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Is EastEnders in the predicament Corrie has been in for many years?


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Old 06-11-2016, 23:57
ASHomez
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... i.e. competing demographics demanding different things from the show. Older viewers preferring more conventional, character driven storytelling, and younger viewers demanding more sensationalist, immediate gratification style storylines?
It's something I've thought for a while. The soap genre was certainly never invented to be dramatised in the way it has been in recent years. Why invent a programme that runs every week all year round if you're going to make them as action packed as a film or drama series chronicling one event over many months or years. Surely multiple killers per family in a soap was never sustainable? The point of a soap is surely to show every day interaction with drama gradually building from the characters? Imo, soaps have dug their own hole with increased sensationalism in recent years.

Has EE reached a point where there is sufficient polarisation amongst its viewers where the show will struggle to please either, which, arguably, has been the case for Corrie for many years?
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:02
al_capo
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... i.e. competing demographics demanding different things from the show. Older viewers preferring more conventional, character driven storytelling, and younger viewers demanding more sensationalist, immediate gratification style storylines?
It's something I've thought for a while. The soap genre was certainly never invented to be dramatised in the way it has been in recent years. Why invent a programme that runs every week all year round if you're going to make them as action packed as a film or drama series chronicling one event over many months or years. Surely multiple killers per family in a soap was never sustainable? The point of a soap is surely to show every day interaction with drama gradually building from the characters? Imo, soaps have dug their own hole with increased sensationalism in recent years.

Has EE reached a point where there is sufficient polarisation amongst its viewers where the show will struggle to please either, which, arguably, has been the case for Corrie for many years?
All I know is that Corrie has been rubbish for years, and now Eastenders is also rubbish, so yeah they're in the same predicament.
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:05
ASHomez
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All I know is that Corrie has been rubbish for years, and now Eastenders is also rubbish, so yeah they're in the same predicament.
When do you think Corrie became rubbish?
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:07
mw0390
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I don't think Eastenders is in any predicament, it's been fantastic recently
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:17
ASHomez
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I don't think Eastenders is in any predicament, it's been fantastic recently
And you've been registered since 05. My guess is you're a bit older than the average twitter teen?
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:20
mw0390
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And you've been registered since 05. My guess is you're a bit older than the average twitter teen?
Well im 28, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy some sensationalism, but the difference in quality in Eastenders since SOC took over has been remarkable
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:25
ASHomez
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Well im 28, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy some sensationalism, but the difference in quality in Eastenders since SOC took over has been remarkable
I agree. SOC's approach is the only one that makes sense. But I remember when positive twitter comments were universally used on here as a way of buttressing posts praising EE's quality. As was trending.
(P.s. I lost interest in soaps years ago and don't really have an iron in the fire regards the debate, though corrie was always my preferred soap. But I do still have a residual academic interest and watch them all from time to time. )
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:27
mw0390
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I agree. SOC's approach is the only one that makes sense. But I remember when positive twitter comments were universally used on here as a way of buttressing posts praising EE's quality. As was trending.
(P.s. I lost interest in soaps years ago and don't really have an iron in the fire regards the debate, though corrie was always my preferred soap. But I do still have a residual academic interest and watch them all from time to time. )
Viewing figures haven't gone down for Eastenders so the viewer base is still there
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:28
ASHomez
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Viewing figures haven't gone down for Eastenders so the viewer base is still there
Do you think there has been an increased divide in the fanbase?
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:31
mw0390
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Do you think there has been an increased divide in the fanbase?
I do think there is a certain section of the fan base pissed that SOC axed a lot of characters, and I think that will come out even more on Twitter when Ronnie and Roxy leave, but I think long term SOC will be a very good appointment for Eastenders
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:43
ASHomez
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I do think there is a certain section of the fan base pissed that SOC axed a lot of characters, and I think that will come out even more on Twitter when Ronnie and Roxy leave, but I think long term SOC will be a very good appointment for Eastenders
I agree 100%.

I suppose another way of looking at it is that EE is over 30 years old now. The same age Corrie was in the early to mid nineties. It seems to me that EE is going through an inversion of the transition phase Corrie was going through then. I.e. a more back to basics approach for EE now as opposed to a more modern sensationalist approach Corrie was attempting then in response to the more edgy EE and Brookside. Is EE now leading the pack in a new, more sustainable phase of the soap genre?

Corrie certainly didn't have an easy transition, and didn't really his its stride until the early naughties.

It seems as a TV show gets older, the harder it is to balance the views and interests of all viewers.
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Old 07-11-2016, 00:51
mw0390
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I agree 100%.

I suppose another way of looking at it is that EE is over 30 years old now. The same age Corrie was in the early to mid nineties. It seems to me that EE is going through an inversion of the transition phase Corrie was going through then. I.e. a more back to basics approach for EE now as opposed to a more modern sensationalist approach Corrie was attempting then in response to the more edgy EE and Brookside. Is EE now leading the pack in a new, more sustainable phase of the soap genre?

Corrie certainly didn't have an easy transition, and didn't really his its stride until the early naughties.

It seems as a TV show gets older, the harder it is to balance the views and interests of all viewers.

Completely agree, doesn't help that the social media audience were spoiled under DTC who hyped everything up on Twitter and Facebook, and basically used that to platform to base how he ran the show, in fact I was surprised he killed Lucy off and that Twitter didn't explode
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:07
Keibro
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I've been a visitor to this forum for many years now and EastEnders, more than any other soap is scrutinised a lot more. If it's dramatic and big oh it's too OTT, if it's everyday character stories, oh it's boring! look at Emmerdale, 12 car pile up, why can't EastEnders do that? So it will never win.

Personally, Coronation Street is still recovering from a horrendous couple of years and even now, is still not out of the woods. The storylines have a bit more of an edge to them is all.

EastEnders's Friday episode with Lee and Whitney's wedding was heartbreaking and poignant. It didn't need a big revelation, screaming row, punch up etc, instead it focused very much on Lee and his alarmingly dwindling mental health. The end of the episode in particular was quite harrowing. I really enjoyed it and I'm interested to see more of this story. Sean O'Connor and the team have gradually brought Lee's mental health story back to the forefront, instead of devoting weeks to it and then dropping it.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:49
Aaron_Silver
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Completely agree, doesn't help that the social media audience were spoiled under DTC who hyped everything up on Twitter and Facebook, and basically used that to platform to base how he ran the show, in fact I was surprised he killed Lucy off and that Twitter didn't explode
Am I the only person on the planet that really doesn't give a sh!t (Or read the idiots comments) on twitter and facebook?

My position is this - I liked many of DTC's ideas but the standard of writing, and some of the cast leaving/getting pregnant etc, scuppered many decent storylines, the who killed Lucy in particular when Jac Jossa got pregnant, Ben Hardy and Mimi Keene left and I think this forced re-writes of some of the original idea and DTC then allowed silliness to reign.

SOC has indeed done the programme a great service in revising the writing and making sure characters are concentrated on rather than sensationalism, however, the axings were hasty and in some cases foolish easy targets. If you tidy up the writing so viewers get interested in the characters again, only for them to being written out it seems rather pointless. The Cokers and Lee Carter are prime examples of characters who had plenty more mileage in them but weren't given a chance to work with the improved material before the decision to axe was made. I am yet to be convinced he has a clear vision of what is required, but will give him more than a month or two before I start demanding his head on a spike.

I am one of those who is a long term viewer (I've watched from the beginning) but I am not quite ready to join the blue rinse brigade yet.

Thanks
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:50
al_capo
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When do you think Corrie became rubbish?
When Stuart Blackburn took over, it just hasn't been the same. I cant see Kate Oates making it any better either. They need new characters.
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Old 07-11-2016, 02:18
Stupid_Head
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When Stuart Blackburn took over, it just hasn't been the same. I cant see Kate Oates making it any better either. They need new characters.
But then look at the new characters they create, those two horrendous people forced onto Roy, the new Connors who are a borefest.

I think it's writers that's the biggest problem with Corrie, also keeping hold off their many long term in training b list characters like Fizz, Sean etc
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:09
dee123
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Viewing figures haven't gone down for Eastenders so the viewer base is still there
People just put in on out of habit and it's in the background. Not the same as watching it.
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:40
SegaGamer
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The last month of Eastenders has been far better than anything we have i had in the previous 12 months.
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:46
mw0390
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People just put in on out of habit and it's in the background. Not the same as watching it.
you have no evidence to back that up though
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:49
Stupid_Head
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I would say if anything, out of the big three EastEnders has the most fickle audience. It has more teens watching and tweeting about it than the other two and they are more likely to switch off rather than just have on in the background.

At least that is what it has been accused of in the past, having kiddies and tweens on FB and twitter dictate what happens on the show.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:41
LHolmes
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People just put in on out of habit and it's in the background. Not the same as watching it.
You could say that about any show.


To answer the OP, I think all soaps have viewers who watch for different things.

I don't think EastEnders is done with drama/big storylines and that eventually there will be a mix. I think SOC is just tying up loose ends and making us care about characters before starting his own storylines.

I don't imagine he'll go to the lengths DTC did at times in his storytelling but fortunately you don't need to to have exciting storylines. Some of the storylines where DTC took things to extremes still ended up being boring.

As for Corrie I think the big issue there is that they struggle to pull anything off these days without making viewers cringe. The high drama and everyday scenes are generally both poorly executed. However, I'm an on/off viewer and haven't watched it much recently. Some think it's improving, others disagree.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:57
Helicase
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As a younger viewer of Corrie I much prefer the authentic character driven storytelling. Problem is in Corrie - too many of the scenes that aren't supposed to be dramatic are played totally for laughs. Unfortunately Corrie have forgotten how to do this naturally and it all comes across as forced and over the top.

When I watch EastEnders I often find it quite boring BUT it seems more natural that Corrie at the minute.
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Old 07-11-2016, 09:22
Ten_Ben
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As a younger viewer of Corrie I much prefer the authentic character driven storytelling. Problem is in Corrie - too many of the scenes that aren't supposed to be dramatic are played totally for laughs. Unfortunately Corrie have forgotten how to do this naturally and it all comes across as forced and over the top.

When I watch EastEnders I often find it quite boring BUT it seems more natural that Corrie at the minute.
Corrie has some wonderful characters but also too many silly, cartoonish ones. It's difficult to see many of them as 'real' or as 'credible' and that's down to the writers and the rather odd plots that have been dished up in recent years. It's all a bit messy. They've tried too hard with the comedy aspect which used to be subtle and clever but has become brash and cartoon-like. It's all a bit unreal, a bit old-fashioned, a bit rose-tinted, it just doesn't feel like it's a slice of real people living in 2016.

EE in recent months has managed to concentrate on making the characters realistic people again. They're interacting, chatting and exchanging banter in a natural way. They've turned characters that we didn't particularly like or care about into people who are becoming normal, everyday people we can relate to. All down to attention to detail and clever writing. Quite remarkable really. Okay, it's meant that sensationalism has gone and plots have been simmering rather than exploding. Yes, people have accused it of becoming boring but it's more than likely a temporary phase that'll enable us to care about the forthcoming stories more now that the characters have regained some sense of personality and realism.

DTC got carried away in the second half of his tenure and it was going to kill the show if it continued. Too much was happening too quickly and it wasn't credible or realistic. In fact, much of it wasn't even memorable, it was a blur. It was a shame as his first year was superb, unfortunately he seemed to get swept up on the initial praise and went OTT with his retconning and fan-fiction.

People accuse of SOC coming in and wielding the axe, getting rid of the wrong characters. Given how he's transformed Pam, Les and Lee, you have to kind of wonder if it's right to lose them but he must have a long-term vision where the departing characters aren't needed. He could have made some easy decisions to axe the likes of Ian, Jane and Phil as they're going to be hard to redeem but he hasn't and you have to give him credit for that, it'll be interesting to see where he takes these characters as they need a lot of work and have some serious problems to deal with.

Conversely, KO hasn't even found the axe under her desk. She needs to... fast. The characters need sorting out as much as the writing, she needs to take a leaf out of SOC's book and shake up the cast considerably, it needs new blood. Too many characters are just festering and few, if any, of those introduced in the last two or three years are working.
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Old 07-11-2016, 12:40
bass55
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I think EastEnders is in a transition phase, and Christmas/New Year will be the start of SOC's storylines. As LHolmes said it does feel like he's setting the show up for a new era by tying up some loose ends and improving/developing characters. Given the recent axings I expect we will see lots of new characters in 2017.

I'm enjoying it at the moment even if it isn't exactly action-packed. It reminds me of what EastEnders was like 20+ years ago. However, I do understand why this must be frustrating for newer viewers who are used to the twists and OMG moments of the Santer/Kirkwood/DTC eras. SOC has a more measured approach to drama but it's silly to suggest he can't or won't provide big storylines; he was story producer during what was arguably EastEnders' most successful period ever - the early 2000s - and he was responsible for the Trevor and Mo story.
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Old 07-11-2016, 15:32
Damien_Johnson
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Good point made above about SOC probably getting criticism from 'twitter' because he axed a few 'popular' characters - rather than his stories or direction.

If he had kept on Ronnie, Roxy and Masood, would he be getting as much grief?
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