Well I always think that if you spend years, or even months, learning a dance, the last thing you want is for some celeb to spend a week learning it and turn in a brilliant authentic performance. If you haven't spent time learning it, then you should have less investment. So yes, 'if' does carry a certain amount of weight.........

I get it wasn't perfect, or perhaps not even authentic in any way but I enjoyed it regardless. It was nice to see Louise go for it, be super serious and have a little intensity.

That's all that matters though, we don't have to be experts to enjoy a performance .

Saying that I do like reading the experts on here about how a dance should be done and watching the authentic dances on utube .

I was looking at Kevin and knew his wide stance was wrong and it would be lovely to see them do the AT walk . This guy Matt Flint doesn't seem to have any AT qualifications so why he was helping them I don't know .

It is very strange they don't get a true expert in to coach them on the AT and Salsa. Also love reading the experts on here, nice when some know what's what.

My post did not mention ballroom swing and sway. You have misread my post entirely for reasons best known to you and misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was talking about dance basics like axis, balance and neat feet - which every dance needs - not the extreme ballroom gyrations.

I admire your knowledge of ballroom, but I am afraid AT is not your expertise at all. You may have tried a bit of AT but it does seem that you did not quite grasp what it is.

Not everyone does.

Most people just find it too difficult and far too demanding if ballroom is their preferred style.

Usual sarcastic reply from you as I would expect. You never fail to disappoint.

I "misread your post for reasons best known to me" as i was and am at work but wanted to quickly reply, perhaps I should not have until I had the time to look through the post properly.

As for your reply, I HAVE NEVER SEEN GYRATIONS IN BALLROOM. Nor should there be any !!

Also, I have never said or pretended that AT was my level of expertise, far from it, I leave that to the experts such as yourself.

Yes I have had a few lessons to try and learn AT , but it was not for me. I like watching it and admire those that are knowledegable and good at it, but it was not for me. Given the two disciplines, I am happy to stay with what I am good at and improve further.

Complete and utter rubbish! I danced AT for some time and did not find it difficult when compared to other dance styles. I went back to specialise in ballroom only because I preferred it.

To be honest, I am not doubting your knowledge of AT, but from your posts I've never seen anything to convince me that you have any in depth understanding of ballroom technique. Quite the opposite in fact.

All of this "authentic" debate really underlines what Strictly is all about and why it seems so silly people get so invested in it being a "dance show" rather than light entertainment.

It also highlights another point, the tendency for modern life to dumb-down on all sorts of aspects. I'm a musician, not by trade, but heavily involved in performance and stuff. If I was to play some Jazz or Classical music in the office, people say to me that it is self indulgent, to which I reply, all music is self-indulgent (well substitute any art-form there really). Call me a snob, but people are not interested in stretching themselves with regards to the arts (or sciences for that matter). No we don't all have to be experts, but to treat the ersatz that is dished up as popular music as all that matters is pushing other stuff even further to the boundaries. It is becoming ever harder for people trying to push the envelope to get heard or accepted and for me that is very sad.

I agree with you. Dumbing down just leads to a shallow, throwaway culture that has less and less meaning, and a lot less soul. I no longer dance professionally, but that will never make me love music less nor honour the traditions of the dances I do and respect my teachers for sharing their and talent with me. The least I can do is my very best. Why would I not?

My that's some statement there, so because some people take weeks and months to learn something, no one else can shine because otherwise they would be showing off

Or something.


Odd, personally I love it when someone discovers they can do something unexpected really well. I thought that was the whole thing about learning differing styles of dance on SCD.

You must be gnashing your teeth a lot of the time on a Saturday.

Coppertop, that comment was rather tongue in cheek, as I think you well know. and was made in the context of less than generous comments from others about Louise and Kevin's AT. I think you will find that I have always been reasonably generous in my comments about the celebs' ballroom dancing (which is my main interest and area of skill) and have expressed admiration at how quickly they learn under pressure. Furthermore I am not someone who has constantly criticised Louise and Kevin who are under discussion here.

Given the gnashing of teeth on the NAT thread to which you contribute, and the constant denigration of Louise and Kevin (which I don't accept as just humorous comment), I don't think you are in a postion to take some moral high ground here or to patronise other posters.

Delete - duplicate post

It may have something to do with dark and handsome men. Kevin does not fit into that category. I thought Ramps was good and looked the part. I did not like Karen at all. Kristina and Simon's routine was very impressive despite Simon's "what-do-I-do-with-this-firecracker" look.

No I don't know it is tongue in cheek at all. It seems to me that your post was very much against the spirit of willing on the celebs to do well.

And I would say that if you don't recognise that the NAT is tongue in cheek, it seems rather ........... Odd for you to post in there, which you have. Quite a bit lately.


I did not like Kevin and Loiuse's dance it lacked so many of the basic things that should be in an AT dance, it was to me a series of poses not linked as a dance at all.
Technically she was wobbly and off balance a lot. Now would you like to explain to me why my opinion is attacking Kevin and Loiuse?

Moral high ground, now that is an interesting comment.......

I wonder why that was brought up at all. I will leave it there.

This thread seems to have taken quite a snarky turn. Not pleasant reading when posters attack other FMs.

I am not a dancer, I have two left feet and could trip over a feather. But I love watching people do things I cannot do, learning a new skill and executing it well. And there is the rub for me with Louise. I don't believe her AT was executed well. As others have said, she was wobbly, and she didn't seem to finish moves off properly. I've only learned about AT from this programe and from videos on You Tube, and I'm really grateful to Sofakat for explaining the correct way to dance it and posting some of the most amazing videos. However, even with my very limited knowledge, Louise's AT didn't look right. It was like those clothes you get wih the unfinished seams on the outside. It's a fashion statement and it looks like clothes but it's messy and not nice to look at.

If Louise and Kevin fans think this is bashing them, well, you're wrong. It's simply disagreeing with the view that they turned in an AT, let alone a perfect one.

Coppertop, there have been over 11,850 replies in the NAT thread and I have posted 15 times in total (hardly quite a lot), last recent 3 times just to ask how to get rid of pop up ads in the forum and then to politely thank you for your response and to correct someone who said a dance video was a rumba when it wasn't.

I tell you what, I won't post there again. Also, rather than me continuing to argue with you about my motivations, which you profess to understand so well, people can make up their own minds from my posting history as to whether I am ungenerous in my posts about the celebs and am willing them to do badly.

Interesting thread. I know nothing about dance and can only react intuitively to what I see. I thought the routine maybe looked a tiny bit too difficult for Louise but was a really brave effort. Even as a non-dancer, I am not expecting to see authentic dances on Strictly given the short learning time and am happy with an approximation with some smoke and mirrors and chutzpah thrown in - possibly more entertaining for a non-dancey audience giving us the chance to play judge, which we really couldn't otherwise. On that basis, I was a little surprised by the 10s - I was expecting 9s for a couple of wobbly moments but amazing effort. But I expected 9s for Ore's jive and 10s for Danny's Quickstep, so what do I know?!

Careful, Ann - you may have just painted a bullseye on yourself