Why would the Doctor think Clive is dead? He doesn't even know Clive exists.

RTD has already hinted in Confidential that a certain monster is going to return in an episode set before his death. (That's the monster's death, not RTD's. Obviously.) So it's pretty obvious the someone that the Doctor thinks is dead is going to be...

Flamin' 'eck don't this forum move fast! Just spent hours just trying to catch up. It should slow down now it's Mon morning.

Wifey spotted the blue/brown eyes error. So well done her.

There is some inconsistancy between the episode expanation and the whoisdoctorwho site (surprise surprise). If everyones memories were reset and the time line fixed, then how come the photos have very noticable Reapers in them? Someone would have noticed and asked questions. In fact that wedding would be as notorious worldwide as Roswell for Strange Happenings.

Ho hum! Time travel stories hardly ever make any sense, and SciFi in general can have huge plot holes. It's just better when things tie up. Oh well, if Hollywood can get away with it, I'm sure DW can too.

Hi, I believe a babies eyes can actually change colour: sometimes within a few weeks but usually within the space of several months. You're right about the beautiful deep brown eyes though...

Rather like your own surname is an anagram of bad wolf?
Edit: Didn't see megaresp's post before I posted this.
Last edited by DenWatts : 16-05-2005 at 11:06

If you read the last paragraph of my post, you'll see I say I 'don't buy it.'

From hearing about what others have said on these forums, it could also be Annette Badland's character.

And just because the Doctor never met Clive in the episode 'Rose' that does not mean he has never met him at all - especially as Clive had been 'tracking' the Doctor's movements for years.

Oh, and in Confidential, RTD said we would find out who installed Max at a later date. That doesn't necessarily mean we will see him again.
Last edited by DenWatts : 16-05-2005 at 11:12

I saw it as a Christian way of life. Socialist/Communist way of life means some get more than others (those on top, while the rest are essentially slaves), hardly the importance of the individual at all.

Christianity, socialism, and communism all share the sacrifise of the individual as a central theme.

In Christianity, you're supposedly a slave to Christ. In reality, that means you're a slave to whoever controls the particular doctrine you ascribe to.

In socialism, you're a slave to the greater 'good'. In practical terms, that means you're a slave to whichever group of scum the mobocrasy elect.

In communism you're a slave to the communist party.

A slave is a slave, no matter who rules the roost.

Sacrifice was certainly a theme in Saturday's episode. Both the Dr and Rose's dad made the ultimate sacrifice to save the rest.

Now "Hand Job Wolf" is a moniker I could seriously live with presuming Paul Newman agreed to play me in the movie

I wonder if there's any mileage in a story where a crazed but well-meaning Continuity Person from the future travels back in time and fixes all the errors in Sci-Fi Time Travel stories thus endngering the very fabric of our universe?

But then again, you haven't seen my bod...and between us? Probably don't want to...but yes, it's a fair cop...there is a distinct bit of anagrammatics in the air

Any a very good peice of BBC Period Drama it was too.

Watched with friends (25 and 27 years old) and both were 'tearful'. Mad folk; it's only WHO.

Can I just take a moment to point out that communism is an ideology and it was just the implementation of the ideology that resulted in a "party" being formed therefore technically you don't have to be a slave to it, it just worked out that way in certain areas.

The critical money seems to be firmly on the fact that RTD is showing up big business, capitalism, greed etc. as bad things in this series...blimey, a family TV show with a sense of morality? It'll never catch on surely....

Is it possible that the ratings for the final few episodes might take a hit from Big Brother on Channel Four?

In previous series BB has had some sort of Saturday evening live show, so I'm wondering if their schedulers are planning something to go head-to-head with the Doctor?

Not sure about it endangering the very fabric of the universe (a quick rinse cycle with some Comfort would fix that ), but it would certainly reduce the number of posts to message boards.

Let's hope not.
I was always under the premise that people watched BB because they had nothing better to do/watch.... (Ducks for cover)....

No for swearing reasons the live shows on a Saturday were on at 9pm. They didnt do them live last year as there was so much bitchy controversial happenings they eschewed them in favour of house highlights.

A 'stitch in time' will always repair the fabric of the universe

Can I just take a moment to point out that capitalism is simply 'an economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned, and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market' (dictionary.com).

Anyone who thinks this series of Dr Who is a political manifesto that aims to show how an economic system that decentralizes production and distribution is evil, might want to take a cold shower and one or two deep breaths

Nope traditonally Big Bro ratings are at their lowest on a Saturday. As has been said above too, Big Bro is never on that early.

Anyway moving on. I've been thinking about the whole Bad Wolf thing.

What did the title 'The Long Game' actually have to do with the episode? The episode was about a creature taking over a news channel and trying to influence human history. Wouldn't something like 'Breaking News' be a better title? So far all the other titles have directly referenced the content of the episode - Dalek, Rose, Aliens Of London, Father's Day etc.

We know that a future episode of doctor who has a reality TV style game. Could this game be on bad wolf TV, could this 'long game' be created and controlled by Jagrafess - thus being the creature that the doctor long thought to be dead. Perhaps in the future people hate onscreen logos so much Bad Wolf TV has to resort to spray painting the name everywhere Also the Moxx could be an avid fan of Bad Wolf TV, as soon as he saw the doctor (who doesn't realise his adventures are being televised) he realised it was a 'bad wolf situation'

As much as we'd love to see Davros, or Rami in this series RTD isn't going to use a 'classic who' character without re introducing them properly. Remember he does treat this series as a fresh start (BBC are billing it series one, not series 27) and there are a lot of viewers who have never seen classic who. Whoever does come back from the dead is going to be someone that has been killed off in this series. That means Clive, The Dalek, Cassandra or Jagrafess.

I'm gussing the long game title referred to it as the starting point of the long game of 'Bad Wolf' started as a revenge act by Jagrafess for almost destoying his hold on the media.


Ahhh, I hear you say, but there are bad wolf references in episodes before the long game how can that be?

Father's Day proved that changes in time also effect the past (the Bell phone call) so Jagrafess could easily influnce The Doctor's past adventures. Time is like a rubber band. Twang it (or effect it) at one point and the waves travel in both directions down it...

Gotta say smeg, the "product placement" idea for bad wolf is the best theory I've heard yet and The Long Game is the only episode to feature Bad Wolf TV and not written/spoken references which would put it outside "the game" and explain why neither The Doctor or Rose showed up on the security scans because although they "weren't meant to be there" they would be known to Jagrafess's security system if they are indeed players in a reality TV game!

I don't think anyone's suggesting it's a political manifesto mega, but if the concept of Television that works on several levels is alien to you then perhaps you're awaiting the starting of BB6 with your breath particularly baited?

Do we? I thought that was one of the theories about The Long Game and The Editor, which we now know to be false.

Once we all saw that Simon Pegg's character wasn't editing a reality TV show, I thought that line of thinking had been dropped.

Perhaps I'm wrong then but I'm sure SFX magazine has mentioned it a number of times.

My breath may well smell like bait at times, but I'm certainly not waiting around for Big Brother like some giddy school girl. I can't stand the damn thing.

A pox on all 'reality' shows.

Hmmm...with the exception of the new series of Pioneer House (replicating early Eurepean settlers in North America). It made for interesting viewing last night...

BP gave an interview (on DC I think) praising RTD's approach to the series with the use of contemporary ideas and the like in a sci-fi setting and cited an episode which pointed up the dangers of the Reality TV trend if it was taken to an extreme - I'd always assumed that was going to be The Long Game because of the title but apparently not having seen it....