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FIFA bans poppies on shirts for the England v Scotland match |
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#301 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
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Oh so you make a terrible statement about ALL Muslims, that they brainwash their children to hate the west, which is exactly what you said...
and a later clarification once that gets pointed out is acceptable is it? shameful, it really is. How you have the nerve to go on about a sentence like this after saying we went to war to stop the UK being invaded is beyond me. I'm happy to clarify things when someone is confused about what I mean. You should try it. |
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#302 |
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I regularly post in that forum, and am well respected, unlike the constant abuse i receive here.
If only the events leading to ww2 could be summed up by the simple words of "Hitler invading Poland". How naive. But anything to deflect from the actual topic again. Poppies are political symbols. they have no place in football. |
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#303 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Is that in the same way everyone apologised to you when you knew Roy Hodgson wouldn't be a success?
Lets not make this personal and ruin the forum or close this thread. |
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#304 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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I think the most interesting and valid point from this discussion is the hijacking of symbols and how as a society we have allowed it to happen.
Someone mentioned the swastika I think and that is the perfect example of it. Its history predates the political meaning by many thousands of years and is has far removed from its meaning as you can get. Do we allow one political party or a point of view to dismiss thousands of years of history? You can claim any symbol to be political if you wish to, Should that mean as a society we should allow it just because a party or a section of society thinks it means something? Should not the historic meaning and the thought process behind why it means that take precedence over a section of peoples opinions? |
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#305 |
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and the stuff you write is their mantra, and justification for every terrorist act they commit.
The UK is reaping what it sewed due to Imperialism and the foreign policy it has had. The UK is not innocent in this. Quote:
Yes, the whole of history is our fault. It must be our fault that those living today live their lives through the hatred of history, rather than getting on with life today.
Posting stuff like that really doesn't help your argument. |
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#306 |
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I think the most interesting and valid point from this discussion is the hijacking of symbols and how as a society we have allowed it to happen.
Someone mentioned the swastika I think and that is the perfect example of it. Its history predates the political meaning by many thousands of years and is has far removed from its meaning as you can get. Do we allow one political party or a point of view to dismiss thousands of years of history? You can claim any symbol to be political if you wish to, Should that mean as a society we should allow it just because a party or a section of society thinks it means something? Should not the historic meaning and the thought process behind why it means that take precedence over a section of peoples opinions? However we do have current soldiers on the pitch laying wreathes in rememberance of thoise who died in illegal oil and political wars (and legal ones). Unfotrtunitely, just like the swastika is forever associated with the Nazi party, the poppy is not forever associated (rightly or wrongly) with Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya to name but a few. It also has connections to the British Legion, which is most unfortunite too. (Its not just a symbol, its money making product.) It is because of this, it has no place in football. |
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#307 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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No one is taking a swastika into a football ground claiming its some sort of pre-historical symbol.
However we do have current soldiers on the pitch laying wreathes in rememberance of thoise who died in illegal oil and political wars (and legal ones). Unfotrtunitely, just like the swastika is forever associated with the Nazi party, the poppy is not forever associated (rightly or wrongly) with Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya to name but a few. It also has connections to the British Legion, which is most unfortunite too. (Its not just a symbol, its money making product.) It is because of this, it has no place in football. do you have any idea how much The British Legion does to support ex-servicemen and their families ? you should be embarassed making comments like that tbh |
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#308 |
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What I write is fact.
The UK is reaping what it sewed due to Imperialism and the foreign policy it has had. The UK is not innocent in this. . We are part of coalitions in the world, and take part in military actions with others. |
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#309 |
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No one is taking a swastika into a football ground claiming its some sort of pre-historical symbol.
However we do have current soldiers on the pitch laying wreathes in rememberance of thoise who died in illegal oil and political wars (and legal ones). Unfotrtunitely, just like the swastika is forever associated with the Nazi party, the poppy is not forever associated (rightly or wrongly) with Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya to name but a few. It also has connections to the British Legion, which is most unfortunite too. (Its not just a symbol, its money making product.) It is because of this, it has no place in football. Because people wrongly associate symbols with things should we allow people who are wrong to dictate what a symbol means? Instead of allowing people to change things to suit their own agenda or beliefs surely it is better to dismiss those people and their views and ensure that we ensure the correct meanings are applied Most symbols are also money making products, Not sure why that should be a issue A symbol can only be wrongly associated "forever" if we as a society do not correct the people who make the mistake of doing so. With the right education just as the the symbols meaning was changed in the past we can reverse that change |
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#310 |
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care to explain why it is "most unfortunate" that it has connections the The British Legion ?
do you have any idea how much The British Legion does to support ex-servicemen and their families ? you should be embarassed making comments like that tbh Why on earth would i want to donate to, or worst still the family of, ex-servicemen who were in Iraq or Afghanistan? |
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#311 |
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There are not many ex-servicemen from WW2 around who i would happily donate to.
Why on earth would i want to donate to, or worst still the family of, ex-servicemen who were in Iraq or Afghanistan? Has anyone here asked you to? |
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#312 |
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Then don't donate
Has anyone here asked you to? I also do not want it associated with football, which is the essence of this thread. Soldiers should not be on a football pitch. Its ridiculous. |
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#313 |
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We didn't fight to stop a "political ideology", we fought to stop a country invading the UK!
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#314 |
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Yes, i've been asked dozens of times this year. You can hardly walk anywhere without being asked to buy a poppy.
I also do not want it associated with football, which is the essence of this thread. Soldiers should not be on a football pitch. Its ridiculous. I don't think that charity should not be there because i don't wish to donate. |
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#315 |
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I don't think that charity should not be there because i don't wish to donate.
What do you think would have happened if an english or scottish player did not wear a poppy? |
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#316 |
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Do you think that people should be free not to wear a poppy?
What do you think would have happened if an english or scottish player did not wear a poppy? People would throw their toys out the pram and complain alot on Social Media and the internet (Much like they did with Rooney and the England team) just as they have when they did. So really not that much. The way of the world today is someone or a section is outraged by anything, Everyone thinks their view is important nowadays and sadly for them which is something they really hate (and I find hilarious at their outrage about it) its not the case. |
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#317 |
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Same as what happens to James McClean and same as Colin Kaepernick a NFL player in the U.S.A who is not standing for the National Anthem (ohhhh national anthems at football games lets be outraged at that).
People would throw their toys out the pram and complain alot on Social Media and the internet (Much like they did with Rooney and the England team) just as they have when they did. So really not that much. The way of the world today is someone or a section is outraged by anything, Everyone thinks their view is important nowadays and sadly for them which is something they really hate (and I find hilarious at their outrage about it) its not the case. I found it most odd when Scottish fans booed their own national anthem in the last game, which must be a first! |
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#318 |
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As much as you find it hilarious when people think their view matters, i find it terrifically sad when people cannot / refuse to see or contemplate the other side of an argument.
I found it most odd when Scottish fans booed their own national anthem in the last game, which must be a first! |
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#319 |
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Same as what happens to James McClean and same as Colin Kaepernick a NFL player in the U.S.A who is not standing for the National Anthem (ohhhh national anthems at football games lets be outraged at that).
People would throw their toys out the pram and complain alot on Social Media and the internet (Much like they did with Rooney and the England team) just as they have when they did. So really not that much. The way of the world today is someone or a section is outraged by anything, Everyone thinks their view is important nowadays and sadly for them which is something they really hate (and I find hilarious at their outrage about it) its not the case. |
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#320 |
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As much as you find it hilarious when people think their view matters, i find it terrifically sad when people cannot / refuse to see or contemplate the other side of an argument.
I found it most odd when Scottish fans booed their own national anthem in the last game, which must be a first! Football's history is massively linked with the armed services no matter what peoples views are (Chelsea's and Arsenal's badges show their link with it for example). To say that just because people associate something with a symbol we should ignore history is letting the lunatics run the asylum. It has a place in football because its part of football, Cherry picking part of what made something what it is because of people's likes and dislikes is for me something we should not allow |
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#321 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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The very fact that James McClean refuses to wear the poppy every year and is then atacked on social media and by the right wing press does suggest the poppy has been hijacked and politicised. If the poppy was genuinely intended as a simple act of remembrance, then everyone would be saying they fully respect his stance. Somewhere in the last ten years or so, it has been hijacked and come to represent a form of British nationalism or jingoism (and support for the armed forces apparently).
For most people though, the poppy is still what it always was, and what it actually stands for. A bunch of idiots on social media, and the like, cant change that. |
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#322 |
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Yes, i've been asked dozens of times this year. You can hardly walk anywhere without being asked to buy a poppy.
I also do not want it associated with football, which is the essence of this thread. Soldiers should not be on a football pitch. Its ridiculous. Football has chosen to support the appeals, it is not your choice. |
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#323 |
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The very fact that James McClean refuses to wear the poppy every year and is then atacked on social media and by the right wing press does suggest the poppy has been hijacked and politicised. If the poppy was genuinely intended as a simple act of remembrance, then everyone would be saying they fully respect his stance. Somewhere in the last ten years or so, it has been hijacked and come to represent a form of British nationalism or jingoism (and support for the armed forces apparently).
But the question is should we allow that hijacking? Or should we do something about it? If a hijacking has taken place (and I think it has) then surely its society job to do something about it and not just sit back and say "oh well its associated forever with XYZ now" People get attacked for wearing it and people get attacked for not. Both are equally as bad |
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#324 |
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Liverpool fans have been booing the national anthem for years
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#325 |
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It has been hijacked and I have said that a few times.
But the question is should we allow that hijacking? Or should we do something about it? If a hijacking has taken place (and I think it has) then surely its society job to do something about it and not just sit back and say "oh well its associated forever with XYZ now" People get attacked for wearing it and people get attacked for not. Both are equally as bad James McClean and a few others are actually doing everyone a big favour by refusing to wear it, as they're highlighting the intolerance and jingoism which now surrounds the poppy. |
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