Thank god for some positivity!


I agree. I find it hilarious when people (both on here and social media) claim that this is the worst the show has ever been, when in fact it was far worse between 2010-2012, and sunk to new depths of low in 2013, but apparently it's worse now when there is SO much bubbling away.

One thing I've noticed is the huge lack of spoilers and I find this to be a very good thing. When I was creating last night's episode thread, the official BBC spoilers are literally one sentence long, compared to the ones obtained from the Radio Times and What's On TV, which were a paragraph each. EE never usually gives much away regarding spoilers anyway but it has really been scaled back in recent months and it's been great.

We also seem to be getting more dramatic duff duffs (well, for me anyway) and the stabbing at the school seems like a pretty shocking storyline too, even though we didn't 'see' the stabbing take place instead the story focuses on the effects on the characters. It will be interesting if it involves Denny and Will, Denny especially since his dad was killed by being stabbed.

Us long term EE viewers - who remembers the show pre-Dierdrick Santer sensationalist peroid - are thankful SOC is taking the show more seriously with better, and more realistic, writing.

It isn't the boring drivel Newman gave us, but it isn't the over-the-top laughable tripe DTC and Kirkwood gave us either. It's a good inbetween.

A hark back to the days of the likes of Julia Smith and Matthew Robinson in the 80s and 90s.

Remember when BBC4 aired the two-hander episode from Antonia Bird a few months back, featuring only Den and Ange? It was acclaimed at the time. Could you imagine the whingers watching it now?

I wouldn't call myself a long term viewer, mainly watched since 2004 ish but I'm a young viewer, if anything I should be on the slamming brigade calling it crap. But honestly, it is so enjoyable right now, it's amazing what the little things do like improving the writing and the characterisation, the introduction of more realistic stories improves it no end. Lots of the storylines are real life and issue based, like Lee's Depression, Phil's Liver, the school stabbing, Denise's pregnancy, Jay dealing, Dot's eyesight etc they're all relatable and realistic and even though the show isn't completely realistic, I'd say it's more so than it has been in the last few years. I look forward to watching it, and it's silly really because there's nothing hugely high profile going on, just stories bubbling away under the surface and it's all building up to something.

That two hander episode was fantastic to watch, it was great from start to finish and had some real powerhouse performances, with a real dynamic between Den and Angie.

Look, I agree with everyone here, I probably would be a better producer, but you can't just expect me to drop everything. Not when carefully laid plans are in motion.

Thanks.

I'm only 24 myself, but a degree student of TV and Film - which is why I'm a bit sad and look back at the older episodes and think positively.

I can first properly remember 1998 when Tiffany was killed by Frank and Steve Owen was being introduced. If you watch it back it had slow build ups. Nothing was rushed. Tiffany dying had such an impact because of the time spent on the story.

Unfortunately since the mid-noughties, stories were rushed and became more absurd in a bid to become more relevent and win ratings. Nowadays it's all people know, so when SOC reverts to the older style it gets called "boring".

Dare I say that the criticisms of SOC shows how dumbed down soap operas have become. It sounds a bit snobby but I think it's true. Unless there's explosions, murders or silly attention grabbing stories, no-one wants to know.

I sense that there's been another slight shift in style over the last few episodes. More is happening, the show is a touch pacier and the duff-duffs have returned to being more cliff-hangery. The better writing, dialogue and banter is still there but stories have moved along a bit more, so I guess we're now in the position where SOC's stories are taking over properly and the show can move forward. The past couple of months have been slow at times, yes, perhaps a little too slow but it has enabled the improved dialogue to flourish and the characters to regain some personality and realism. I think it also perhaps indicates just how much of DTC's plans were junked by SOC, so heaven knows what we've been saved from!!

The lack of spoilers is refreshing and once people accept the change it should allow the show to do the talking, although it will be reactively. which isn't a bad thing. As tempting as spoilers can be, there's simply not the same tension watching something when you know more or less how it's going to play out. None of the spoilers being put out these days or published in the listings magazines actually say anything, they appear to tell you what's coming up but are so vague and loosely worded that you can't take anything from them. Creative writing at its best?!


To my mind, soaps are at their best when they do long-running storylines properly and Brookside was a master at it. EE too but so much sensationalism and people seemingly having a shorter attention span these days, causes people to label such plots as "boring", like you say. I've even seen comments that Denise's pregnancy or Phil's liver transplant have been dragged out! I ask you! Part of the skill with soap operas is to set things up that can be picked up on in the future, not necessarily two or three months hence but many years down the line. It gives options but the worst thing that can happen is you get someone like DTC coming along who can't resist mopping up all these loose ends rather than leaving things for future producers which really should be part of the EP's job given that they are only ever caretaking a show for a few years, not wrapping it up.

^^^
I really agree with your final paragraph TenBen. DTC's production style was hugely selfish and has written several characters into corners. That's not good for a long running show as you say.

Maybe we can all just agree EastEnders suffers a long line of incompetent producers.
A shame really. I'm sure its a cursed show.

It is clear there is a divide between viewers on here, but can certain users claiming those who are calling it boring are uneducated about EastEnders and have no idea what it was like pre Santer. I have watched EastEnders since 2007, but have also seen plenty of episodes from previous years on Dailymotion, etc... I don't think EastEnders at the moment resembles anything of how it was in the 80's and 90's, other than the fact characters are slightly nicer to each over.

Also, a family member who has watched EastEnders since the very first episode and has said they've never found it more boring. Please don't assume the 'whingers' know nothing about Classic EastEnders. It's just insulting.

In terms of the show currently, I'm finding it rather mixed. One episode can be written really well, and there seems to be a clear direction, then the following episode is just pure drivel. There's just nothing exciting making the show tick at the moment. It can be very mundane and predictable at times, which is never good for a soap. The recent positive development of Kathy's character has been refreshing.

I like that it's not all sensationalist stories. I like that Phil hasn't recovered yet, previous producers would have had him right as rain in weeks (think his laughable crack addiction). Denise being laid off for being pregnant and Kim learning to drive are everyday things that happen.

I also like that they have finally taken Billy and given him a purpose and they have got Jay working with him. That Billy is the one that is supporting Jay. Ben getting updates from Pam and Les on their new house has been a nice touch.

It's well acted and I find it much more memorable than under DTC in the sense that episodes are so character based it's easy to remember them when discussing with friends or colleagues the next day.

The assumption that anyone finding it dull have short attention spans and only want 'sensationlism' is also irritating.
Sensationalism too much of it, gets on my nerves its the reason Hollyoaks pretty much got ruined beyond repair by Kirkwood.
I don't want sensationalism, just good storylines and interesting characters!!
Again, EastEnders is trailing behind all.the other soaps in this respect. Nothing is being done. It needs a bloody rocket up the arse.

What would I do? Bring in some fiery new characters and a few classics. Starting with reestablishing the Mitchell family , bring back Kim Medcalfs Sam Mitchell!!

Great post. I completely agree!

I think it's great!

All most people want is a happy medium, but in my opinion there isn't one. EE is currently like watching paint dry in slow motion. The cast is too small, most of them overused and severely lacking in new blood. There are also the likes of Carmel, Shakil, Abi etc. who are just dead end characters that need to go. Shakil in particular is one of the worst actors I've ever seen in EastEnders. Belinda on the other hand was a character who had enormous potential and now she's gone.

I really do wonder if EastEnders is now past the point of no return, to be honest.

I'm still generally enjoying the re-focusing on character as some of DTC's stories got wildly out of hand, and those are still a bit raw in my mind. Admittedly much of Masood's long goodbye has been tedious and money worries never set the screen alight but there's still nuggets of gold.

I'm not of the mindset the new EP has dispensed with drama completely. I think he's laying the groundwork for some, as someone else mentioned things are already picking a bit.

The smaller moments make us care for characters when something big happens to them.. DTC lost sight of that fact.


For me, Santer was a better producer than DTC as his missteps were generally balanced out by strong elements... unlike the second half of DTC.

Stories like the live burial of Max and Dotty poisoning Dot could give the worst of DTC a run for its money, but for me they weren't as detrimental to Santer's overall era since they didn't rumble on forever with no direction. Nor did these cock-ups severely tarnish several original/long term characters like the Bobby and Mitchells vs. Gavin/Hubbards sagas did. The latter through extensive rewriting of history.

Of course DTC figures in both eras but the EP is generally where the buck stops, Santer shouldn't have greenlit the above, just as DTC shouldn't have greenlit Alex Lamb's out there plots (apart from the return of Kathy of course ). Although I'm inclined to think Lamb and DTC were as bad as each other given the DTC era came to be dominated by such stories, whereas at least with Santer there's enough there to suggest he kept a lid on DTC's more fanciful ideas bar a few occasions.

Going to switch off its becoming unbearable.
Is there any casting news???
Its not the pace I am struggling with, its the not giving a shite about any of these characters and monotonous stories!!

I think Kate Oates could have done a good job on EastEnders. The show needed fresh blood.

Someone doesn't know what EastEnders is meant to reflect.

I agree Santer was better than DTC.

His characters were good (Archie, R&R, Jack, Whitney), he brought back some of the legends (Bianca, Janine, Ricky) and he used the then newer characters well (Max, Tanya, Shirley, Denise).

It was around 2006 that EE started to turn sensationalist for me though. No surprise TC was story producer. The burying Max alive (where have we seen that before?) and Dr May trying to steal Dawn's baby before exploding was ridiculous stuff.

But there was old school EE stories in there as well; Whitney/Bianca paedophile stuff, Max and Stacey and Stacey being sectioned were all good stuff.

So long as SOC doesn't go over-the-top like TC did and gave us more taboo stories, the show will return to it's best.

Do tell

I haven't watched tonight yet. Can't face it,

I just been reading all the posts and I have to ask am I missing the bigger picture??!

People keep saying they love the new focus? What focus? Absolutly nothing has happened? Kim offends disabled people and learns to drive... the never ending bin saga, lee (who we no is leaving so I refuse to invest in)... Deniese having a baby and moaning Libby, I sat there watching her cook her vegan food and I just wanted Lucas to come and smash her brain out with a rake

People are glad there's less spoilers??? There's less spoilers becouse nothing happens,

Spoilers for next week

Kim and her crap

Carmel gurning round the market ( never have I gone off a charter so quick)

Martin and Sonia whoops I mean Stacey, have no money

Sharon and the Mitchell's let Phil get away with being a toss pot yet again

Nothing it's just a pile of sh .... it and everyone who keeps saying this is a great new era please explain what your tuning in for?

Believe me I listen to the archers I love radio 4 - and I love easy viewing I was devistated when they cancelled where the heart is on itv

But this is eastenders.

Bib. I'm certainly not going to do that on your command

You sound angry that there's no more spoilers - or very little - and you're taking it out on SOC.

Lots has happened as pointed out in several threads, and it sounds like lots is going to happen over new year as well in regards to the Mitchell sisters and Denise's baby.

It's not SOC's fault you hate Carmel. She's a fairly popular character otherwise and Langford is a good actor.

If he spoonfed you all the upcoming stories would you be more happy? But then what would be the point in watching if you knew what was going to happen? It's a bit silly to dislike a producer just because he isn't a bit of a media whore like previous producers were.

People have explained why they're happy with the new tone; the characters are starting to feel real again, they're speaking better dialogue, every character seems to have their own storyline, sets are being used better, stories are more realistic and the writing is patient and being set up nicely for the impact.

It's not the scattergun approach like the last 6 years or so. There's no silly stories like people being buried alive. There isn't constant story blocking. There isn't a Carter overload. Stories aren't being rushed onto the next without any time to invest in what just happened (like Ian and Kat's suicide attempts were).

If you hate it so much, just take a break from it. That's what a few people did under DTC. Maybe you'll change your mind.

Excuse me? I'm not commanding anyone. This is a discussion forum you post somthing and the discuss it, I'm sorry if I came accoss like I was ordering people but i just thought it was a discussion topic,