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DAB+ appears on Brighton Trial Mux


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Old 09-11-2016, 20:26
disrember
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both new and existing stations have gone DAB+

http://www.wohnort.org/DAB/ukloc.html#Brighton Mini

MiSoul 48 kbit/s DAB+
Radio Caroline 32 kbit/s DAB+
Resonance 64 kbit/s DAB+
Smile Sussex 48 kbit/s DAB+
Solar Radio 48 kbit/s DAB+
Trickster 48 kbit/s DAB+
URF 64 kbit/s DAB+
1 BRIGHTON FM 80 kbit/s Mono
Gaydio 80 kbit/s Mono
Juice 107.2 192 kbit/s Stereo
Radio Reverb 192 kbit/s Stereo

total 1088 (maybe room for more)

There's a possibility that both Gaydio and 1 BRiGHTON FM, may go DAB+ next year as they have both been awarded community FM licenses
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Old 09-11-2016, 20:55
tghe-retford
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Resonance 64 kbit/s DAB+
URF 64 kbit/s DAB+
64kbps DAB+ on a UK multiplex? Either a typo or it's happening!
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Old 09-11-2016, 20:59
disrember
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64kbps DAB+ on a UK multiplex? Either a typo or it's happening!
Yes just listened to both.. its happening.
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Old 09-11-2016, 23:34
oscar1
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Good to see another area with Radio Caroline included --- keep 'em coming .
Regards
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Old 10-11-2016, 12:48
Lengon
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both new and existing stations have gone DAB+

http://www.wohnort.org/DAB/ukloc.html#Brighton Mini

MiSoul 48 kbit/s DAB+
Radio Caroline 32 kbit/s DAB+
Resonance 64 kbit/s DAB+
Smile Sussex 48 kbit/s DAB+
Solar Radio 48 kbit/s DAB+
Trickster 48 kbit/s DAB+
URF 64 kbit/s DAB+
1 BRIGHTON FM 80 kbit/s Mono
Gaydio 80 kbit/s Mono
Juice 107.2 192 kbit/s Stereo
Radio Reverb 192 kbit/s Stereo

total 1088 (maybe room for more)

There's a possibility that both Gaydio and 1 BRiGHTON FM, may go DAB+ next year as they have both been awarded community FM licenses
Yes, another trial multiplex moving forward. Still nothing from London or the big boys.
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Old 10-11-2016, 13:15
Orangy
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Yes, another trial multiplex moving forward. Still nothing from London or the big boys.
I'd be surprised if much happened on the London Trial mux. It doesn't look like it will continue in it's current state, being broken up in to smaller regions of London instead of the semi-City-wide implementation now.

I'm hoping we start seeing (a minimum of 48k - wishful thinking) services in DAB+ on Now multiplexes as has already (just about) started on the MuxCo operations.

As an example from my neck of the woods, stations such as More Sussex probably can't afford a traditional DAB slot on Now Sussex, but they might possibly be able to afford say a 40k DAB+ slot. Their stations as a whole cover a fair bit of mid / South East Sussex so would not necessarily benefit from a single or couple of mini muxes.
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Old 10-11-2016, 13:19
Timanfaya
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Yes, another trial multiplex moving forward. Still nothing from London or the big boys.
Yes its odd that all London stations are 128kbps in classic DAB.
You'd think that if small new niche entrants could find an audience anywhere in the UK it would be the capital.

I wondered if it was because U.DAB were charging a premium 'London' price for carriage - but the fact that the stations on there are all in 128kbps stereo counters that.

Nice to see DAB+ growing elsewhere though incl in Brighton.
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Old 10-11-2016, 14:29
Tee Hee
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Yes its odd that all London stations are 128kbps in classic DAB.
You'd think that if small new niche entrants could find an audience anywhere in the UK it would be the capital.

I wondered if it was because U.DAB were charging a premium 'London' price for carriage - but the fact that the stations on there are all in 128kbps stereo counters that.

Nice to see DAB+ growing elsewhere though incl in Brighton.
I know people that want to get on the London small scale DAB multiplex but they just can't get any response out of U.DAB. Been waiting nearly a year now but nothing. Looks like the really progressive areas are Portsmouth, Birmingham and Manchester.
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Old 10-11-2016, 14:43
Timanfaya
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Agreed. Particularly impressed with Manchester.
They are clearly doing something right. Packed mux with plenty of variety from the ILR to the community stations and new players.
Guess that's a topic for another thread, however.
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Old 10-11-2016, 15:15
disrember
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Yes, another trial multiplex moving forward. Still nothing from London or the big boys.
I don't think anything will happen with the big boys or London, until the local radio rules have changed. There's space on D1 for global to launch its remaining stations nationally (and hopefully DAB+), but looks like they are holding back until changes have been agreed.
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Old 10-11-2016, 15:18
DigMorris
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64kbps DAB+ on a UK multiplex? Either a typo or it's happening!
Ridiculous isn't it? In many other European countries 64 kbit/s would be considered average or below par and 80 or 96 the norm. Not in the UK.

I have been thinking, if only one station had the guts (and the money) to boldly go with 96 kbit/s it would change the whole dynamic. It would make other music stations going out with 32 kbit/s look foolish.

Don't get me wrong, I like the option of lower bitrates. I can definitely see LBC or Test Match Special using 24 kbit/s. A music station, however...
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Old 10-11-2016, 17:40
Lengon
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I don't think anything will happen with the big boys or London, until the local radio rules have changed. There's space on D1 for global to launch its remaining stations nationally (and hopefully DAB+), but looks like they are holding back until changes have been agreed.
Thanks to Ofcom leaving matters to the market we've seen what others have called a race to the bottom in the technical quality of dab. We need more regulation not less.
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Old 10-11-2016, 18:05
tghe-retford
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Thanks to Ofcom leaving matters to the market we've seen what others have called a race to the bottom in the technical quality of dab. We need more regulation not less.
Maybe one for a new thread, but at the World DAB General Assembly in Vienna, the rules governing the new DAB+ multiplex in Slovenia was displayed for delegates:

https://twitter.com/TELEKO_DAB/statu...80562031390720

Minimum audio quality requirement of 48kbps using HE-AAC v2 and while it has only seven transmitters as a mandatory requirement (Slovenia is the size just slightly larger than South East England), its costs for a 64kbps DAB+ service would be approximately £16,000 a year.

The laiseez-faire, free market libertarian way that Ofcom has gone is not working. Sadly, it'll be unlikely we'll see any re-implementation of quality thresholds - if anything, more abolition of rules and requirements. When we have small scale DAB multiplexes moving forward with developments (remember, they still have cost concerns as the big boys do) that the BBC or the commercial sector hasn't, its a concerning development.

The fact that I made a big fuss out of a 64kbps DAB+ broadcast in the UK when DAB+ should be a good compromise between capacity costs and sound quality is concerning enough.
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Old 10-11-2016, 18:54
Lengon
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Maybe one for a new thread, but at the World DAB General Assembly in Vienna, the rules governing the new DAB+ multiplex in Slovenia was displayed for delegates:

https://twitter.com/TELEKO_DAB/statu...80562031390720

Minimum audio quality requirement of 48kbps using HE-AAC v2 and while it has only seven transmitters as a mandatory requirement (Slovenia is the size just slightly larger than South East England), its costs for a 64kbps DAB+ service would be approximately £16,000 a year.

The laiseez-faire, free market libertarian way that Ofcom has gone is not working. Sadly, it'll be unlikely we'll see any re-implementation of quality thresholds - if anything, more abolition of rules and requirements. When we have small scale DAB multiplexes moving forward with developments (remember, they still have cost concerns as the big boys do) that the BBC or the commercial sector hasn't, its a concerning development.

The fact that I made a big fuss out of a 64kbps DAB+ broadcast in the UK when DAB+ should be a good compromise between capacity costs and sound quality is concerning enough.
What you say is very interesting but I don't think the position is as gloomy as you believe. Muxco has already made some moves and whilst I have no inside knowledge I think the BBC, having been the pioneer of dab, will also. It's just a pity that Ofcom is unable to understand that when a small number of companies dominate a market standards have to be enforced.
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Old 10-11-2016, 19:10
Icaraa
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What you say is very interesting but I don't think the position is as gloomy as you believe. Muxco has already made some moves and whilst I have no inside knowledge I think the BBC, having been the pioneer of dab, will also. It's just a pity that Ofcom is unable to understand that when a small number of companies dominate a market standards have to be enforced.
I think MuxCo cocked up with DAB+. They set a precedent with 32kbps music stations that others have copied. It's too low if you ask me and it sounds pants.
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Old 10-11-2016, 19:29
Lengon
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I think MuxCo cocked up with DAB+. They set a precedent with 32kbps music stations that others have copied. It's too low if you ask me and it sounds pants.
I don't think that Muxco's short-term test on a local multiplex would have influenced other providers but that Sound Digital's 32kbps certainly did. I too think that Magic chilled and Fun Kids sound awful but that Jazz FM sounds pretty good though I know others disagree.
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Old 11-11-2016, 10:48
disrember
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I have to say the 64 kbit/s DAB+ is pretty decent sound. Unfortunately my dab+ dongal will not record dab+.

The 48kb is great, but trackstar station was down last night.

I will get to hear more tomorrow, as I work north of the city and the trail reception is wide along the coast, but not very deep.
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Old 27-12-2016, 09:05
disrember
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just an update... all stations on the mux are now DAB+ bar juice FM. Gaydio has changed to 64k AAC Dab+

https://twitter.com/disrember/status/813666294662922241
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Old 27-12-2016, 09:18
mfr
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If you're broadcasting in HE-AAC v2, is there much benefit in going beyond 48k? It is optimised for lower bitrates.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:04
hanssolo
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If you're broadcasting in HE-AAC v2, is there much benefit in going beyond 48k? It is optimised for lower bitrates.
Depends. The effects of 32k with SBR and parametric stereo can be reduced by carefully using loudness levels,filtering and a bit of processing.
http://www.radiomagonline.com/blogentry/1288
Using 64k means SBR can be used less to potentially provide a more natural sound above 13khz.
Anyone in Brighton who can do listening tests?

Interesting Juice (the mux operator) seems to be still using 192k standard DAB.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:19
hanssolo
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I know people that want to get on the London small scale DAB multiplex but they just can't get any response out of U.DAB. Been waiting nearly a year now but nothing. Looks like the really progressive areas are Portsmouth, Birmingham and Manchester.
The comnercial London 2 mux now has a DAB+ station, so might not be long before the London, Aldershot and Bristol minimuxs offers it?

Last edited by hanssolo : 27-12-2016 at 11:22. Reason: 3
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Old 27-12-2016, 12:29
tghe-retford
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Depends. The effects of 32k with SBR and parametric stereo can be reduced by carefully using loudness levels,filtering and a bit of processing.
http://www.radiomagonline.com/blogentry/1288
Using 64k means SBR can be used less to potentially provide a more natural sound above 13khz.
One thing to note is that a 48kbps bitrate for a DAB+ station =/= 48kbps audio bitrate. The audio bitrate = gross bitrate * 0.9 - PAD (1kbps in the UK).
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Old 27-12-2016, 13:47
disrember
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just spoken to my friend who is involved with the forthcoming launch of gaydio on FM in brighton and he said that the mux (bar juice) all went DAB+ due the mux owner. If they wanted to stay on DAB, they would have to pay extra. He was not sure the audio feed to the mux needs to be increased, as it the moment it sounds a bit metallic
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Old 27-12-2016, 14:22
vinnielo
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How do the bitrates look at present?
With a bit of luck I'll be down there later today to listen in.
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Old 27-12-2016, 14:31
hanssolo
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just spoken to my friend who is involved with the forthcoming launch of gaydio on FM in brighton and he said that the mux (bar juice) all went DAB+ due the mux owner. If they wanted to stay on DAB, they would have to pay extra. He was not sure the audio feed to the mux needs to be increased, as it the moment it sounds a bit metallic
The operator must be sorting out operating rates,depending on bandwidth used now it is effectively no longer a trial.

If the transmission at 64k sounds metallic perhaps either removing the SBR component (going from v2 to v1) or reducing loudness as Jazz FM did might inprove the sound?
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