As in my answer to unique, what happened with Punk in the late 70s and Madchester and the Seattle Scene that makes these music scenes reference points for dissent?
The OP might have mentioned the emergence of Hip Hop artists like Public Enemy and NWA as well.

People should have been angry in 2008 but there hasn't really been a music scene/movement which reflects this.

i haven't missed it. you have made an assumption, which appears to be to serve to create an unnecessary argument

i referred to the reasons in my earlier post. people have more to do to keep themselves occupied and satisfied than back then



i didn't say peole were happier either. you are adding in things that weren't said before. giving people things to do and be occupied will reduce the time people spend doing other things such as causing trouble

as for trump, why ask me? only about 25% of the american electorate voted for him, of which some will be female and not all white. so perhaps about 10% of the american population voted for him. ask the people you refer to why they are unhappy, as that's how i would obtain such information, not by asking someone else

seriously...... one of you make regular, informed, interesting posts that dont attract controversy, the other always seems to be embroiled in arguments they create by nit picking.

everyone knows which is which.

music wont get angry again, there wont be another punk/grunge style movement until there a will amongst a new generation to get behind one. its nothing to do with modern technology, i was around in the punk era, i know how frustrating it was tp find information or more importantly up to date information about what was happening in the scene.

if we had the internet back then, it would have served to stoke the movement, it would have fed our desire. the 'more options today' argument simply doesnt stack up, because we had options back then, and theres only so many options any one person can take on board.

certainly punk took off because of the will of a generation, although it was marginal at first, punk offered my generation an alternative to convention, a platform to express our opinion, a voice. i cannot see the spoon fed, mollycoddled, snowflake generation having the will to create their own such movement. they are too busy painting themselves orange... ORANGE FFS! and sponging off what we created in the first place.

I don't think it's any coincidence that "Revolution Radio" - Green Day's most recent album, released in October - is essentially a spiritual successor to that album.

It's been demonstrated in this thread and in the rap thread that plenty of musicians are angry. They just aren't part of a punk-style movement and maybe there are good reasons for that.

Punk was a movement empowering young people to make music on their own terms, DIY, without expensive equipment or wealthy record company support. We don't need another punk movement because today anyone can do the things that the punks fought to be able to do. If you want to hear righteous anger against prejudice and injustice, listen to some hiphop, people writing angry lyrics and producing themselves, releasing their music on their own terms just like the punks did.

Yes, but what stops this righteous anger turning into a movement? That was my point above, that punk in the late 70s and grunge in the early 90s are eras when you can say that there were youth movements which articulated a degree of dissent from the established order but that doesn't seem to be happening now.

Is it because the internet/web exists as an easy means of getting music out there but that it can accommodate individual dissent without it ever turning into a movement?

Social media has been used to organize flash mobs and political dissent. Hashtag protests have probably replaced listening to protest songs.

And anger takes different forms anyway.
Formation was pretty articulate without being overtly angry!
https://youtu.be/1ZDEX2ggvao

I don't know. In terms of articulating political dissent my first thought was that punk itself didn't do that, but the politicised elements of punk joined up with others in reggae and new wave acts to form Rock Against Racism. We used to go to gigs where Tom Robinson Band would play Glad To Be Gay etc and then a reggae band like Misty In Roots would play political reggae and a punk band like The Ruts would play Babylon's Burning... OK, I'm probably conflating several RAR gigs into one but that was the gist of it.

So no, I don't know where the cross-genre political movements are these days. I'm not involved with any of the Occupy-style groups but I wonder whether that's where the movements would be, and I'm not sure how they link up with today's music scenes.

Yeah, not all punk was overtly political but a great deal was. In Northern Ireland during the 70s/80, there was the contrast between the radicalism of Stiff Little Fingers and 'Alternative Ulster' as opposed to the working class escapism of the The Undertones.

I was briefly detained by the RUC after attending a Crass gig in central Belfast...that really was political and I was involved at a mini riot outside the Ulster Hall when Siouxsie and The Cure were playing. We were all disappointed when The Clash decided not to come to NI.

I was at Uni in England for three years so I also got exposed to Steel Pulse, Misty in Roots, Aswad. And then 2 Tone turned up.....the perfect combination of social commentary and dance music with The Specials, The Beat, The Selecter... it is difficult to imagine something like that again.

Indeed, Hip Hop music can be radical but I am a little dismayed at how often it gets disparaged on these threads.

no there arnt.... there are some, and its not getting the backing of a generation like (not only punk) but all past great genres did. and thats because theres no will to get behind something amongst the snowflakes, and thats the 'good reason' you mention.

i dont get the logic of "We don't need another punk movement because today anyone can do the things that the punks fought to be able to do" .... there is still plenty for the young to rail against, anything political, anything unjust, and especially against the music industry which is almost identical to how it was in 76... only worse.

Same here. I listen to music for entertainment and escapism and also as a soundtrack to my life. I tend to associate songs with certain places and people.

Indeed.

Early Adam & The Ants, as an example, was a considerable distance from the likes of Stand And Deliver.

In many ways New Romantics were the corporate, homogenised, commercially acceptable version of punk. Nice safe family entertainment and in the intervening 30+ years little has changed, as it amply demonstrated by the pipe and slippers friendly ...Later with Jools Holland.

As show that is as "cutting edge" as a blunt knife that has been wrapped in bubble wrap...

Give me the likes of Something Else any day of the week.

to a degree , yes, and its rather ironic that the real new romantics (the blitz kids) took punk ethos of 'do it yourself' to rail against the 'filth and the fury' of punk , turn it on its head, and create an arty form of music, style, fashion.

imho the 'new romantic' era ended in 81, when the human league scored a huge #1 and kraftwerks 'the model' followed shortly afterwards. pop by early 82 was hugely influenced by the new romantic movement, but the real new romantics had up and left. not wanting to be associated with the new commercial style that dominated the early - mid 80's.

Except that both punk and new romanticism were influenced by the fashion designs of Vivienne Westwood. Effectively she created first the punk look and then the pirate look and the fashion and music scenes followed. (source: Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivienne_Westwood)

Musically I preferred punk to new romanticism, and I think there was an arty side to it. The punk bands had their roots in the music I grew up with, as illustrated by Captain Sensible's playlist https://www.theguardian.com/music/mu...riley-and-more

He cites the Groundhogs, Soft Machine, Hendrix, Terry Riley and Mylene Farmer as influences. Have to admit I never listened to Mylene Farmer but the others were all big amongst music fans when I was at school.

except?....

i dont know about westwoods real part in all this. was she the originator or did she supply what the kids wanted? macclaren certainly facilitated punk, but he didnt create it so im not sure as to the real role westwood played... does anyone?