i take your point, and i cannot counter it because i dont have enough knowledge of it.

but for me, and i dare say others, dance would be the greatest musical movement to emerge over the last 40 years. others might argue punk, its influence on music, fashion and society cannot be underestimated.

You can't .. there's no discernible tune, which was precisely my point in the original post!


Had to Google TLC (thought you were using shorthand for another outfit) but once I'd found the track you mention on YouTube I recognised it straight away, although I certainly don't recall it contained a rap verse (perhaps that was only on the 12" version). Frankly 'Lisa's rap' adds absolutely nothing to the song. To my mind it breaks up the flow and gets in the way of what is otherwise quite a pleasant track. The most annoying thing about it though is, as with so much rap music, you can barely make out what she's saying!


My original point .. thank you! However, I really don't think rap was 'invented', I think it merely evolved as so many other genres did. Anything will sell because there are so many people who have such disparate tastes in music. Even several minutes of complete silence will sell, so it must appeal to someone!

[quote=Danny_Francis;84456047]
You missed the bit about last 40 years. I'm speaking in terms of anything we've seen since...


I'd say Punk is older than Hip Hop - on wax anyway. The origins of both are open to a huge amount of debate of course. Punk seems far more dormant to me in the 21st Century. As in: it blew up. It went away / went back underground to a great extent unlike Hip Hop. Certainly Punk has had a huge impact beyond music also but on the music scene itself it's been more m.i.a.

Dance - personally I see more as an umbrella term for a wide range of sub-genres. A kind of post-Disco, post-Electro melange with a heavy influence on technology in building the tracks being the strong connection.

You can take Van Morrison's Mystic Trail around East Belfast.
http://www.connswatergreenway.co.uk/vanmorrisontrail

Also Van does some 'rap' and call and response interludes which are not straightforward tunes or songs.

Try this master work 'Summertime in England' at 2.30' and 4.00'
http://youtu.be/AghCvXHg_x4

[quote=scrilla;84456391]
punk is far more dormant nowdays as a musical style, but the legacy through art, fashion, influence on music, writings, comedy, is still here, its alive and well.

umbrella term or not, the fact is that dance exploded onto the scene in a post disco world where people took punk attitudes of 'do it yourself' and experimented with the new sounds new technology could afford.

from my pov, these two styles are far more important then hip hop... and im not sure a definitive quantification between these styles to see which really is 'the greatest' , can be made.

I get sick and tired of hearing people say things like "lack of investigation" or "you haven't listened to enough of it" or things like that. How many rap records do you have to listen to to be qualified to say you don't like it or you think it's rubbish. I've heard enough rap records over the years which is the VERY REASON why I know I don't like it. If someone said "I hate rock music" I wouldn't say "Oh but you haven't heard enough of it to know you don't like it" or "you're listening to the wrong sort of rock music". I'd say fair enough.
Personally I think it's tuneless garbage. People can go on all day about 'Poetry' and all that but it doesn't change the fact that my ears tell me it's garbage. Maybe I shouldn't say garbage, maybe I should say it's not my cup of tea but I should be aloud to criticise it without getting a load of verbal

'A load of verbal'? You've missed the part where I wrote "a lot of people here and more widely" - that isn't meaning you specifically, it is referring to a tendency amongst detractors. The sort of tripe written in post #43 displays how some people would want to stereotype an entire genre of music.

We get it - you don't like it but I think it can be expected that people might respond to the sort of statement which seems to have been posted in all seriousness...

BBC 6 music play some good old school and new hiphop.

Yes they are.

In what way? They don't sing they talk, and there's nothing musical about it.

why can it only be considered music if it has singing in it... does rhythm have nothing to do with music?
there are lots of rappers with a melodic tone anyway and sung choruses...and what about beyonce, aguilera, mjb, mariah etc who's biggest hits are sung over Hip Hop.

... and dance "music" doesn't always have a tune, just a beat with a bass line. Sometimes not even a bass melody, just a rhythmic pulse.

I suppose because when it comes to rap, it's main tool is the mic and the skill of rap does not involve the technical complexity and range a singing voice offers. For example, live music that involves singers as vocalist for whatever genre of music can be sung in a more diverse and far reaching way. So that and like I can said, how many rappers can actually play any instruments? So in musical terms, rap is a form of music and there are as you say rappers with a melodic tone but in terms of production its rather simplistic.

rapping is also technically complex when done correctly..complex rhythms and lyrics. most vocalists in every genre cannot play a musical instrument, so i don't see the point you are making. their are instrumentalists in Hip Hop that compose music .

You need to listen to more rap music.

Oh here we go.

Really?
I think it spoils most of it.
Do you remember when Estelle released American Boy. There were two versions of it. One with Kanye West rapping and one with no rapping at all. The version with NO rapping is far superior to the rapping version because it's just a normal song with no one shouting in that annoying rap voice way.
Think of it this way. Imagine if the lyrics that Estelle sings were given to Kanye West so instead of singing to a melody which Estelle was doing those lyrics were rapped the way he was rapping at the beginning. That record wouldn't be an eighth as appealing. Yet if the very same lyrics were SUNG to the melody Estelle was singing the song suddenly becomes much more appealing. That says a lot about rap to me.

Honey G 😂

H to the O to the N to the E to the Y... respect.

Anyhoo, preffer old school rap as it has a rawness and passion that modern rap seems to lack. Maybe rap is limited, but then the same can be said of other genres like country for example. One thing I do dislike is people who only like certain types of music because they think it's "cool". I think rap suffers from that far too much.

I guess it depends on particular songs then, or perhaps even certain rappers.
I always found Lisa Lopes' raps enhanced every song she appeared on.
Again, No Scrubs was already a great song but with Lisa's rap it became a killer song.

All i will say is Vanilla Ice could rap and dance - Eminem couldn't

I'm a bad-ass rapper with a bad attitude
Stop crowding me out I need solitude
I need some space so gimme latitude
I ain't no wuss I got fortitude
You don't dig me, you got no gratitude
You're a fat-ass ho-bitch you ain't no dude.

Do I get a recording contract?

Estelle is a Hip Hop artist.

You mean it killed it?

I don't care what she is, I'm talking about a particular SONG. In that particular song she was SINGING not rapping.