DS Forums

 
 

FIFA bans poppies on shirts for the England v Scotland match


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19-12-2016, 14:30
Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 5,251
I would rather have had the money going to the British Legion etc instead of going to FIFA's bulging coffers. Paltry sums to the respective associations but a great deal to the charities if they had received it. Gestures are all very well but hard cash is better.
Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 19-12-2016, 14:50
Eurostar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,587
They have claimed England have been fined more for being at home, but they have also included punishment for spectators wearing poppies.

I hope no one tries to defend that action.
The problem of course is how the poppy is interpreted. If it was purely meant to be a 'remembrance flower' for the dead of WW1 and WW2, it would be less contentious (but still would be forbidden from being worn on an international football shirt, as no emblems of any description are allowed, no matter what they signify).

These days though, it would appear the poppy is also meant as some sort of show of support for the British armed forces alongside the remembrance aspect, but this would immediately take it into the political sphere, which would be a big 'no no' for FIFA and UEFA.
Eurostar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 14:58
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,262
The problem of course is how the poppy is interpreted. If it was purely meant to be a 'remembrance flower' for the dead of WW1 and WW2, it would be less contentious (but still would be forbidden from being worn on an international football shirt, as no emblems of any description are allowed, no matter what they signify).

These days though, it would appear the poppy is also meant as some sort of show of support for the British armed forces alongside the remembrance aspect, but this would immediately take it into the political sphere, which would be a big 'no no' for FIFA and UEFA.
The body that are behind it give a definition of what it is, and that is clear enough. It isn't political.
Deep Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 15:03
Eurostar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,587
The body that are behind it give a definition of what it is, and that is clear enough. It isn't political.
Well, arguably even a remembrance flower for the dead of WW1 and WW2 has a political element, as wars by their very nature are political events. I'm not entirely surprised that the poppy has fallen foul of FIFA regulations. They don't allow any sort of emblems on their shirts, the only thing that is permissible is the crest of the football association.
Eurostar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 15:47
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
The body that are behind it give a definition of what it is, and that is clear enough. It isn't political.
Again, you are not the arbiter of this, and actually neither are the legion. It's a bit like christians saying a cross is not religious.

Does money from poppies go to families of soldiers who were in an illegal war?

Yes. That's why I look upon the symbol in political and tainted way, and why I will never ever contribute.

If it were in rremembering the ww2 and ww1 soldiers, I'm all for that. Just not on the football pitch as per the FIFA rule.

It would set a precedent that would become very ugly and antagonistic indeed.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 17:05
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,262
Again, you are not the arbiter of this, and actually neither are the legion. It's a bit like christians saying a cross is not religious.

Does money from poppies go to families of soldiers who were in an illegal war?

Yes. That's why I look upon the symbol in political and tainted way, and why I will never ever contribute.

If it were in rremembering the ww2 and ww1 soldiers, I'm all for that. Just not on the football pitch as per the FIFA rule.

It would set a precedent that would become very ugly and antagonistic indeed.
I may not be the arbiter, but you certainly are not by giving it a definition that isn't there.

The Legion run the charity, and they give a definition of what it is. Have christians said the cross is not religious? That's another one of your ridiculous comparisons that dont exist, like your earlier one about the swastika.

Fifa are a despicable organisation, and seem to be the only ruling body that have an issue with it. All other sports allow it, without a problem. Why is that?

Your fanatical personal opinions, and dislike of England are up to you, but you cant transfer those beliefs in a way that doesn't exist.

Anyone with an inkling of knowledge of Fifa can see what they're up to in relation to their ongoing problems with England.
Deep Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 17:25
iamsofired
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: cardiff
Posts: 12,557
Whoop whoop, thats the sound of da (poppy) police.
iamsofired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 17:42
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
I

Anyone with an inkling of knowledge of Fifa can see what they're up to in relation to their ongoing problems with England.
Are you suggesting it's a conspiracy? It's tinfoil helmet time.

The poppy is a symbol of the war dead. Not just ww1 and ww2, but in illegal wars that the British are involved in. Do you understand that?

Fifa have a simple rule, no political symbols, it's football. Why do you not get that?

You may be happy to see a football shirt used for propaganda for soldiers and war, but I certain,y am not.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 18:11
gemma-the-husky
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 17,848
How on earth is the poppy worth a bigger fine than the Irish emblem
gemma-the-husky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 18:14
Cornish_Piskie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Penzance, Kernow
Posts: 1,932
The ticker at the bottom of the screen on Sky News is saying that England have been fined by FIFA for their act of defiance of FIFA rules.

The FA will just laugh that off and pay it out of petty cash. A fine, FIFA..? Sure. How would you like it? In cash or small gold bars...? (the Swiss don't do cheques any more).

As much as we wish it wasn't, the poppy IS a political symbol. We'd all love it to be merely a badge of respect, but it's gone way beyond that now. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan stripped away the last vestiges of innocence that might have been attached to it. The Wootten Basset funeral parades organised by the Royal British Legion (with the government pulling the strings) were pure political propaganda, organised at a time when public opinion was on the brink of forcing a withdrawal from Afghanistan.

FIFA as an organisation are trying to regain their dignity and place of propriety as global administrators for the game. That will be a tall order, given the level of, frankly, organised crime that the previous regime was engaged in. They have to impose current FIFA rules from the get-go. Failure to do so make them look weak and ineffective, and will also set precedents for others to follow. Any hope of the "new broom sweeping clean" will be compromised before they start.

So: The FA have been "punished".... but only a little. They'll pay up and try to keep a straight face while trying to find a way to wheel and deal some sort of back-stairs "arrangement" for next year...... which is entirely in keeping with how deals were done with the old corrupt regime. Clearly, New FIFA shouldn't allow that to happen. But will they..?

Of course, English fans (and the tabloid press) will consider our case to be an exception to every rule. We invented the game, didn't we..? Football OWES us special treatment, dontcha know..?? Bloody foreigners.

How this will all pan out in the long term is anybody's guess.
Cornish_Piskie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 18:20
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,262
Whether the war is approved of or not by some sour people, the dead remain dead, and the charity is about them, not politics.

Fifas fine is trivial, because they know it isn't worth the bother of appealing. All other sports allow it. Why is Fifa different?
Deep Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 18:22
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,262
Are you suggesting it's a conspiracy? It's tinfoil helmet time.

The poppy is a symbol of the war dead. Not just ww1 and ww2, but in illegal wars that the British are involved in. Do you understand that?

Fifa have a simple rule, no political symbols, it's football. Why do you not get that?

You may be happy to see a football shirt used for propaganda for soldiers and war, but I certain,y am not.
I understand that it isn't a symbol of war. That's because there is a definition of what it is, which takes precedence over the one you've made up.

You're not happy about anything, so that's not really an issue.
Deep Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 18:36
Cornish_Piskie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Penzance, Kernow
Posts: 1,932
Whether the war is approved of or not by some sour people, the dead remain dead, and the charity is about them, not politics.

Fifas fine is trivial, because they know it isn't worth the bother of appealing. All other sports allow it. Why is Fifa different?
It doesn't matter if WE "approved" of the war or not. You miss the point.

The application of this particular rule, in this particular case, is ALL about how it will impact on the game in a wider sense.

Allow England to do it and you have to allow EVERYBODY to do it. And whether or not our symbol really is about respect won't matter a damn in other countries. They won't have any qualms whatsoever about being blatantly political. Not necessarily with words, but with, say logos or other emblems to which a meaning can be attached that can be claimed to be respectful and honourable by those who wear them, but is highly provocative in other places.

For example: Imagine, if you can, Iran taking the field against the USA in a world cup match with a logo on their shirt which the Americans say promotes terrorism, but the Iranians say is a respectful commemoration of Islamic martyrs. The USA says this is a glorification of the 9/11 terrorists.... Iran say it isn't...... We say.... they say......

Can't happen..? Of course you'll say it can't because such a scenario wouldn't sit comfortably with your agenda. I'll agree it is a speculative scenario, but to say that it, or something like it, could never happen is just sticking your head in the sand.

FIFA allows this particular Pandora's Box to be thrown wide open at their peril.

The "No Politics" rule is a sensible one and must apply to everybody. Even (shock, horror..!!) the English.
Cornish_Piskie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 19:07
Eurostar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,587
How on earth is the poppy worth a bigger fine than the Irish emblem
The Republic's FA merely put the dates '1916-2016' in small letters on their shirt underneath the team crest and may not even have been aware they were breaching a FIFA regulation.
Eurostar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 19:10
timboy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 26,378
They have claimed England have been fined more for being at home, but they have also included punishment for spectators wearing poppies.

I hope no one tries to defend that action.
Celtic have been fined for the support showing political expressions in the stands, no difference here.

All other sports allow it, without a problem. Why is that?
You've made this claim before. It wasn't true then and it certainly isn't true now.

Anyone with an inkling of knowledge of Fifa can see what they're up to in relation to their ongoing problems with England.
It appears that the UK and NI teams thought they were above the rules and have been knocked down a peg or two. No bad thing.
timboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 19:16
CLL Dodge
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Green Hills of Earth
Posts: 80,413
You break the rules, you pay the price.

The FAs should have forgotten the poppies and just given the cash to the charity.
CLL Dodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 19:28
LuvJamTarts
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 215
where are the scots and irish that earlier were complaining the english are wrong, stuck up, arrogant etc

Did they not even know their own FAs were doing the exact same thing? Or is it only wrong if england are doing something.
LuvJamTarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 19:36
EStaffs90
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Underneath Tom Hiddleston
Posts: 6,700
The fines are pathetic.

The simple answer is, call off the game until players are wearing the correct kit.
And also make sure that the spectators aren't wearing anything politicial or religious.

Also - when are FIFA going to ban national flags from international matches? (Because surely flags are political.)
EStaffs90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2016, 19:57
posiepebbles
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,013
And also make sure that the spectators aren't wearing anything politicial or religious.

Also - when are FIFA going to ban national flags from international matches? (Because surely flags are political.)
Yep, flags are intrinsically political. As is, by extension, the wearing of shirts in the colours of those flags. Are they going to start demanding that players run around stark naked? (Not saying I'd object too much to that, mind )
posiepebbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 01:27
Eurostar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,587
And also make sure that the spectators aren't wearing anything politicial or religious.

Also - when are FIFA going to ban national flags from international matches? (Because surely flags are political.)
Not necessarily : the flag represents everything about that country, not just it's government....the people, the culture, sometimes even the landscape and geography.
Eurostar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 09:20
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
Whether the war is approved of or not by some sour people, the dead remain dead, and the charity is about them, not politics.

Fifas fine is trivial, because they know it isn't worth the bother of appealing. All other sports allow it. Why is Fifa different?
Its all about politics, and you have allowed yourself to be manipulated by lots of factions, as has been pointed out to you many times here. Just because you personally cannot see it, doesnt make you correct.

Even if you do not accept that you personally cannot see the poppy as political, lots of people do - especially internationally.

And if FIfa allow the UK to do this, it becomes a free for all. You and the daily mail will be the first to complain of a symbol on an opponents shirt you dont agree with!
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 09:59
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,262
Its all about politics, and you have allowed yourself to be manipulated by lots of factions, as has been pointed out to you many times here. Just because you personally cannot see it, doesnt make you correct.

Even if you do not accept that you personally cannot see the poppy as political, lots of people do - especially internationally.

And if FIfa allow the UK to do this, it becomes a free for all. You and the daily mail will be the first to complain of a symbol on an opponents shirt you dont agree with!
What other symbols are there around the world that have caused problems, apart from all those you've made up of course.?

The poppy is what it is, and it's meaning cannot be changed by those with agendas of their own, such as you.

Who are all the other international people that have a problem with it? Many sports have allowed the poppy without a word.
Deep Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:00
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,262
Not necessarily : the flag represents everything about that country, not just it's government....the people, the culture, sometimes even the landscape and geography.
I've no problem with flags, but if you want to go down the route of some people see it as political, then some flags come into that.
Deep Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:14
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
What other symbols are there around the world that have caused problems, apart from all those you've made up of course.?

The poppy is what it is, and it's meaning cannot be changed by those with agendas of their own, such as you.

Who are all the other international people that have a problem with it? Many sports have allowed the poppy without a word.
Fifa are the international footballing governing body. Their tournament, their rules.

England broke the rules, they get fined.

I do not want to see political symbols like poppies on shirts. I cannot respect or want to remember about people killed when trying to kill others in illegal wars for cash. The legion use it to make money for themselves, the uk government use it as propaganda. The poppy is tainted forever.

Do I want to remember those who died fighting having volunteered or were conscripted during we2? Heck yes. Absolutely. At the right time and the right place.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:33
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,262
Fifa are the international footballing governing body. Their tournament, their rules.

England broke the rules, they get fined.

I do not want to see political symbols like poppies on shirts. I cannot respect or want to remember about people killed when trying to kill others in illegal wars for cash. The legion use it to make money for themselves, the uk government use it as propaganda. The poppy is tainted forever.

Do I want to remember those who died fighting having volunteered or were conscripted during we2? Heck yes. Absolutely. At the right time and the right place.
Fifa have made an incorrect interpretation of their rules, based on the whingers, such as you, because they have no love for England either.

Your pretence that Fifa are a noble organisation imposing fair play across the globe is a joke. This is Fifa. Have you noticed what they've done over the years?

The pathetic fines reflect the non importance of it, but it makes a point for them, and they get support from those who complain about everything English.
Deep Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:19.