammtarra - but I am sure you know it won't make a blind bit of notice for some people ( one in particular ) for the reason you state and which I have now highlighted.

When I made this thread I mentioned of tunnel vision - and it is with some.
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Old 29-10-2016, 18:56
Anne_Morris_Cow
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She is contempuous of, condescending towards and dismissive about other human beings, with a horrible sour face. This does not constitute doing her job, which could be done much more effectively without any of these thoroughly unnecessary characteristics.
Consequently she fully deserves all the criticism she receives for doing a very highly paid job inadequately.

Claude is not.

I totally second this .that awful sneering contemptious look on her face ,loving putting people participating down .Claude does not have the same unfortunate patronising manner ..simple as that
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Old 29-10-2016, 19:09
Super_Furry
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[/b]
When I made this thread I mentioned of tunnel vision - and it is with some.
Nice of you to finally admit it.
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Old 29-10-2016, 19:21
sorcha_healy27
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Indeed, the contrast between Claude and Karren could not have been made more obvious in this week's episode at Liberty's, where Karren pointed out the personal shoppers should have established the customer's tastes and budget -- clearly superfluous information since all of us earn high six figure salaries and use personal shoppers each week on our visits to London's West End.

Whereas Claude far more helpfully critiqued the window display of handbags, saying "I don't get it," and "it's lost on me". Not to mention that he'd "eat his shorts".

Karren must go. Or maybe it is easy to cherry-pick evidence to suit our prejudices.
What relevance does us not having six figure salaries have to do with this?

Karen was perfectly correct in regards to the personal shopping. The people shopping during the tasks were the ones who did have the salary to do so
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Old 29-10-2016, 20:40
madetomeasure
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[/b]Very good lammtarra - but I am sure you know it won't make a blind bit of notice for some people ( one in particular ) for the reason you state and which I have now highlighted.

When I made this thread I mentioned of tunnel vision - and it is with some.
And the same could be said of your tunnel vision in that the woman cannot do any wrong. You also seem to base much of your synopsis of what you've seen on her career background rather than how lucky she was to be catapulted into working with high profile businessmen. Many of us could be strong women once we'd been gifted a career. In the early days, Sullivan even admitted he'd put her into Blues as an attractive young woman who would make an impact based on being a young woman, which would and did shock a few in football. Much of what I heard say when she took up MD in 1993 is now distorted in her favour. I guess it sounds more impressive to say SHE was the one who thought about the buying the club, when she gives her 'motivational' speeches, when the truth is THEY wanted to turn their attention to football. Unless you have seen more of her than on the Apprentice, it's easy to see she's great.
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Old 29-10-2016, 23:02
Cats_Eyes
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[quote=madetomeasure;84387674]And the same could be said of your tunnel vision in that the woman cannot do any wrong. You also seem to base much of your synopsis of what you've seen on her career background rather than how lucky she was to be catapulted into working with high profile businessmen. Many of us could be strong women once we'd been gifted a career. In the early days, Sullivan even admitted he'd put her into Blues as an attractive young woman who would make an impact based on being a young woman, which would and did shock a few in football. Much of what I heard say when she took up MD in 1993 is now distorted in her favour. I guess it sounds more impressive to say SHE was the one who thought about the buying the club, when she gives her 'motivational' speeches, when the truth is THEY wanted to turn their attention to football. Unless you have seen more of her than on the Apprentice, it's easy to see she's great.[/QUOTE



That is not the case at all because she has, and does ,make remarks which can be unfortunate.

But I do object to her being vilified for only doing her job - which is an observer on what happens. Both she and Claude do the same "job" - and he too can be cutting and, indeed nasty - and Sugar most certainly is - she why is it fine for them but not for her ?

You say that I seem to base my opinion on seen her career background and like her because of it so I would say to you - based on your previous posts that you don't like her because of her background - indeed all your reply to me is just that and nothing to do with the Apprentice.

And obviously others share that view and because of that ignore the fact the Claude and Sugar do just the same - worse in fact - but see no problem.

That is what I meant by tunnel vision.
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