People don't have in or out of tune vocies. They have intonation which is all about the accuracy with which they phonate on the note (as hitting a note has a bandwitdth, it's not a single figure). So if someone has bad intonation it can, for trained ears, sound off. As for him, his intonation isn't too bad. I would never vote for him because I don't see him as having a career after the X Factor. He was in tune because he was given a song that was in the right key for him and that was fairly easy to sing.

Sam on the other hand, while she is really good at pushing out some really dynamic vocals with big belts struggles a lot with intonation and is sometimes completely out of key. Sam was out of tune quite a lot unfortunately. Massive respect for her taking on such a massive song but it was bit too big for her.

He was in tune before the sing off and there was zero evidence of pitch correction at any level. Again, the evidence for a massive conspiracy is limited to non-existent.

I understand the psychology of it: The X Factor is a show which is generally thought of as low brow so people like to feel that they're better than the show when they watch it. By claiming that one 'sees through the lines' as it were, people get to claim that they are watching it ironically or analytically. I prefer just to say that it has some great acts sometimes, it's shit sometimes and the stories can be contrived but I still watch it so it must be doing something right or maybe there's something wrong with me for watching it. I don't really integrate my ego with the show.

As somebody who studied psychology, I find it amusing that you're trying to imply there is some kind of pathology behind people claiming that auto-tune or other effects are being used. It would be the same if people implied that you are disputing the accusations because you are in denial or delusional. By the way, they have admitted to using pitch correction in the past on the pre-recorded footage and so it's not outside the realms of possibility they would try it on the live shows.

Splitting hairs old bean, some people have pitch issues, which has nothing to do with tone. Sam fro example has an interesting voice but in the sing off missed about 50% of the notes.

Firstly I'm not about to sit here and go through all the vocal effects, such as reverb, chorus and delay, just so you can tell me I'm wrong. Secondly I'm not an armchair pundit I'm a musician and my wife is a singer. Finally as I have connections to the supply of musical instruments and the various things that go along with them, I have to inform you that one of the busy markets at the moment is - der, der! - portable vocal effects! So that being the case why are you insisting that a professional production like the X Factor doesn't use them. Yea that's what I thought you can't answer that.

Oh and while we are there compression has been commonly used since the 1950's and was originally discovered when someone realised that radio valves removed distortion and levelled the signal. That's a bit different to processing.

Make your mind up. Anyway, Ryan's voice sounded flat in other live shows and yet strangely his voice wasn't as flat in Sunday's show.

I honestly don't know why virtuoso is arguing about this. The only time when the contestants sing is in the sing off. The rest of the time its smoke and mirrors.

Haha this is an embarrassing oversight. Let's be clear, your voice per se cannot be in its nature in or out of tune. You evaluate tuning as one performs a track. His performance was in tune. Try reading the post again, it will help you understand.


I would tell you it's wrong because you are. They're clean vocals. I discuss compression because I'm trying figure out precisely what you mean by 'processed'. I agree, they'll use professional production. But what 'processing' do you refer to? What level of 'processing' is appropriate for a vocal performance in order for it to be deemed artistically merit-worthy? Anyone can say 'that's processed' but you have to unpackage that. It's like when people say AutoTune is used when 9/10 times they mean minimal pitch correction which is used to correct intonation, rather than adjust the actual note using MIDI conversion.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

It's a lpsync show, just look at saraaa/saaara and Ryan. And 5am (&honey) has backing vocals all all trough their show

What evidence is there that anyone mimed except for Ryan during that one moment when he climbed up mimed?

The pitch he sang at wasn't as good as it should have been. He might have a good career after the tour finishes with loads of teenage lasses going to his concerts. I suppose it depends if teenage lasses out there will take to him like they did with One Direction.

I mean he was (mostly) in key for both performances. But, as we all know, pitch isn't the only thing you look for in a singer. You want tone, style, rhythym and something to keep you interested. Unfortunately for Ryan, I just don't think there's anything about his voice that would interest me as a listener. I also think his technique meant that he was straining a lot. As you say, though, there may be plenty out there who love it.

I think Sam's voice was more interesting in terms of her timbre but I believe she should have gone over Ryan because she was off key a lot. The very least you need to be as a singer is in key. If you you're off key, it doesn't matter if your voice is interesting, it will still sound bad to listeners that can discern pitch.

Still I hope she does well. She was good before the live shows, so it may be that she just had songs that didn't suit her style/rang etc or maybe it was just the nerves of the live shows that got her.

I'm not wrong, and unless you can top my forty years on the subject I suggest you stop arguing with me.

........ but to answer your question, in a televised singing completion there will always be some level of processing required for broadcast. However the public should still be in a position to evaluate the singers abilities. That has seldom happened on the X Factor for at least the last three years. The only time it comes close is in the sing off. That is the reason why I prefer the voice, because you hear the singer and not the BT, BV and any other crap they decide to fling at it to cover up the fact that most of the contestants are not very good.

The only person who should be embarrassed is you for arguing the toss.

Ryan wasn't at the right tone either. Perhaps with some vocal coaching after the show he might improve.

Intonation refers to pitch - not tone.

At least you know what these terms mean


. Again, you haven't mentioned any processing whatsoever, no evidence just arguments from a putative authority where you claim to have 40 years of exprience. I'll admit that's 14 years more than I've been alive, but I've been cutting vocals and gone through training for long enough to know my stuff. Good for you though .

........ and while that is true, and you are right, and I should not try to answer too many contentions at once - this thread was not about intonation. Just so you know what it is I heave just serviced one of my guitars which resulted in a tweak of the intonation at the bridge.

Try listening to the vocal with someone who has used fx particularly in the studio. It's not as black and white as you think, but still makes a difference to the overall sound. I'm guessing that you are expecting to get hit in the face with it.

They were correcting a statement that you made. I mentioned intonation because pitch correction is used for that.


Having cut vocals, yes there is a different between vocals with/without EQing (huge difference) and other production. But any live performance, whether it's One Direction or Radiohead they will use production. The vocals are no more edited or 'processed' (pedestrian term) than any other live vocal you see on TV.

I know the show is heavily manipulated but the acts definitely don't mime. They are sometimes drowned out by the taped backing vocals in the choruses though - particularly the groups. 4 Of Diamonds got A LOT of help this year. But they are singing along with the track. Their sound engineer must be one of the best in the business though - I'm always impressed with the overall sound mix.

I'm not arguing that point, and the correction to my comment was based on a my response to another fm. I know that nothing these days goes out without a tweak or two, and very often doesn't go out live. You keep talking about EQ, it is something that has been used for donkeys years and I don't consider it in the same league as some of the deliberate attempts to mask bad vocals. Hell we would all be stuffed if we couldn't do a little bit of manipulation to our tone.

I refer to my comment earlier about broadcasting and the Voice, and this is a singing program and we should hear the singers.

That's an overdubbed vocal, sung in a studio later on. It is impossible for his vocals to sound the way they do if they were recorded live from the mic in that room. The amount of compression on his voice means you would get a LOT of room noise coming through. Also, there is definitely plenty of tuning on his voice. You can tell it's been recorded in a vocal booth at a later date.

They did this for most of the 'good' room auditions this series. As well as for some of Boot Camp, 6 Chair and JH. Why the producers decided to go down this route, I don't know. But they will be happy that they've fooled 90% of viewers, I guess, so it was a successful approach...

So you're saying you've produced music and you think acts miming is just conspiracy? There have been times where it would have been impossible for 5am or Ryan to be singing eg closed mouth just for a second here and there and vocals continue on strong.

Haha you're quite funny. I am well aware of what it is - it's you that misunderstood the use of the term but it's ok. I understand you're trying to cover up.

It is strange that you say the thread is not about intonation, when 'autotune' is part of the title.

And as to what the thread is about, well, it could have been an interesting and informative discussion between the techy FMs about the sound production of the music in the live shows - but instead it it just a bit of handbags about who is the more knowledgeable. That is a shame, because if there is no consensus between those supposedly 'in the know' due to years of experience, it is clearly a grey area and the average FM can gain no insight from the self-proclaimed professionals.

...... and another thread ends in, "your stupid and don't know what your talking about, QED you have no right to post an objective opinion about one of my favs".

Your not the slightest bit funny and a shade condescending. I'm not a self proclaimed professional I believe that honour goes to you.