Please disregard my previous post (#151). It popped up while I was editing it. I cannot change it now.

A bullying cliche!? Are people actually saying this!
Brendan Cole was one of the earliest celebs to do this shouting out of "undermarked". The Cliftons were not the first Pros (or even celebs, as they've done it too) to shout this. Brendan and Anton Du Beke (as the older running Pros) have always been amongst the original Pros to mutter things rather loudly during score giving moments, and have not just whopped and hollered, but also shouted "undermarked' before. It could have even gone as far back as when Tess was still doing Claudia's job, though I'd think more after as Claudia made for a different atmosphere which allowed for a more party atmosphere. With Brendan & Anton as the longest serving Pros doing this, Pros of recent years have taken their leads and joined in.

This shouting out of "undermarked" is not new to this series of Strictly. It has been done before, and with the likes of Brendan usually being the loudest to say it. Why isn't anyone ticking off Brendan if they find it so unprofessional? Or is it just unprofessional if it's a Clifton!

What is the beef that some have for the Cliftons!? Are you Jordon fans, did you lose to them in a dance competition, did they run over your cat, what happened to create the view that those three can't do something but their fellow pros that do (and have before them) can. Janette is clearly supportive of Alijaz and has said before, outloud, that she supports him (and hence their partner in the process) and gushes over them if he (and his partner) do well well in routines or the process, so if that's allowed what's the issues with the Cliftons doing it. Did people care with other previous partners on the show showing support for their partners.

This ^. Clique it is.
Everything has its place and time. You can support each other as much as you can in the non-professional environment: home or even if you are in the audience. You can support your colleagues: it will show your open-mindedness and generosity, even though you are misbehaving. However, you should not demonstrate preferences for your family members if you are a professional in the professional environment.
Again, how James feels about Olia or Joanne about Kevin is totally understandable and normal. It is how they express their feelings that can be either professional or parochial and narrow-minded.

Miriam you're not getting this - Brendan is independent he isn't part of a group and so is Ali - unless he's shouting it about his own partner or Janette's I don't have an issue. Neither have any particular axe to grind. I have had issues with Brendan in the past over gripping about marks. I HATE people gripping about their marks (it's a reason why I never liked Christine Bleakley after week two when she did it) especially if I think they've been marked generously or in some cases over-generously.

However a lot of resentment comes to the Clifton's because they're a group, a power block, a cabal, a cliche and behavour like this does not help that resentment. They arent' just supporting other contestants, they are supporting other contestants they have a personal connection to the pro dancing with them. I can forgive someone like Daisy shouting it to support her mate but the others it looks like a group banding together to gang up on the judges. I don't understand why people can't understand what it at least LOOKS like even if they don't think that's the intention.

I hate this - people who throw bricks at my own favourites say 'well I'm not allowed to say anything negative without someone crying foul' but this isn't 'he dances like and he's rubbish'. It's about a group's behaviour. I think Jo's chereography has been great this year and I'm glad she's doing well but I don't like THIS and I retain the right to say so.

Are some of these posters for real?! What a load of sanctimonious, vitriolic drivel. Unbelievable!

I find it so hard to understand because I find it incredulous that anyone could have such a hyperbolic reaction about people supporting their family. You are vilifying them for supporting someone they love - what they did is no different to anyone standing up and cheering loudly after a family member does a performance or competition. I assume you've done that in the past? And of course that's beside the fact that both Jo and Karen have been known to shout "undermarked" for people other than Kevin as well, as have many others, and others besides them have supported Kevin too.

Frankly I think it's offensive and entirely unjustified that you're labelling them bullies based on one single word shouted one single time for someone who is close family. It's a gross overreaction at something that has happened before, will happen again and is neither breaking any of the rules of Strictly nor preventing them giving a shedload of support to anyone else as well, which was evident by their clapping and cheering for others (Jo was at the front of the balcony watching the dancefloor most of the night). They're humans, not robots, they don't have to react the same way to everyone, and I don't understand why people are failing to grasp this.

Meh....exactly who are they meant to be bullying? The judges aren't going to be thinking to themselves 'OooOoo I'd better be giving louise higher marks, otherwise jo and Karen are going to shout at me from the auditorium'
Pfft

I really enjoy the off the wall nature of upstairs in the Clauditorium...its a bit bonkers and a fun release for the performers after the formalities and stress of downstairs on the dancefloor. I must admit, I must be so enjoying having a laugh at the antics up there, I don't even realise who is shouting "undermarked". But even that made me laugh the first time I heard it the other week from Brendan. Joanne supporting her bro doesnt bother me at all considering how they take the mickey so much and get plenty of sibling rivalry digs in at each other when theyre on ITT with Zoe.

I'm thinking people now looking for reasons to be offended by Karen, Jo and Kevin, and making their favourites of the season opressed victims of mean Clifton bullies. Even if the reasons have to be invented and made up. Unbelievable!

Ok maybe I over stated it and used an emotive word but the difference is I'm not competing in the same competition and the Cliftons are that bit more visible than the average friends and family would be. I'm trying to think of a word that covers it because although it's natural to support f&f there's a difference between cheering them on which happens a lot in Claud 9 or at engaging in behaviour that could be seen as at least an attempt to sway the judges.

Possibly I am over-reacting but the Cliftons are in a different position to most friends and family supporters and it's smacked of using the power of being a group to make their opinion known and very clearly known and since some thought Louise was over-marked it's not going to win them friends. It's also insensitive to Danny who'd obviously had a tough week. I agree with Monkseal when he says that them saying Louise was under-marked doesn't imply that they thought Danny was over-marked but it still an attempt to devalue his position over all. Like it or not they are a lot more visible than most family and friends and that means they ought to be a bit more careful in how they behave because of that. I know I used an emotive word a tad inappropriately but I think sometimes with a group there is a potential for them to have too much power and influence unless they are checked and it's a situation that can led to bullying. The Cliftons aren't bullies but like it or not they are a cabal and they behaved like one and that's potential problematic or at least profoundly unattractive. I saw something in them all trying to use their sway to try and push things their own way and I don't see why people don't see how it could at least be perceived that way.

How can it be an attempt to sway the judges if anyone says "undermarked" AFTER the judges have made their decision and awarded their scores?

To stop them 'repeating' their 'mistake' perhaps? I don't know maybe I'm over-reacting and perhaps it's a bit hard to put into words but I don't like the idea of a group acting as a mob and voicing an opinion as a group that many wouldn't agree with. It's not helpful when there are already suspicions of the production team pushing for a Louise win along with the judges and it's something that might not exactly make those outside of the cabal feel the most secure. It's clear that some pros who aren't in SCD anymore had a problem with the Cliftons and behaving like a mob will not help them ultimately it can only cause more resentment - ok bullies was too strong and it's make them look a bunch of queen bees - a bit like the group of the popular kids in a US high school film who want and expect their own way. It'll do nothing to silence the voices who think they have too much influence and favour within SCD.

I can't see anything that resembles or even suggests "mob" behaviour. Even if the production team WERE pushing for a Louise win - which I am not seeing either - isn't the ultimate winner decided by the public vote and not by the judges... or are you suggesting that there may also be vote-rigging involved too?

Who are the pros who had a problem with the Cliftons? Do you mean Ola Jordan? - the very same Ola Jordan who actually won the contest with Chris Hollins? Or do you mean her husband, James Jordan who was dropped from the show - apparently for letting his overactive mouth run away with him once too often - and never seems to have been able to get over it but has tried to build a secondary career from bitching about it on social media? Sour grapes perhaps? As far as I can tell, Kevin, Karen and Joanne seem to be well-liked among their current professional colleagues and the celeb contestants. Perhaps you know differently?

Unless I have my facts wrong, none of the Clifton partnerships have won the trophy thus far, so I fail to see why there should be any suggestion of influence or favour - nor any grounds for resentment from any of their co-professionals.

Totally agree with this - it was a great score and the judges were entirely complimentary

It's just a show that thrives on controversy. No one would say anything to them about what we've so far seen in the Clauditorium. It's all part of the "SHOW!"

Today in the Mail there's more photos of "still there" Ed and a glum looking Janette behind Aljaz and Daisy talking to Claudia.

"It's all going to the BBC's well rehearsed plan."

What influence and favour do they have within Strictly. None of them have won the series. So there goes their influence out of the window.

You and few others are looking for drama where there is none. Creating 'Cliftons are Strictly bullies' posts is making this forum look insane.

I don't think it's deliberate on their part possibly carried away but I don't like a group commenting on the judge's scores and roping everyone else into joining them. I can appreciate others see it differently.

Ailona also seems to have issues with team Clifton and obviously thinks that the production team is angling for a Louise win and some of the judging and music choices and what dancing she gets seems to very slated in her favour from where I'm sitting.

I don't think they're doing it deliberately and can appreciate they got carried away. It's however a big bug bear with me people gripping about marks and it's a writ large of a cabal do it however understandable the reasons are on the grounds of family loyalty. I suppose perhaps on oversensitive in that I've seen the harm that 'tribal' loyalty can cause on line and my brother was harassed borderline bullied by a group of girls at our school and I've had incidents that were borderline bullying by a group on my school bus too. I also think that it doesn't make the Cliftons look good because other people hate the idea of a group being too influential within SCD and I'm not the only one here saying they were out of line. I think it is disrespectful to other contestants and the judges and could create a climate where everyone else feels part of an out group. It would be better if we saw them support someone else outside of their group occasionally.

Will it stop my vote for Ore - if I feel it's necessary or appropriate? no. I was probably never going to vote for Louise anyway so it won't have any influence there. However at least I'm trying to make the point of why it's got backs up and why I think that it isn't unjustified and why I think this sort of thing won't help either the Cliftons or the show in the long run.

I can scarcely believe that you are drawing in ancedotal accounts of bullying of your brother and yourself (for which you have my utmost sympathy, by the way) and ascribing those behaviours to Kevin, Joanne and Karen Clifton because they have family ties to each other.

Frankly this merely convinces me that I ought to say no more to you on this matter because quite evidently there is no prospect of being able to persuade you to see how utterly bizarre and wildly inappropriate your comments have become.

So, I'm not going to respond to any more of your comments on this because I'm afraid you are wildly out of touch with reality. I won't be drawn into further discussion with someone who is so happy to bandy suggestions of bullying around so freely and inappropriately.

I think the issue here is only Joanne and Karen (possibly Ore) were shouting 'undermarked'. If it was two random pros with no ties to Louise and Kevin - such as Brendan and Aljaz - or if other pros joined in (I'll be prepared to apologise and backtrack on this but I don't think anyone else did) then it would be nowhere near as problematic for some; at least not when it comes to pointing the finger at the Clifton's.

As it is only those related to Kevin (possibly Ore) shouted out. Yelling that 37/40 is under marked is slightly silly in the first place but it's understandable that, in some people's minds, it created a 'them and us' feel about the Clauditorium.

I think someone said Daisy was also chanting it? Though it seems a bit harsh to hang Ore on a possibly. Or Daisy on I think someone. Hell, I'm opposed to all public lynchings or state capital punishment. Free the Clifton Two!

Where can we get legal representation quickly?

Hahaha, excellent!

Seriously now, people who think the Cliftons are bullies are either very sensitive and have a sheltered life or never experienced what really is to be bullied. Cliquey they might be, but never bullies.

Stop being so melodramatic with the hanging. I'm just saying why some were rubbed up the wrong way by what happened.

I will apologise for doing that because you're right on that just for the record and although I will acknowledge it may be my fault. I was trying to illustrate why I find a clique behaving that way distasteful shall we say. I find it a little frustrating that you won't even admit that they might be even slightly at fault or at least have done themselves no favours. It's a world of difference between that wasn't helpful to they're bad bad people and should be kicked off the show. I think they are all assets to the show I just think that someone should have a quiet word and tell them not to do that again.

Thank you that's I suppose what I was trying to say.

On the other hand, this would be great music for a paso or something with attitude...

https://youtu.be/GN52vq7xmas

Has it ever been used? Rinder could do this