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FIFA bans poppies on shirts for the England v Scotland match


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Old 24-11-2016, 15:49
Deep Purple
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Oh so you make a terrible statement about ALL Muslims, that they brainwash their children to hate the west, which is exactly what you said...

and a later clarification once that gets pointed out is acceptable is it?

shameful, it really is.
Ha ha. I clarified it for you, as I'd already earlier made it clear when it came up.

How you have the nerve to go on about a sentence like this after saying we went to war to stop the UK being invaded is beyond me.

I'm happy to clarify things when someone is confused about what I mean. You should try it.
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Old 24-11-2016, 15:51
Deep Purple
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I regularly post in that forum, and am well respected, unlike the constant abuse i receive here.

If only the events leading to ww2 could be summed up by the simple words of "Hitler invading Poland". How naive.

But anything to deflect from the actual topic again.

Poppies are political symbols. they have no place in football.
Is that in the same way everyone apologised to you when you knew Roy Hodgson wouldn't be a success?
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Old 24-11-2016, 15:55
codeblue
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Is that in the same way everyone apologised to you when you knew Roy Hodgson wouldn't be a success?
yes.

Lets not make this personal and ruin the forum or close this thread.
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Old 24-11-2016, 16:03
The_don1
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I think the most interesting and valid point from this discussion is the hijacking of symbols and how as a society we have allowed it to happen.

Someone mentioned the swastika I think and that is the perfect example of it. Its history predates the political meaning by many thousands of years and is has far removed from its meaning as you can get. Do we allow one political party or a point of view to dismiss thousands of years of history?

You can claim any symbol to be political if you wish to, Should that mean as a society we should allow it just because a party or a section of society thinks it means something? Should not the historic meaning and the thought process behind why it means that take precedence over a section of peoples opinions?
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Old 24-11-2016, 23:01
timboy
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and the stuff you write is their mantra, and justification for every terrorist act they commit.
What I write is fact.

The UK is reaping what it sewed due to Imperialism and the foreign policy it has had. The UK is not innocent in this.

Yes, the whole of history is our fault. It must be our fault that those living today live their lives through the hatred of history, rather than getting on with life today.
Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Posting stuff like that really doesn't help your argument.
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:35
codeblue
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I think the most interesting and valid point from this discussion is the hijacking of symbols and how as a society we have allowed it to happen.

Someone mentioned the swastika I think and that is the perfect example of it. Its history predates the political meaning by many thousands of years and is has far removed from its meaning as you can get. Do we allow one political party or a point of view to dismiss thousands of years of history?

You can claim any symbol to be political if you wish to, Should that mean as a society we should allow it just because a party or a section of society thinks it means something? Should not the historic meaning and the thought process behind why it means that take precedence over a section of peoples opinions?
No one is taking a swastika into a football ground claiming its some sort of pre-historical symbol.

However we do have current soldiers on the pitch laying wreathes in rememberance of thoise who died in illegal oil and political wars (and legal ones).

Unfotrtunitely, just like the swastika is forever associated with the Nazi party, the poppy is not forever associated (rightly or wrongly) with Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya to name but a few. It also has connections to the British Legion, which is most unfortunite too. (Its not just a symbol, its money making product.)

It is because of this, it has no place in football.
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:43
mimik1uk
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No one is taking a swastika into a football ground claiming its some sort of pre-historical symbol.

However we do have current soldiers on the pitch laying wreathes in rememberance of thoise who died in illegal oil and political wars (and legal ones).

Unfotrtunitely, just like the swastika is forever associated with the Nazi party, the poppy is not forever associated (rightly or wrongly) with Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya to name but a few. It also has connections to the British Legion, which is most unfortunite too. (Its not just a symbol, its money making product.)

It is because of this, it has no place in football.
care to explain why it is "most unfortunate" that it has connections the The British Legion ?

do you have any idea how much The British Legion does to support ex-servicemen and their families ?

you should be embarassed making comments like that tbh
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:08
Deep Purple
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What I write is fact.

The UK is reaping what it sewed due to Imperialism and the foreign policy it has had. The UK is not innocent in this.


.
The days of imperialism are long gone, and there you go again, living by history in order to justify your hatred.

We are part of coalitions in the world, and take part in military actions with others.
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:48
The_don1
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No one is taking a swastika into a football ground claiming its some sort of pre-historical symbol.

However we do have current soldiers on the pitch laying wreathes in rememberance of thoise who died in illegal oil and political wars (and legal ones).

Unfotrtunitely, just like the swastika is forever associated with the Nazi party, the poppy is not forever associated (rightly or wrongly) with Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya to name but a few. It also has connections to the British Legion, which is most unfortunite too. (Its not just a symbol, its money making product.)

It is because of this, it has no place in football.
The swastika is a historical symbol just because a group of people claim it means something else is not relevant, Its actual factual meaning should be the most important factor. Do we allow people who are wrong to be continually wrong or do we try to educate those people?

Because people wrongly associate symbols with things should we allow people who are wrong to dictate what a symbol means? Instead of allowing people to change things to suit their own agenda or beliefs surely it is better to dismiss those people and their views and ensure that we ensure the correct meanings are applied

Most symbols are also money making products, Not sure why that should be a issue

A symbol can only be wrongly associated "forever" if we as a society do not correct the people who make the mistake of doing so. With the right education just as the the symbols meaning was changed in the past we can reverse that change
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:45
codeblue
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care to explain why it is "most unfortunate" that it has connections the The British Legion ?

do you have any idea how much The British Legion does to support ex-servicemen and their families ?

you should be embarassed making comments like that tbh
There are not many ex-servicemen from WW2 around who i would happily donate to.

Why on earth would i want to donate to, or worst still the family of, ex-servicemen who were in Iraq or Afghanistan?
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:49
The_don1
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There are not many ex-servicemen from WW2 around who i would happily donate to.

Why on earth would i want to donate to, or worst still the family of, ex-servicemen who were in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Then don't donate

Has anyone here asked you to?
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:23
codeblue
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Then don't donate

Has anyone here asked you to?
Yes, i've been asked dozens of times this year. You can hardly walk anywhere without being asked to buy a poppy.

I also do not want it associated with football, which is the essence of this thread.

Soldiers should not be on a football pitch. Its ridiculous.
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:24
ShaunIOW
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We didn't fight to stop a "political ideology", we fought to stop a country invading the UK!
No we didn't, we actually declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland who were our allies, we weren't actually under a threat of invasion at the time, and Hitler wanted peace with the UK and offered to leave the Commonwealth alone if he could have Europe.
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:28
The_don1
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Yes, i've been asked dozens of times this year. You can hardly walk anywhere without being asked to buy a poppy.

I also do not want it associated with football, which is the essence of this thread.

Soldiers should not be on a football pitch. Its ridiculous.
I have been asked to donate to many charities in many places but if I don't wish to I don't.

I don't think that charity should not be there because i don't wish to donate.
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:30
codeblue
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I don't think that charity should not be there because i don't wish to donate.
Do you think that people should be free not to wear a poppy?

What do you think would have happened if an english or scottish player did not wear a poppy?
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:41
The_don1
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Do you think that people should be free not to wear a poppy?

What do you think would have happened if an english or scottish player did not wear a poppy?
Same as what happens to James McClean and same as Colin Kaepernick a NFL player in the U.S.A who is not standing for the National Anthem (ohhhh national anthems at football games lets be outraged at that).

People would throw their toys out the pram and complain alot on Social Media and the internet (Much like they did with Rooney and the England team) just as they have when they did. So really not that much.

The way of the world today is someone or a section is outraged by anything, Everyone thinks their view is important nowadays and sadly for them which is something they really hate (and I find hilarious at their outrage about it) its not the case.
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:49
codeblue
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Same as what happens to James McClean and same as Colin Kaepernick a NFL player in the U.S.A who is not standing for the National Anthem (ohhhh national anthems at football games lets be outraged at that).

People would throw their toys out the pram and complain alot on Social Media and the internet (Much like they did with Rooney and the England team) just as they have when they did. So really not that much.

The way of the world today is someone or a section is outraged by anything, Everyone thinks their view is important nowadays and sadly for them which is something they really hate (and I find hilarious at their outrage about it) its not the case.
As much as you find it hilarious when people think their view matters, i find it terrifically sad when people cannot / refuse to see or contemplate the other side of an argument.

I found it most odd when Scottish fans booed their own national anthem in the last game, which must be a first!
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:52
The_don1
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As much as you find it hilarious when people think their view matters, i find it terrifically sad when people cannot / refuse to see or contemplate the other side of an argument.

I found it most odd when Scottish fans booed their own national anthem in the last game, which must be a first!
Liverpool fans have been booing the national anthem for years
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:57
Eurostar
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Same as what happens to James McClean and same as Colin Kaepernick a NFL player in the U.S.A who is not standing for the National Anthem (ohhhh national anthems at football games lets be outraged at that).

People would throw their toys out the pram and complain alot on Social Media and the internet (Much like they did with Rooney and the England team) just as they have when they did. So really not that much.

The way of the world today is someone or a section is outraged by anything, Everyone thinks their view is important nowadays and sadly for them which is something they really hate (and I find hilarious at their outrage about it) its not the case.
The very fact that James McClean refuses to wear the poppy every year and is then atacked on social media and by the right wing press does suggest the poppy has been hijacked and politicised. If the poppy was genuinely intended as a simple act of remembrance, then everyone would be saying they fully respect his stance. Somewhere in the last ten years or so, it has been hijacked and come to represent a form of British nationalism or jingoism (and support for the armed forces apparently).
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:00
The_don1
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As much as you find it hilarious when people think their view matters, i find it terrifically sad when people cannot / refuse to see or contemplate the other side of an argument.

I found it most odd when Scottish fans booed their own national anthem in the last game, which must be a first!
The problem is that the other said in this topic makes very little real sense.

Football's history is massively linked with the armed services no matter what peoples views are (Chelsea's and Arsenal's badges show their link with it for example). To say that just because people associate something with a symbol we should ignore history is letting the lunatics run the asylum.

It has a place in football because its part of football, Cherry picking part of what made something what it is because of people's likes and dislikes is for me something we should not allow
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:02
Deep Purple
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The very fact that James McClean refuses to wear the poppy every year and is then atacked on social media and by the right wing press does suggest the poppy has been hijacked and politicised. If the poppy was genuinely intended as a simple act of remembrance, then everyone would be saying they fully respect his stance. Somewhere in the last ten years or so, it has been hijacked and come to represent a form of British nationalism or jingoism (and support for the armed forces apparently).
It is still what it is. The rise of social media, and the permanently outraged, with the ability to instantly complain, then forget, has allowed ridiculous things to happen, as they do with everything.

For most people though, the poppy is still what it always was, and what it actually stands for.

A bunch of idiots on social media, and the like, cant change that.
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:03
Deep Purple
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Yes, i've been asked dozens of times this year. You can hardly walk anywhere without being asked to buy a poppy.

I also do not want it associated with football, which is the essence of this thread.

Soldiers should not be on a football pitch. Its ridiculous.
Every charity bombards people with requests for money. Dont donate if you dont want to.

Football has chosen to support the appeals, it is not your choice.
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:04
The_don1
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The very fact that James McClean refuses to wear the poppy every year and is then atacked on social media and by the right wing press does suggest the poppy has been hijacked and politicised. If the poppy was genuinely intended as a simple act of remembrance, then everyone would be saying they fully respect his stance. Somewhere in the last ten years or so, it has been hijacked and come to represent a form of British nationalism or jingoism (and support for the armed forces apparently).
It has been hijacked and I have said that a few times.

But the question is should we allow that hijacking? Or should we do something about it?

If a hijacking has taken place (and I think it has) then surely its society job to do something about it and not just sit back and say "oh well its associated forever with XYZ now"

People get attacked for wearing it and people get attacked for not. Both are equally as bad
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:05
Nova21
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Liverpool fans have been booing the national anthem for years
Yep, thats pretty unjustified and it is a recent thing.
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:43
Eurostar
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It has been hijacked and I have said that a few times.

But the question is should we allow that hijacking? Or should we do something about it?

If a hijacking has taken place (and I think it has) then surely its society job to do something about it and not just sit back and say "oh well its associated forever with XYZ now"

People get attacked for wearing it and people get attacked for not. Both are equally as bad
Well, arguably FIFA are certainly doing something about it. They are telling the FA that they regard the poppy as a political symbol and that it should not feature on players' shirts, nor should it be publicly displayed inside a stadium (on the big screens) before a FIFA sanctioned match.

James McClean and a few others are actually doing everyone a big favour by refusing to wear it, as they're highlighting the intolerance and jingoism which now surrounds the poppy.
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