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Why Is Karren Vilified For Only Doing Her Job - And Claude Is Not ?


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Old 29-10-2016, 23:38
od hominem
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[/b] I think so too - but tunnel vision is what it says - why many dislike her I have no idea.
Take a look at her voting record in the Lords.
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Old 30-10-2016, 11:07
madetomeasure
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[quote=Cats_Eyes;84390227]
And the same could be said of your tunnel vision in that the woman cannot do any wrong. You also seem to base much of your synopsis of what you've seen on her career background rather than how lucky she was to be catapulted into working with high profile businessmen. Many of us could be strong women once we'd been gifted a career. In the early days, Sullivan even admitted he'd put her into Blues as an attractive young woman who would make an impact based on being a young woman, which would and did shock a few in football. Much of what I heard say when she took up MD in 1993 is now distorted in her favour. I guess it sounds more impressive to say SHE was the one who thought about the buying the club, when she gives her 'motivational' speeches, when the truth is THEY wanted to turn their attention to football. Unless you have seen more of her than on the Apprentice, it's easy to see she's great.[/QUOTE

Sorry, put my response in the wrong place! HERE BELOW ending with the smilies

I've said on this thread, she perplexes me as I sometimes see and hear mixed messages about her. Clare doesn't have to keep chipping in and only offers a comment/view when he finds it necessary. As somebody else has said, Karren interrupts when it hasn't even Ben the task she's been assigned to. She does come across as looking down her nose and I'm afraid many of us football fans had seen her do that many times. She's not going to be judged, therefore, on the Apprentice alone because her reputation precedes her. Sugar exists on the show to be ruthless and making the ultimate decision yet sometimes it seems Karren wants to force her opinion on him.


But I do object to her being vilified for only doing her job - which is an observer on what happens. Both she and Claude do the same "job" - and he too can be cutting and, indeed nasty - and Sugar most certainly is - she why is it fine for them but not for her ?

You say that I seem to base my opinion on seen her career background and like her because of it so I would say to you - based on your previous posts that you don't like her because of her background - indeed all your reply to me is just that and nothing to do with the Apprentice.

And obviously others share that view and because of that ignore the fact the Claude and Sugar do just the same - worse in fact - but see no problem.

That is what I meant by tunnel vision.
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:24
Messaroundabit
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Karren deserves huge criticism for her approach to and execution of this role - nothing to do with how well or badly she does anything else.
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Old 30-10-2016, 13:03
Eve Elle
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we have a clear overwhelming consensus as an answer to the question posed in this thread
Lolololol...

So, when did you get elected as the voice of the people? I must have missed it.

Fact is, if Karen were a man, she'd probably be lauded as a "really funny, top bloke." It seems, for some, it's unacceptable for a woman to be condescending, but "really funny" when Sir Alan does it. Honestly, if she really was as mean spirited as certain people make out? I'd be critical of her too, but that simply isn't the case.
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Old 30-10-2016, 14:42
ShotDownInFlame
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Lolololol...

So, when did you get elected as the voice of the people? I must have missed it.

Fact is, if Karen were a man, she'd probably be lauded as a "really funny, top bloke." It seems, for some, it's unacceptable for a woman to be condescending, but "really funny" when Sir Alan does it. Honestly, if she really was as mean spirited as certain people make out? I'd be critical of her too, but that simply isn't the case.
Actually that person you quoted was right, most of us are quite clearly agreed as to why people aren't fond of Karen and you and the OP seem to be side-stepping the quite valid complaints people have brought up to try and better fit your "misogyny" agenda.

And how on earth would she be regarded as a "really funny, top bloke" if she were a guy? I can't imagine myself ever busting a gut laughing because "Kevin" had just unjustly ripped a candidate a new one, or because "he'd" focussed more on the "boys" business acumen than the "girls". Fact of the matter is if she *were* a bloke, "he" would still be a sniping, passive aggresive, mean-spirited prat.
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Old 30-10-2016, 15:33
Cats_Eyes
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Actually that person you quoted was right, most of us are quite clearly agreed as to why people aren't fond of Karen and you and the OP seem to be side-stepping the quite valid complaints people have brought up to try and better fit your "misogyny" agenda.

And how on earth would she be regarded as a "really funny, top bloke" if she were a guy? I can't imagine myself ever busting a gut laughing because "Kevin" had just unjustly ripped a candidate a new one, or because "he'd" focussed more on the "boys" business acumen than the "girls". Fact of the matter is if she *were* a bloke, "he" would still be a sniping, passive aggresive, mean-spirited prat.
And since when did I use the term misogyny or indeed alluded to it ?

By all means make a point but don't make it up as you along - and even more so do not include me in your sweeping statement because you are wrong.
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Old 30-10-2016, 15:51
sorcha_healy27
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Actually that person you quoted was right, most of us are quite clearly agreed as to why people aren't fond of Karen and you and the OP seem to be side-stepping the quite valid complaints people have brought up to try and better fit your "misogyny" agenda.

And how on earth would she be regarded as a "really funny, top bloke" if she were a guy? I can't imagine myself ever busting a gut laughing because "Kevin" had just unjustly ripped a candidate a new one, or because "he'd" focussed more on the "boys" business acumen than the "girls". Fact of the matter is if she *were* a bloke, "he" would still be a sniping, passive aggresive, mean-spirited prat.
You're certainly extremely defensive
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Old 30-10-2016, 16:29
Eve Elle
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Actually that person you quoted was right, most of us are quite clearly agreed as to why people aren't fond of Karen
Well, the newly elected DS People's Representative does not speak for me sir. Nor many others from what I can tell. Perhaps a recount is in order?

and you and the OP seem to be side-stepping the quite valid complaints people have brought up to try and better fit your "misogyny" agenda.
I side stepped nothing. Karen can come across as a little snarky, but so what? Should we go grab some torches/pitchforks and burn the witch?

And how on earth would she be regarded as a "really funny, top bloke" if she were a guy? I can't imagine myself ever busting a gut laughing because "Kevin" had just unjustly ripped a candidate a new one, or because "he'd" focussed more on the "boys" business acumen than the "girls". Fact of the matter is if she *were* a bloke, "he" would still be a sniping, passive aggresive, mean-spirited prat.
Like Sir Alan you mean?
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Old 30-10-2016, 17:07
Cats_Eyes
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Well, the newly elected DS People's Representative does not speak for me sir. Nor many others from what I can tell. Perhaps a recount is in order?



I side stepped nothing. Karen can come across as a little snarky, but so what? Should we go grab some torches/pitchforks and burn the witch?



Like Sir Alan you mean?
Wonderful Elle - very funny and very true

And "the newly elected DS People's Representative " - priceless !
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Old 30-10-2016, 17:19
ShotDownInFlame
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You're certainly extremely defensive
I've made 2 posts in this entire thread (now 3). Hardly being "extremely defensive" am I? I'm just pointing out that people have raised various fair points on why Karen isn't universally everyone's cup of tea.

And since when did I use the term misogyny or indeed alluded to it ?

By all means make a point but don't make it up as you along - and even more so do not include me in your sweeping statement because you are wrong.
I will admit this bit I fudged up and reading back it wasn't you who asserted such claims, but certain people in this thread did claim that and I think that's really unfair to just brush off all criticism of Karen as "oh well you must just be sexist then".

Well, the newly elected DS People's Representative does not speak for me sir. Nor many others from what I can tell. Perhaps a recount is in order?

I side stepped nothing. Karen can come across as a little snarky, but so what? Should we go grab some torches/pitchforks and burn the witch?

Like Sir Alan you mean?
The whole point of this thread is why Claude gets off easy compared to Karen so there's your answer: Claude is very rarely snarky. In fact, as a "task assisstant" he rarely says *anything* unless it's pointing out to either the camera or to LS in the boardroom when a team or particular candidate has done something exceedingly well or not-so-exceedingly-well.

Where as Karen has made some off-beat and quite personal comments to various candidates to them theirselves in the boardroom and that is why people may have a tendency to moan about Karen more than Claude.

As for Sir Alan, yes, he is a complete mean-spirited prat.
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Old 30-10-2016, 17:35
sorcha_healy27
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Claude was horrible when he was one of the interview team.
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Old 30-10-2016, 18:25
Cats_Eyes
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Claude was horrible when he was one of the interview team.
Quite Sorcha and furthermore many here thought he was great for doing that - they lapped it up !

I think that Karren is fair - she once gave one person on the show a job because she could see the potential - but it's possible that she does not suffer fools lightly - and many of them are fools. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

She is a excellent business woman so when she sees these people who claim to have a business brain and clearly they do have not then it may offend her.
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Old 30-10-2016, 18:56
Messaroundabit
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It is not Karren's job to demean, dismiss and make derogatory comments towards other human beings and it is this that she appears to revel in. Hence the very justified criticism.
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Old 30-10-2016, 19:17
sorcha_healy27
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Quite Sorcha and furthermore many here thought he was great for doing that - they lapped it up !

I think that Karren is fair - she once gave one person on the show a job because she could see the potential - but it's possible that she does not suffer fools lightly - and many of them are fools. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

She is a excellent business woman so when she sees these people who claim to have a business brain and clearly they do have not then it may offend her.
Well said. I also don't think her comments are any harsher than Margarets were either.

She doesn't suffer fools but neither does anyone on here
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Old 30-10-2016, 19:33
Messaroundabit
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Her performance is so disgraceful, Karren should be relieved of her duties immediately.
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Old 30-10-2016, 20:40
ShotDownInFlame
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Claude may have been horrible as an interviewer but this is quite widely acknowledged to be grossly, GROSSLY exaggerated for the cameras, especially as Claude as a task assistant, and on his various YF appearances has shown himself to be quite a reasonable, (comparatively) considerate man.

If you're going to compare Claude and Karen you have to compare how they handle following the teams around and as I said in my previous post, Claude avoids making personal comments on candidates which is something Karen indulges in on occasion.
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Old 30-10-2016, 21:20
Messaroundabit
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Hmmm, given the overwhelming and persistent evidence showing Karren's essential and unnecessary nastiness, and the continual testimony to that effect from a stream iof spectators, it seems that the only possible conclusion is that a small number of people are simply prejudiced in their viewpoint - maybe they have have "tunnel vision"?
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Old 30-10-2016, 21:21
Cats_Eyes
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Claude may have been horrible as an interviewer but this is quite widely acknowledged to be grossly, GROSSLY exaggerated for the cameras, especially as Claude as a task assistant, and on his various YF appearances has shown himself to be quite a reasonable, (comparatively) considerate man.

If you're going to compare Claude and Karen you have to compare how they handle following the teams around and as I said in my previous post, Claude avoids making personal comments on candidates which is something Karen indulges in on occasion.
Does he - so when Sugar asks of for a opinion when it gets to the situation of firing he never speaks then ?

You must have a different TV to me.
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Old 30-10-2016, 21:35
Cats_Eyes
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[quote=Messaroundabit;84400576]Hmmm, given the overwhelming and persistent evidence showing Karren's essential and unnecessary nastiness, and the continual testimony to that effect from a stream iof spectators, it seems that the only possible conclusion is that a small number of people are simply prejudiced in their viewpoint - maybe they have have "tunnel vision"?[/QUOTE]



So when we meet you in the tunnel wear a pink carnation so we know it's you.

I should not like to be rude.
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Old 30-10-2016, 22:04
ShotDownInFlame
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Does he - so when Sugar asks of for a opinion when it gets to the situation of firing he never speaks then ?

You must have a different TV to me.
Not what I'm saying at all.

Of course he makes comments to reflect how candidates did on the task and gives relevant feedback.

But he never makes comments on how candidates clash with one another or personality traits or irrelevant info such as Karen's "(JD) makes a mean cup of tea" this week.

As I've said multiple times now, Claude only says what's needed of him and pretty much nothing more than that. Which is why people don't take much umbrage with what he says because he speaks out so infrequently.
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Old 30-10-2016, 22:15
Cats_Eyes
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Not what I'm saying at all.

Of course he makes comments to reflect how candidates did on the task and gives relevant feedback.

But he never makes comments on how candidates clash with one another or personality traits or irrelevant info such as Karen's "(JD) makes a mean cup of tea" this week.

As I've said multiple times now, Claude only says what's needed of him and pretty much nothing more than that. Which is why people don't take much umbrage with what he says because he speaks out so infrequently.
You must really must dislike her - even a blind man could see that was a joke.
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Old 30-10-2016, 22:20
lammtarra
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Not what I'm saying at all.

Of course he makes comments to reflect how candidates did on the task and gives relevant feedback.

But he never makes comments on how candidates clash with one another or personality traits or irrelevant info such as Karen's "(JD) makes a mean cup of tea" this week.

As I've said multiple times now, Claude only says what's needed of him and pretty much nothing more than that. Which is why people don't take much umbrage with what he says because he speaks out so infrequently.
You do realise Karren was paying him a compliment? And you seem to have missed Claude's comments on Mukai in the boardroom this week.
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Old 30-10-2016, 22:45
Messaroundabit
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Claude TO Mukai is a brilliant example. He spoke TO Mukai criticizing him in a soft neutral tone, to which Mukai responded that he accepted Claude's point.

Compare and contrast Karren's "not skills that Lord Sugar is looking for" said in a mocking derogatory tone, designed to humiliate the individual in public and make them feel bad about themselves.

Brilliant example of the two approaches - Claude adult to adult direct and calm; Karren adult to child, scolding and vindictive, with a genuine scowl for effect.

Really good evidence of the respective approaches, exposing the different characteristics of the two people.

Karren should go. Nasty piece of work.
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Old 31-10-2016, 00:25
ShotDownInFlame
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You must really must dislike her - even a blind man could see that was a joke.
It's true that I did dislike her between Series 7 and 9 because that was the period where I think her comments most stood out and were frequently on the "uncalled for" side of things, but am now of total indifference to her because:

a) She clearly isn't going anywhere regardless what any of us here think of her
b) She's no longer appearing alongside Nick so arguably Karen is now the more "charismatic" of the two assistants
c) The show is so drenched in conflict and drama these days that even the most off-beat of Karen's comments is just par for the course at this point.

I did not single that particular comment out as an example of a "bitchy" comment, I fully understand it was a joke, I was simply saying it was an irrelevant comment, one that was unnecessary. And she often makes unnecessary comments that may be jokes, but on worser days are simple snipes at the contestants.

Again, I am simply stating why people may talk about Karen more negatively than Claude who - even compared to Nick and Margaret - is a more reserved "task assistant" and very rarely says or does anything more than highlighting a candidate's skills (or lack thereof) on a task. I'm just trying to answer the question that you posed when creating this thread and don't understand why this seems to be turning into an argument.
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Old 31-10-2016, 06:42
lammtarra
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Claude TO Mukai is a brilliant example. He spoke TO Mukai criticizing him in a soft neutral tone, to which Mukai responded that he accepted Claude's point.

Compare and contrast Karren's "not skills that Lord Sugar is looking for" said in a mocking derogatory tone, designed to humiliate the individual in public and make them feel bad about themselves.
Karren's "not the skills" comment, as has been pointed out more than once already, was clearly to prompt Natalie into saying what else she could do and had done. If you think about it, that must be the case because Karren *knows* that Lord Sugar knows what he is looking for.
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