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FIFA bans poppies on shirts for the England v Scotland match


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Old 01-11-2016, 12:14
swingaleg
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They would be political symbols in those cases.
I don't see the difference........we're remembering our dead in our wars, they would be remembering their dead in their wars
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:18
codeblue
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They would be political symbols in those cases.
every part of this link:

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/reme...-of-the-poppy/

IS political, and doesnt belong on a football pitch
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:30
Deep Purple
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I don't see the difference........we're remembering our dead in our wars, they would be remembering their dead in their wars
The poppy is something that has been in place for many decades, and it's background is not political.

Your scenarios dont exist, and until they do, they are not worth considering to be honest.

Certain groups have tried to make it that way for their own reasons, and these people should be ignored.

It is what it is, and always has been.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:50
CLL Dodge
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Can't they have a poppy on their undervests, then any player who wants to make an issue of it can get himself fined, yellow-carded or whatever, as with any other personal message.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:53
exstoker84
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Don't see the problem with it myself but it can't be one rule for one and one rule for another.

Let's just get on with the football.
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Old 01-11-2016, 13:01
pedrok
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The poppy is something that has been in place for many decades, and it's background is not political.

Your scenarios dont exist, and until they do, they are not worth considering to be honest.

Certain groups have tried to make it that way for their own reasons, and these people should be ignored.

It is what it is, and always has been.
Yes, the poppy has been in place for many decades, and until the last decade wearing poppies on football shirts was something that wasn't done. So it isn't as it 'always has been'.

And the poppy is political, it has became political.
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Old 01-11-2016, 13:02
walterwhite
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The poppy has been used as a symbol of remembrance since 1921, it only seems recently clubs have decided to have it on their shirts. Personally if we've managed without it on shirts for almost 100 years then we can carry on managing.
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Old 01-11-2016, 13:11
codeblue
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and of course, if you dare NOT wear a poppy, you will be targeted.

freedom of speech eh
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Old 01-11-2016, 14:48
RichmondBlue
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I agree with FIFA that they shouldn't have them on shirts

It's alright for us to say 'this is our symbol, so of course it's OK' but what if some Islamist country decides to put a symbol remembering their glorious dead suicide bombers or sometime in a different future the Irish Republic decides to have a symbol remembering the IRA Volunteers who gave their lives for a United Ireland

It's a slippery slope to base on argument on 'ours is alright because we're British but those foreigners should be banned from doing it'
But the very thing about wearing a poppy that makes it different to the examples you gave is that it represents all those who gave their lives in wars. That includes those who may have been our enemies at some time in the past.
Years ago, I would never wear a poppy, I considered it a glorification of war (even if they didn't admit it) but things have changed. These days it's as much to do with the futility of war, and the bravery of those who gave their lives following the ego trips of politicians and other dubious leaders, I don't think that's a bad message to spread around the world.
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Old 01-11-2016, 15:10
The_Moth
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I always wear a poppy but honestly an argument about whether our football teams have a poppy printed on their shirt for a match is a lot of fuss over nothing. I can see why FIFA would not want to create a precedent and it really doesn't matter either way.
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Old 01-11-2016, 15:55
The_don1
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But the very thing about wearing a poppy that makes it different to the examples you gave is that it represents all those who gave their lives in wars. That includes those who may have been our enemies at some time in the past.
Years ago, I would never wear a poppy, I considered it a glorification of war (even if they didn't admit it) but things have changed. These days it's as much to do with the futility of war, and the bravery of those who gave their lives following the ego trips of politicians and other dubious leaders, I don't think that's a bad message to spread around the world.
The trouble is if you allow one message to spread you will have someone come along wanting to spread another message and another and another etc, That's why we have rules in place, Yes sometimes it means a positive one will be stopped but without such rules FIFA would need to spend time and resources on such incidents like this when its really a waste of their time, It's a shame but there are plenty of things England can do to remember the dead etc without putting the poppy on their shirts and prob many better ways as well, To me this just smacks of the media having a pop at FIFA because its a very easy thing to do and these types of stories can be knocked up in 10 minutes by someone on work experience
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Old 01-11-2016, 16:08
celesti
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I don't like how the start of November has become feeding time for people snarling at anyone choosing not to wear a poppy that remembers those that died to protect our freedom to choose not to do things. The Sun bloody loves it.
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Old 01-11-2016, 16:10
RichmondBlue
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The trouble is if you allow one message to spread you will have someone come along wanting to spread another message and another and another etc, That's why we have rules in place, Yes sometimes it means a positive one will be stopped but without such rules FIFA would need to spend time and resources on such incidents like this when its really a waste of their time, It's a shame but there are plenty of things England can do to remember the dead etc without putting the poppy on their shirts and prob many better ways as well, To me this just smacks of the media having a pop at FIFA because its a very easy thing to do and these types of stories can be knocked up in 10 minutes by someone on work experience
To be honest, it doesn't bother me that much either way. I'm probably in the same camp as the media on this one, and can't resist having a go at FIFA at any opportunity.
Right or wrong, I'd probably automatically oppose FIFA about anything they said. My disgust for that organisation ran so deep, for so long, I just can't help it.
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Old 01-11-2016, 16:32
Jason C
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I don't like how the start of November has become feeding time for people snarling at anyone choosing not to wear a poppy that remembers those that died to protect our freedom to choose not to do things. The Sun bloody loves it.
I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of thing was tacitly encouraged by the Royal British Legion themselves so people buy poppies purely out of the collective peer pressure that emerges at this time of year.

Their website states that "wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories" but I doubt they convey the same viewpoint in their press briefings.

Anyway, to bring this thread back on topic, the Scottish FA has just announced that FIFA have turned down the request for poppies on the shirts.
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Old 01-11-2016, 16:49
Jim_McIntosh
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I can understand. Political expressions within sport have the potential to cause unrest. Poppies -- obviously not (to 99.9999% of people I would have thought) -- but they will be working on the basis that they are a sports body and have no will or aptitude to determine which political symbols are good and which are bad when it's easier just to keep them out of sport altogether. It will be the thin end of the wedge argument and it's easier to have none rather than test each as they come.
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Old 01-11-2016, 17:17
The_don1
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Does wearing the poppy fall into any of the categories mentioned ? It's certainly not religious. I don't see that it's political either. I thought the poppy these days has become a symbol of remembrance for all the war dead, not just the British.
You could argue its commercial, While it might be classed as fundraising as well, The symbol is "sold" via badges etc
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Old 01-11-2016, 17:19
codeblue
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I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of thing was tacitly encouraged by the Royal British Legion themselves so people buy poppies purely out of the collective peer pressure that emerges at this time of year.
Like any "charity", they use underhand tactics and peer pressure to conduct their business. I will never wear a poppy because of this, and for similar reasons i give chuggers short thrift in the street and my biggest look of distain.

If FIFA allow this, they open themselves up to a huge number of things, some of which poppy wearers would find most distasteful and uncomfortable im sure.

Football should be secular and free from politics. It has enough with team tribalism, to inject yet more madness into the stadium is too much
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Old 01-11-2016, 18:11
dodrade
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Surely International Football as a concept (including the accompanying flags and anthems) is itself political?
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Old 01-11-2016, 18:24
John_Adam1
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I agree with Fifa's decision 100%.
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Old 01-11-2016, 18:28
John_Adam1
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I agree with FIFA that they shouldn't have them on shirts

It's alright for us to say 'this is our symbol, so of course it's OK' but what if some Islamist country decides to put a symbol remembering their glorious dead suicide bombers or sometime in a different future the Irish Republic decides to have a symbol remembering the IRA Volunteers who gave their lives for a United Ireland

It's a slippery slope to base on argument on 'ours is alright because we're British but those foreigners should be banned from doing it'
Excellently well put.

just because some do not see it as political, others do!

for similar reasons i would object to a cross on the shirt etc etc

lets just play football eh
Great post.
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Old 01-11-2016, 18:57
Cornish_Piskie
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All this wearing of poppies..... a compulsory minute's silence when the training ground tea ladies cat dies....... breaking out in spontaneous applause during so-and-so minute of every match to commemorate a fan who walked in front of a bus of that number when he was staggering home drunk after a match one night three seasons ago..... is all a pretty recent phenomena and I think it's more a case of football creating a theatre within a theatre.

What do you go to a football match for..? To watch a football match, perhaps..?

Or do you go because you want to make a statement about a war that happened more than 100 years ago, and which until recently nobody really gave a toss about until the Afghanistan war became a media event and led to the appalling spectacle of "grief tourism" whenever hearses bearing flag draped coffins trundled through Wooton Basset like so many flower-bedecked carnival floats

Remembrance has become a hype and everybody has to join in or risk being labelled "disrespectful" and not showing enough "gratitude" for those who have "made the ultimate sacrifice."

It isn't just football that does this, it's spread across the entire sporting canon and is getting, frankly, silly now.

Do footballers really NEED to wear a poppy on their shirt..? Will it make them better players..? Do we really need to have Corporal Bloggs marching into the middle of the pitch before the game with a wreath that gets put there for a minute while somebody plays the Last Post (badly) and it then gets taken away...? Does that make us better people..?

Every year we remember the fallen of two world wars on Remembrance Sunday. The Queen lays a wreath at the Cenotaph on behalf of the nation and two minutes silence is observed at 11 am.

And that's it.

We can show respect by wearing a poppy and observing the two minutes silence. It doesn't have to be turned into an orgiastic display of everybody trying to outdo everybody else...... "Hey, I'm wearing a bigger poppy than you."

Until "Remembrance" became an industry, with a very lucrative tourist trade in Battlefield Site Tours, Wooton Basset (now Royal Wooton Basset) doing very nicely indeed out of Grief Tourism, and soldiers wives singing sentimental, mawkish ballads (awfully), the National Festival of Remembrance was as much as was needed to remember the fallen.

Football, like all other sports, is just following the bandwagon. Half the players in the Premier League probably haven't got a bloody clue what it's all about and IRA sympathiser James McLean at WBA would probably turn his back if he thought he'd get away with it

It's a hype. How about football just goes back to being about playing football..?
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Old 01-11-2016, 19:36
exstoker84
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All this wearing of poppies..... a compulsory minute's silence when the training ground tea ladies cat dies....... breaking out in spontaneous applause during so-and-so minute of every match to commemorate a fan who walked in front of a bus of that number when he was staggering home drunk after a match one night three seasons ago..... is all a pretty recent phenomena and I think it's more a case of football creating a theatre within a theatre.

What do you go to a football match for..? To watch a football match, perhaps..?

Or do you go because you want to make a statement about a war that happened more than 100 years ago, and which until recently nobody really gave a toss about until the Afghanistan war became a media event and led to the appalling spectacle of "grief tourism" whenever hearses bearing flag draped coffins trundled through Wooton Basset like so many flower-bedecked carnival floats

Remembrance has become a hype and everybody has to join in or risk being labelled "disrespectful" and not showing enough "gratitude" for those who have "made the ultimate sacrifice."

It isn't just football that does this, it's spread across the entire sporting canon and is getting, frankly, silly now.

Do footballers really NEED to wear a poppy on their shirt..? Will it make them better players..? Do we really need to have Corporal Bloggs marching into the middle of the pitch before the game with a wreath that gets put there for a minute while somebody plays the Last Post (badly) and it then gets taken away...? Does that make us better people..?

Every year we remember the fallen of two world wars on Remembrance Sunday. The Queen lays a wreath at the Cenotaph on behalf of the nation and two minutes silence is observed at 11 am.

And that's it.

We can show respect by wearing a poppy and observing the two minutes silence. It doesn't have to be turned into an orgiastic display of everybody trying to outdo everybody else...... "Hey, I'm wearing a bigger poppy than you."

Until "Remembrance" became an industry, with a very lucrative tourist trade in Battlefield Site Tours, Wooton Basset (now Royal Wooton Basset) doing very nicely indeed out of Grief Tourism, and soldiers wives singing sentimental, mawkish ballads (awfully), the National Festival of Remembrance was as much as was needed to remember the fallen.

Football, like all other sports, is just following the bandwagon. Half the players in the Premier League probably haven't got a bloody clue what it's all about and IRA sympathiser James McLean at WBA would probably turn his back if he thought he'd get away with it

It's a hype. How about football just goes back to being about playing football..?
Great post. Pretty much sums up how I feel.
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Old 01-11-2016, 19:44
NorthernNinny
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Like any "charity", they use underhand tactics and peer pressure to conduct their business. I will never wear a poppy because of this, and for similar reasons i give chuggers short thrift in the street and my biggest look of distain.

If FIFA allow this, they open themselves up to a huge number of things, some of which poppy wearers would find most distasteful and uncomfortable im sure.

Football should be secular and free from politics. It has enough with team tribalism, to inject yet more madness into the stadium is too much
I presume you have evidence to back up your argument that they are using underhand tactics to conduct their business or are you just going off on one again?
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Old 01-11-2016, 19:57
skinj
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Until "Remembrance" became an industry, with a very lucrative tourist trade in Battlefield Site Tours, Wooton Basset (now Royal Wooton Basset) doing very nicely indeed out of Grief Tourism, and soldiers wives singing sentimental, mawkish ballads (awfully), the National Festival of Remembrance was as much as was needed to remember the fallen.
Wootton Bassett, now Royal Wootton Bassett (see the spelling) would have been more than happy to not have become the focal point of the repatriations. There was no effort by the people of RWB to turn the repatriations in to any sort of grief tourism at all. The initial displays of support on the High St were simply carried out by local RBL members (from memory) as a mark of respect as the vehicles drove past. As they did this the locals became aware of what was happening and stood in support of those that failed to home too. This went on for some time before sadly the media became involved and hyped the "event" and this was requested to stop http://socialistunity.com/leave-us-a...-media-circus/

As far as I am aware, no one took the opportunity to make money from the repatriations, yes some of the hotels, bars, restaurants might have taken more money on the days the repatriations took place as more people came to the town from outside, but I know that many locals actively chose not to use the High St at these times due eventually to the volume of people there (mainly the media that didn't need to be there) making it difficult to get around.
The respect shown by the people of Bassett during this time was truly emotional and made me happy to have been brought up in such a place. The appreciation for what was done has been recognised by the title of Royal being given to the town which again was not requested but humbly accepted by the town.
A local artist & sculptor has also created a permanent piece that he donated to town as a thank you & opened by Princess Anne. http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/n...ated/#gallery0
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Old 01-11-2016, 20:03
skinj
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In regards to the Eng/Sco game there is a simple solution to not being allowed to display poppies on the strips.
Sell all the advertising in the ground to the British Legion for 1p & instead of St George's cross being created with coloured signs by the fans, create a giant poppy image instead, again technically paid for by the Royal British Legion for the sum of 1p.
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