Seconded. He is excellent, etc. and he does showcase his partners.

I really think they are...dont ask me how but that's the impression I am getting. Not from the judges mind you but from TPTB

Nah, if anything they're pushing for whoever's perceived to be undermarked cos that's who the public tend to get behind (and the judges know this by now).

I mean, if the producers/judges want it that much, just give it to them or we'll have it for years to come. I can't be doing it with it for another year.

I think he usually comes out early at the start of the show. I always see him, front and center doing his silly kick. Stop it Kevin!

Is Karen Hardy not British? She won with Mark. Darren Bennet won with Jill.

I don't know about the judges, but the producers seem to have some kind of crush on him. After the last 2 years, I couldn't believe it when I saw he was dancing with Louise - on paper, the biggest ringer of them all, she was even a judge herself on SYTYCD! Not necessarily that he should have had a duffer, but maybe a Naga or even Laura type, rather than one of the most obvious contenders ever.

I think it all stems from the 'Kevin from Grimsby' thing in his first year, which has since become very old but people originally found quite amusing. I think the producers think that he is the most popular and likeable pro (not sure how true that is with the general public).

I find the marking and comments mysterious at times, but honestly don't think it's surname related. Drink related, possibly. Crush related, possibly. Senile moment related, possibly. I could go on. There's plenty to explain odd marking before you get to a surname.

I tend to assume that performances come over very differently live in the studio and on TV. Quieter performances are given more impact by the cameras and can come over as better to the audience at home than the judges. Bigger performances can be overmarked as the feeling of the moment makes them feel better than they are - as we frequently see on Len's lens.

I guess the judges and pro dancers (and presenters for that matter) know each other well by now. Kevin seems pretty popular with the whole gang. I expect some of the celebrities are easier to get along with and more fun than the others. Subconsciously that might affect the marks I suppose. We all find more excuses for the ones we like. Plenty of reasons to explain subjective marking other than the Clifton ones.

I think with these shows it's a case of the producers having different priorities to the viewers and using some of the tools at their disposal to 'push' things in one direction or another. Of course they can't be upfront about that but rather stick to promoting the illusion of complete fairness and impartiality.

For its part, the audience picks up on all this BUT paranoia can take over with the result that some individuals start to see every variable controlled by the producers as a weapon being used to force the outcome they don't want.

In a nutshell what I'm saying is, as an example, there's a big difference between a) the producers wanting to portray the contest as extremely close and b) the producers hating Danny and wanting him out.

I suspect the judges can see there is very little wrong with technique or musicality where Louise is concerned, as Kevin makes sure these things are sorted out.

It is very difficult to critique someone who is clearly very self conscious, particularly when what you are trying to get from her is that indefinable something extra. Something Rob Rinder & Ed have in spades.

Yes and I have no idea why. I remember the irritation and nitpicking by the judges from last year when the public didn't pick Kellie but Jay in the final, presumably it's a hang over from then.

But they can't manufacture a win, Loiuse is an on paper winner, but in practice despite the music, dress and technically some nice moves last night, that dance never really achieved the wow it should have, in fact non of her dances have.

They need to understand that people will vote for whom they want and if it's not Kevin, throwing praise or good partners at him year after year isn't going to make it happen.

Exactly. If the judges/producers wanted Kevin to win I think they would know by now that this isn't the way to do it. I'm not one to dismiss all conspiracy theories re producer manipulation, but I don't see what their motivation would be to push for a Clifton win. There's not much evidence that they're hugely popular and if they wanted to favour pros who are popular with the public they might have given Anton some better partners.

I don't really have a problem with most of Louise's scores (I've noticed overmarking more with people like Laura and Ore where I think it was more about keeping them safe) but I don't like the way they brought up her performance problems earlier in the series and are now acting like they're solved. She's a very neat technical dancer but she still seems very much in her comfort zone to me and it doesn't look like anyone is going to push her to give anything more now. I'm really surprised that someone who went to stage school is so inhibited.

Or Matt Cutler?

I tend to agree with you Monaogg in respect of Louise's earlier dances, but I thought she was great last night. I think it is a difficult balance to strike. One person's 'coming out of their shell' can be another person's 'hamming it up'. I thought last night she danced it well and acted it well whilst still keeping it classy and not giving it too much of the jazz hands.

However, I do think Len should have commented on the lack of foxtrot content, even though I enjoyed Kevin's choreography.

Personally I don't think the judges are too bothered about who wins. They've been doing this for too long. (I think they did care in the first few series, although they still wanted the best dancer to win, not a particular professional.)

I don't know about the judges, but the Production team seem keen for Kevin to win. His music choices are normally in his comfort zone.
He and Louise score well because he knows what the judges like and provides it. His choreography safe and predictable, he doesn't push his celeb too far, just far enough.

No, I don't think so. They just happen to be good

Ah, if it comes down to music choice then the production team must have now decided that they want a Judge Rinder win. I'll go and start a new thread!

(I don't like Big Spender very much but I do like a Foxtrot to a Frank Sinatra song!)

I do agree that there are some couples that continually get naff music.

I always thought the couples submitted a list of music choices and the team worked off that? I remember Brenda saying something like that.

Also I love that we all think the judges have agendas outside of "rock up, speak 20 minutes of overall gibberish and naffdance straight to the bank."

I remember when they announced Louise I thought "What a boring choice". Nothing in her earlier routines made me say "wow" but it would be unfair to say she didn't up her game in the last two weeks, I'm looking forward to see what they've got in the bag for next week.

I think he is a throughly nice young man. Brilliant choreographer , and appears to get on well with his partners and, can get the best out of them.Susanna Reid was no young woman, Louise is in her forties, Kellie wasn't that young. I would love to see him win but, he won't because the judges over praise him,public don't like that it seems. I saw the same thing with Zoe Ball. I really felt she should have won but, she was also the judges darling.

May be because last year there was a male winner. Not sure if it works like this. But maybe they want a female winner. However, for me a Claudia win would be better really.

Same age I think.

Exactly.

Danny and Oti seemed to imply something different on It Takes Two with Damny saying he argued with 'them' about their Argentine Tango music whilst Oti rolled her eyes in support. But I do agree, that has been said in the past - maybe things have changed again?

I think the can pro can submit a list of music they would like.
But the producers can and do ignore this list and give them other music chosen by production team.

I think your summary of judges' role is pretty accurate!