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FIFA bans poppies on shirts for the England v Scotland match


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Old 25-11-2016, 14:51
codeblue
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It is still what it is. The rise of social media, and the permanently outraged, with the ability to instantly complain, then forget, has allowed ridiculous things to happen, as they do with everything.

For most people though, the poppy is still what it always was, and what it actually stands for.

A bunch of idiots on social media, and the like, cant change that.
I'm sorry, but i cannot see your argument when its hidden behind such narrative. It does you a disservice.

What the internet allows is for people to voice their opinion. You cannot just shout them down, dismiss them simply because its not the same as your own, or that they are all "idiots" or "permanently outraged".
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:56
The_don1
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Well, arguably FIFA are certainly doing something about it. They are telling the FA that they regard the poppy as a political symbol and that it should not feature on players' shirts, nor should it be publicly displayed inside a stadium (on the big screens) before a FIFA sanctioned match.

James McClean and a few others are actually doing everyone a big favour by refusing to wear it, as they're highlighting the intolerance and jingoism which now surrounds the poppy.
But should FIFA really be the organisation we take notice of when it comes to this sort of thing? Ignoring how they have awarded major events to places with horrific human rights records and their lack of any real willingness to tackle anything of any real importance should an organization that has been shown to be corrupt on just about on every level time and time again on just about every single level someone who's views of what a symbol stands for or not? Is this not just being used by FIFA to flex their muscles. Should they really be the setter of standards etc? Do they have any history of being a sensible and correct authority on this sort of thing?

People moan about FIFA when they do this or do that yet now they are the ones we should take notice of. Once again its no more then we have seen with BREXIT and Trump outcomes its "not fit for purpose" one minute and next its "well FIFA say this is wrong"


Or again are we just settling just because "they have always been the highest authority and its the easy option?
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:38
codeblue
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But should FIFA really be the organisation we take notice of when it comes to this sort of thing? Ignoring how they have awarded major events to places with horrific human rights records and their lack of any real willingness to tackle anything of any real importance should an organization that has been shown to be corrupt on just about on every level time and time again on just about every single level someone who's views of what a symbol stands for or not? Is this not just being used by FIFA to flex their muscles. Should they really be the setter of standards etc? Do they have any history of being a sensible and correct authority on this sort of thing?

People moan about FIFA when they do this or do that yet now they are the ones we should take notice of. Once again its no more then we have seen with BREXIT and Trump outcomes its "not fit for purpose" one minute and next its "well FIFA say this is wrong"


Or again are we just settling just because "they have always been the highest authority and its the easy option?
Fifa being corrupt, or Fifa ridiculously declaring racism is no longer a problem to circumvent the trouble Russia would have hosting the world cup should have no influence on their other rules.

Its a bit like saying the law is an ass on a few things, so I'm not going to listen or conform to any of majority of them.

Fifa regard a poppy as political. I regard the poppy as political. To stop other countries and fans having a free for all, they have simply banned everything. Heavy handed yes, but understandable.
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:51
Deep Purple
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I'm sorry, but i cannot see your argument when its hidden behind such narrative. It does you a disservice.

What the internet allows is for people to voice their opinion. You cannot just shout them down, dismiss them simply because its not the same as your own, or that they are all "idiots" or "permanently outraged".
You can, because it happens about everything.

On this case, it is easy to establish what the poppy is for, but on and on we go with people wanting to decide it is something else.

Next week it will be something else, last week it was Wayne Rooney.
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Old 25-11-2016, 16:22
RichmondBlue
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Well, arguably FIFA are certainly doing something about it. They are telling the FA that they regard the poppy as a political symbol and that it should not feature on players' shirts, nor should it be publicly displayed inside a stadium (on the big screens) before a FIFA sanctioned match.

James McClean and a few others are actually doing everyone a big favour by refusing to wear it, as they're highlighting the intolerance and jingoism which now surrounds the poppy.
But at the same time FIFA sanctions the holding of a World Cup in a country with an appalling record on human rights. The very stadia that the games will be played in are being built with slave labour. Temporary immigrants who live in dreadful conditions, many of whom are paying with their lives to allow FIFA to stage their showcase event in a nation that has no historic interest in the game.
It's the incredible double standards that get me. An organisation steeped in politics, involving bribery and corruption on an epic scale, and they are lecturing the world about political symbols in football ? When (or if) they clear up their act, and all those responsible for the dirty dealings of the past are slopping out their cells somewhere, I might start taking them seriously.
We should have put together a "coalition of the willing" many years ago and stood up to Blatter and his cabal of crooks. Too much money involved and too many business interests, we just didn't have the balls.
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Old 25-11-2016, 16:28
Beanybun
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I'm sorry, but i cannot see your argument when its hidden behind such narrative. It does you a disservice.

What the internet allows is for people to voice their opinion. You cannot just shout them down, dismiss them simply because its not the same as your own, or that they are all "idiots" or "permanently outraged".
Slightly off topic and no offense meant to any particular poster here, but that is the entire and increasingly serious problem with the internet.

It gives cretins with small to vanishing IQ's a voice and creates the illusion that each and every "feeling" or "sense" is equal to facts; even if those are CT, offensive, racist or just plain stupid.

It encourages UKIP, Trump and pointless arguments over the meaning of a poppy (when its meaning is as plain and obvious as the nose on your face).

We're now at a stage where the desirability of parliamentary democracy (in the home of parliamentary democracy!) is openly questioned, by a bunch of twonks who are clueless as to what the phrase even means.
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Old 25-11-2016, 16:33
RichmondBlue
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Slightly off topic and no offense meant to any particular poster here, but that is the entire and increasingly serious problem with the internet.

It gives cretins with small to vanishing IQ's a voice and creates the illusion that each and every "feeling" or "sense" is equal to facts; even if those are CT, offensive, racist or just plain stupid.

It encourages UKIP, Trump and pointless arguments over the meaning of a poppy (when its meaning is as plain and obvious as the nose on your face).

We're now at a stage where the desirability of parliamentary democracy (in the home of parliamentary democracy!) is openly questioned, by a bunch of twonks who are clueless as to what the phrase even means.
But we're all posting on DS. I agree with you, but can't help feeling like someone in a glass house throwing stones if I mention it.
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Old 25-11-2016, 16:37
crofter
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As much as you find it hilarious when people think their view matters, i find it terrifically sad when people cannot / refuse to see or contemplate the other side of an argument.

I found it most odd when Scottish fans booed their own national anthem in the last game, which must be a first!
Well it would be a first as Scotland don't have a national anthem ...
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Old 25-11-2016, 16:40
EStaffs90
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Well, arguably FIFA are certainly doing something about it. They are telling the FA that they regard the poppy as a political symbol and that it should not feature on players' shirts, nor should it be publicly displayed inside a stadium (on the big screens) before a FIFA sanctioned match.
They are also telling the Welsh FA that they shouldn't have let fans in wearing poppies.
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Old 25-11-2016, 16:41
The_don1
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But we're all posting on DS. I agree with you, but can't help feeling like someone in a glass house throwing stones if I mention it.
But like most things is not part of it how you use such tools?

Tools like Social Media and indeed websites like this can be very useful but then people start to misuse them (Social Media is a excellent example of this) or taking it to another level.

I think these things often start to fail when you open them up to a larger amount of people.
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Old 25-11-2016, 17:10
Beanybun
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But we're all posting on DS. I agree with you, but can't help feeling like someone in a glass house throwing stones if I mention it.
Heh, that's how I was sucked in to DS in the first place; the need to respond to people posting complete garbage. And so the cycle continues...
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Old 25-11-2016, 17:44
RichmondBlue
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But like most things is not part of it how you use such tools?

Tools like Social Media and indeed websites like this can be very useful but then people start to misuse them (Social Media is a excellent example of this) or taking it to another level.

I think these things often start to fail when you open them up to a larger amount of people.
I don't mind it really. But the sheer amount of garbage that is out there is breathtaking, and to think, as far as I know it'll be around for ever in some form or another !
I do sometimes wonder about the time I spend here, replying to posts that maybe two or three have read, with a reply of my own which maybe two or three people will read. But it keeps me off the streets and out of trouble.
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Old 25-11-2016, 17:53
RichmondBlue
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Heh, that's how I was sucked in to DS in the first place; the need to respond to people posting complete garbage. And so the cycle continues...
Yes, it's remarkable how easy it is to be drawn into something online that you'd never think twice about out in the real world. A little news story that would hardly be worth mentioning in the pub can get you posting for days.
It must be good for the brain though, keeps it active. At least that's what I keep telling myself.
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Old 25-11-2016, 19:50
timboy
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The days of imperialism are long gone, and there you go again, living by history in order to justify your hatred.
Hatred?

Can you back that up?

Same as what happens to James McClean and same as Colin Kaepernick a NFL player in the U.S.A who is not standing for the National Anthem (ohhhh national anthems at football games lets be outraged at that).

People would throw their toys out the pram and complain alot on Social Media and the internet (Much like they did with Rooney and the England team) just as they have when they did. So really not that much.
James McClean and those who have refused to stand for the US anthem have been on the receiving end of death threats. Hardly "really not that much".
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Old 25-11-2016, 22:04
The_don1
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Hatred?

Can you back that up?



James McClean and those who have refused to stand for the US anthem have been on the receiving end of death threats. Hardly "really not that much".
Normally would agree but again it's today's world often reality tv stars get death threats
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Old 25-11-2016, 22:54
mimik1uk
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There are not many ex-servicemen from WW2 around who i would happily donate to.

Why on earth would i want to donate to, or worst still the family of, ex-servicemen who were in Iraq or Afghanistan?
because they are still servicemen, they still made a commitment to their country and they dont choose to go to iraq or afghanistan
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Old 26-11-2016, 09:50
timboy
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because they are still servicemen, they still made a commitment to their country
And the country pays them.
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Old 26-11-2016, 10:04
mimik1uk
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And the country pays them.
and ?

doesn't mean that they and their families dont need additional support, and thats what they get from The British Legion

why do you have a problem with a charity helping people ?
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Old 26-11-2016, 10:16
Deep Purple
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And the country pays them.
That's what happens when you get a job. You're paid wages.

Most of those helped through charities are no longer getting paid for that job.
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Old 26-11-2016, 10:52
grimtales1
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What happened when investigated the ceremony that took place before the Scotland game?
Didnt they say that FANS wouldnt be allowed to wear poppies too? Thats taking it too far, imo.
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Old 26-11-2016, 13:32
Eurostar
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But at the same time FIFA sanctions the holding of a World Cup in a country with an appalling record on human rights. The very stadia that the games will be played in are being built with slave labour. Temporary immigrants who live in dreadful conditions, many of whom are paying with their lives to allow FIFA to stage their showcase event in a nation that has no historic interest in the game.
It's the incredible double standards that get me. An organisation steeped in politics, involving bribery and corruption on an epic scale, and they are lecturing the world about political symbols in football ? When (or if) they clear up their act, and all those responsible for the dirty dealings of the past are slopping out their cells somewhere, I might start taking them seriously.
We should have put together a "coalition of the willing" many years ago and stood up to Blatter and his cabal of crooks. Too much money involved and too many business interests, we just didn't have the balls.
If they allow the poppy though, then they'd have to allow all other countries to wear emblems on their shirts. Can you imagine Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia being allowed wear emblems to commemorate the dead of the Balkan wars in the 1990s? It would probably be seen as hugely provocative in the region.

How about the German team being allowed to wear an emblem for their war dead in WW1 and WW2 ie. "victims" of Britain and its allies and holding a military ceremony involving the German army on the pitch before a World Cup qualifier......I imagine the Daily Express would go into meltdown.
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Old 26-11-2016, 13:55
Deep Purple
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If they allow the poppy though, then they'd have to allow all other countries to wear emblems on their shirts. Can you imagine Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia being allowed wear emblems to commemorate the dead of the Balkan wars in the 1990s? It would probably be seen as hugely provocative in the region.

How about the German team being allowed to wear an emblem for their war dead in WW1 and WW2 ie. "victims" of Britain and its allies and holding a military ceremony involving the German army on the pitch before a World Cup qualifier......I imagine the Daily Express would go into meltdown.
What are the established emblems for those countries that would be comparable to the poppy?
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Old 26-11-2016, 14:47
codeblue
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What are the established emblems for those countries that would be comparable to the poppy?
It's more than a poppy, it's minutes silences, wreathes on the centre circle and soldiers on the pitch.

And if course, if players refuse they get death threats
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Old 26-11-2016, 15:02
RichmondBlue
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If they allow the poppy though, then they'd have to allow all other countries to wear emblems on their shirts. Can you imagine Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia being allowed wear emblems to commemorate the dead of the Balkan wars in the 1990s? It would probably be seen as hugely provocative in the region.

How about the German team being allowed to wear an emblem for their war dead in WW1 and WW2 ie. "victims" of Britain and its allies and holding a military ceremony involving the German army on the pitch before a World Cup qualifier......I imagine the Daily Express would go into meltdown.
I wouldn't be opposed to changing it for a more international symbol if that's the only problem. I think we could stand shoulder to shoulder with the Germans to remember our war dead. The ordinary German soldier wasn't a Nazi, they were just doing their duty and following the lies of politicians. Which is the same argument I would use to remember the fallen British soldiers of recent wars, including the Iraq debacle.

The poppy is not a symbol that glorifies war or celebrates victory. It's a sad symbol that represents the tragic waste of human life in all wars, by all nations. If anything, it should make people stop for a few minutes and remember the costs involved in blindly following our leaders. That old saying..ours is not to reason why etc couldn't be more wrong. Stopping to reason why is exactly what we should all be doing.
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Old 26-11-2016, 15:05
Eurostar
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What are the established emblems for those countries that would be comparable to the poppy?
Most don't use any at all. France and Belgium do have an Armistice Day which is a national holiday but use their national flag as the symbol instead and a few other countries just have a simple memorial day.
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