Great episode. I'd say this is the best one yet. Dalek was good, but this was better.

I didn't actually spot any Bad Wold references tonight although apparantly there was some graffiti on the posters. I'm blind.

As for the theory that there's an older version of Rose/The Doctor at the wedding, can anyone post some more images of the people who they're on about?

The music sounded like some of it was from Casanova at the last episode could be wrong though

Thats the main problem, I have with this episode - the Reapers. A better solution would be to have the Dr to resolve the paradoxes. Not some monsters whose role is to keep an eye on paradoxes. Why didn't these creatures come and resolve issues when the Daleks tried to change history or when the Dr does.

They seemed to be there to allow the plot of this weeks episode towork - not to be an integral part of the Dr Who universe

I see the Who Is Doctor Who website has been updated with photos from the wedding

On the "Who Is Doctor Who" website, what does this refer to?

You know, the friendly supply teacher who turned up the day the Headmaster vanished. The strange tourist who rescued survivors from a burning hotel.

The Doctor who visited patients on the wards, changing their medicine and telling them to ignore the strangely smiling nurses.

I love roses - and one day, when I am a very old man, I shall retire and breed them as well.

Becuase its a masive change to someones life. If saving her dad was enough to cause the reapers to kill off the whole of humanity, its surely enough to mean that she would probably have led a different life and would not have been working in the department store.

Buterfly effect and all that _

Captain Jack (the guy with rose in the trail) is from year 5300 and has his own time machine.....

The Doctor did say that there was a time when his people would have stopped the events from happening. Now that the Timelords are not there - perhaps these, er, less discerning creatures have taken it upon themselves to cleanse the timeline...

...the stories up to now haven't seen that much interference in the Timeline.

but what did the doctor say when he saw his time machine?? and another time machine could this be a tardis though sent through time after the war the same way as the dalek was???

Again, this leads me to identify the plot holes. Knowing that the other timelords are not around any more, why the hell did the Dr let Rose go back and watch her dad die so that she could comfort him - TWICE He would never have let such a risk occur when he has such a love for the human race. ! mistake and the whole of the human race dies - Good move Dr.

As far as I can see it, he only did it so that the episode could happen - very contrived IMO.

I don't think that is Rose, if you look here...

http://www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/index8.shtml

and here...

http://www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/

You will see that there is a bridesmade wearing that (or a very similar) pink dress..

However, I could be wrong, lol

But, didn't the Doctor say something about that he and Rose can't be there 3 times just before she saved her dad ?

So if that IS Rose they/she would be there 3 times...

1 - The first time The Doctor and Rose see her dad die

2 - When Rose saves her dad

3 - The bridesmade, if it is her

You could also argue that baby Rose equals 4

That's one of the very many things I loved about this episode, it explained where Rose got her ability to accept the Doctor and the things she's seen from, it linked up beautifully from the episodes before.

*Agent Krycek, still completely in love with this episode*

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Last edited by ONscotland : 14-05-2005 at 22:07

He did take Ace back to Gabriel Chase, and let Ace meet her mother who was then only a baby. But of course the Timelords were about then... but this doctor isn't exactly... sound, is he?

With all this talk of paradoxes (paradoces? whatever) we ought to remember one thing: As it stands in this reality, time-travel does not exist.

Taking this into account, any writer can make up his own rules. Even taking the idea of basing it on previous rules in science fiction, they are so wildly conflicting that there is no set rule in stone (for example H. G. Wells has his time machine moving through time but not space (an idea taken up by the Back to the Future trilogy), whereas Mark Twain has his Conneticut Yankee not only moving through time, but crossing the pond at the same time).

Therefore, you could have the idea that there are parrallel realities, with the effects of their changing history only surfacing when they return to their own reality/time.

However, I do prefer Evil Eye's idea of the reapers being "paradox cleaners", as this is hinted with the Doctor's analogy of the paradox being a wound and reapers being like bacteria. So they're like time-Yakult :P

Further to the answer ONscotland gave, I didn't think thse creatures were attacking people for the good, of the universe, but rather they were taking advantage of the situation and for persoanl gain and at the same time 'clearing up' by devouring all what were stuck in the problem situation.

The Time Lords are no more, not even the Doctor had a Tardis anymore in this epsisode. There was no one and nothing which could even try to 'come in' and save the day from out side, hence it was possible that these creatures could break through and explains why we haven't seen them before.


Well firstly the Doctor thought he could trust Rose. If you trust someone you don't think they will do soemthing as bad as what Rose did. And the Doctor wasn't happy about going back a second time, and warn about the first really. But when you really care about someone....and we have to agree that the Doctor really cares about Rose...then you'll do what you can to make them happy. Maybe the Doctor was foolish to take Rose back, but then where is it stated that he is a super being, always doing the rigth things and never making mistakes?

And given the fact that there usually are Time Lords around who could help sort out the situation isn't it a suprise that the Doctor may not be used to having them there? He has been through alot himslef...we don't know how long ago it was, but we can guess it was very recent from his point of view. He is probably stll very shaken over it all.

The rose one was the only one I could find a picture for she was wearing similar clothes,similar hairstyle and similar looks to rose.There was also a older looking doctor as well in the wedding congregation

As I mentioned after the 'Dalek' episode, the lack of Time Lords leads to all sorts of new possibilities. I thought that RTD's comment in 'Confidential' was interesting, that Dr Who had never done a really interesting time travel story up to now! We have seen both good and bad time travel plots in the various Star Trek series, but this was one of the best I've seen. I voted 'Excellent'.

An older looking CE? But he regenerates at the end of the series, so it can't possibly be him...

Bloody good episode.

Only criticism would have been one less heart-to-heart scene between Rose and her Dad in exchange a slightly less rushed ending.

Still superb though- I think the last 3 episodes have been top notch.

One point on the whole Bad Wolf thing- I'm not an avid follower, but if this is some kind of futuristic equivalent of the Murdoch Corporation, why is it appearing in an episode from the past...was there a reference in The Unquiet Dead too?

Bloody hell - Dr Who never made me cry before; WTF is going on? Talk about heavy stuff, I'm sure I wouldn't have reacted like this if I'd not been a dad, but phew: that was emotional.

Rose's dad was fantastic, now we know where she gets her smarts from (not her mum, that's for sure!) He had it all worked out early on. So did we, but this was never a "story with a twist" episode - it was targeted right at the heart.

I loved the moment when the Doctor opened the Tardis and it was just an empty box - why didn't anyone think of doing that years ago?

Ep #1 didn't really grab me, but this series has grown and grown, and this episode shows that it's not just about spectacle and scares. The reapers were fine, but to be honest - wouldn't it have worked just as well if they'd been simply shadows behind the windows combined with the wobbly red POV shots ? (like they'd have done it in the '80s)

Can't wait for next Saturday !!

I knew what the ending would be, I knew it would be as emotionally maipulative as possible, but I don't think a TV programme has ever made me cry so much. Superb acting by Billie and her "daddy".

For once the episode didn't hinge on the Doctor working things out, but on the emotional journey. It was stunningly obvious how things would be resolved, but as one poster has said, that just added to the tension throughout the episode.

Also, the ending didn't seem rushed, but exactly right, as was the music for the first time! That scene in the playground with young Mickey was really creepy.

And thanks to Doctor Who Confidential, I know which episode it was that was filmed at my cousins house! Woohoo!

I did say that I could be wrong

But it still stands that if the bridesmaid is Rose that means that there would be 3 instances of her there, doesn't it ?

Although The Doctor didn't state why there couldn't be three instances, does anyone have any ideas why ?

The doctor will be Dr Constantine (next weeks episode) I suspect these points will be answered over the next 2 weeks.