|
||||||||
DW under Chibnall could see a return to the Tennant style & format |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#51 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 413
|
Quote:
I feel that, for Chibnall's first series, a complete relaunch is needed. Changing the showrunner isn't a selling point for the majority of viewers, only us lot really get excited by that kind of thing. I doubt most people who watch the show even know what Steven Moffat looks like.
They can update the logo, the title sequence and build a brand new TARDIS set, but if Capaldi is still at the front and centre of marketing, don't expect to go into any ratings thread and see a major boost for Chibnall's opening story. It'll just be a normal Doctor Who number. If the execs are serious about rebooting everything, I expect that really does mean everything. I wanted to see a long-running Doctor stick around with a new team because we haven't had that in NuWho yet, but I just don't think the show is in a strong enough position right now for that to be viable. Or... Series 10 could totally rejuvenate the brand and this entire discussion will have been for nothing ![]() Who knows. That won't happen.
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#52 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,078
|
Quote:
I feel that, for Chibnall's first series, a complete relaunch is needed. Changing the showrunner isn't a selling point for the majority of viewers, only us lot really get excited by that kind of thing. I doubt most people who watch the show even know what Steven Moffat looks like.
They can update the logo, the title sequence and build a brand new TARDIS set, but if Capaldi is still at the front and centre of marketing, don't expect to go into any ratings thread and see a major boost for Chibnall's opening story. It'll just be a normal Doctor Who number. If the execs are serious about rebooting everything, I expect that really does mean everything. I wanted to see a long-running Doctor stick around with a new team because we haven't had that in NuWho yet, but I just don't think the show is in a strong enough position right now for that to be viable. Or... Series 10 could totally rejuvenate the brand and this entire discussion will have been for nothing ![]() Who knows. ![]() Well, we'll only know in retrospect but it's an interesting debate. A complete change being good is obviously assuming that Series 11 will be great and the new Doctor and companion are a success. (Can't q believe I'm writing that as we're still a few months away from Pearl making her proper debut!!) Time will tell. It always does. And good point about a lot of viewers probably not knowing or really caring about who is 'behind the scenes'. Quite right too. I've mentioned Season 7 and Series 5 above and they're 2 of my all-time favourite series of Who, so it certainly can work....for me, anyway. |
|
|
|
|
|
#53 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,087
|
Quote:
For me, all this talk of gradual evolution is part of the problem. It's got to be a big change to grab the attention
The show is dying on its arse and needs rebooting. The message to the public needs to be, "Try the NEW Doctor Who - It's completely different and no longer has anything you didn't like from before". Just like the 2002 re-boot of Top Gear after the previous (and very stale) series. There's no point telling those who have abandoned the show that it's no longer the same-old-same-old because... there's a new Tardis set, new titles (yet again) and the Doctor now wears a blue coat and has a sonic earring & plays the bagpipes instead of sonic glasses & an electric guitar. The reason RTD's show was capable of change between each series was precisely its success and the love felt for it by a wider audience. The show was bigger than its cast - even Eccleston and Piper. A show that isn't loved and is being abandoned culturally as well as in print, online, TV and merchandising needs to cut out all dead wood and be extensively renovated like a crumbling 80s Hoxton house that got gutted before receiving underpinning, a new roof and contemporary decor before more successful occupants would move in. |
|
|
|
|
|
#54 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 56
|
I don't think the show is 'dying on it's arse'- It has certainly drifted from the mainstream public consciousness and is no longer water-cooler TV but no show in television history has ever sustained that. This is just a fact. And some go from headline news to page 7 a hell of a lot quicker than New Who has (Broadchurch to name but one).
But that said it should and indeed MUST have a massive reboot again when Chibnall steps in. It needs to be much like what happened with RTD- Moffat. Not only for the sake of keeping the show fresh and re-igniting pubic interest but also because it's not fair on CC to be left with any baggage. New Tardis. New titles. New theme. New companion. New Doctor. New everything. And I say that as someone who personally speaking would happily see Moffat run the show for the next 30 years. I worry due to BBC purse strings being drawn ever tighter that this won't happen though. |
|
|
|
|
|
#55 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,295
|
But what is the "RTD's Style" What make it RTDish? I think only us fans will think of it as imitating the "RTD" Style of writing, Casual veiwers will just see it all the same, they'll feel that something is different but they wouldn't read too much into it
I don't want him to imitate the RTD Style he should go with the style hes natural with the Chibnall style. But one thing the show should do is go back to basics. I think we should go back to the "Come With Me! We can go anywhere, anytime, anyplace." sort of thing and we should go back to centering the show on the companion rather than the Doctor, as for me it immerses me more. I think the show is focusing on the Time Lords too much, what I liked about other series' is how they'll give us the slightest of information and then hold back, like when we first heard about the Time War in Series 1. |
|
|
|
|
|
#56 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,392
|
Quote:
Did you tap your nose when you wrote that last line?
![]() Well, we'll only know in retrospect but it's an interesting debate. A complete change being good is obviously assuming that Series 11 will be great and the new Doctor and companion are a success. (Can't q believe I'm writing that as we're still a few months away from Pearl making her proper debut!!) Time will tell. It always does. And good point about a lot of viewers probably not knowing or really caring about who is 'behind the scenes'. Quite right too. I've mentioned Season 7 and Series 5 above and they're 2 of my all-time favourite series of Who, so it certainly can work....for me, anyway. ![]() It is strange to be talking about it now, I feel disrespectful to Peter and Pearl in a way haha. Everyone is so caught up in the future that the current era is almost completely overlooked, which is a shame. Hopefully that will be fixed with a cracking S10. |
|
|
|
|
|
#57 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,295
|
Quote:
Of course! It's impossible not to
![]() It is strange to be talking about it now, I feel disrespectful to Peter and Pearl in a way haha. Everyone is so caught up in the future that the current era is almost completely overlooked, which is a shame. Hopefully that will be fixed with a cracking S10.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#58 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 56
|
Quote:
Of course! It's impossible not to
![]() It is strange to be talking about it now, I feel disrespectful to Peter and Pearl in a way haha. Everyone is so caught up in the future that the current era is almost completely overlooked, which is a shame. Hopefully that will be fixed with a cracking S10. But the sad truth is many people have been waiting over half a decade to call the last rites on this era of the show so they're chucking their handful of dirt on the coffin and singing their hymns before it's even dead. Very disrespectful indeed to a great team of writers and producers and some fantastic actors and a show-runner who, much like RTD, has given his life to the show. That's 'fans' for you though. Did anyone expect the more extreme margins of the fandom to let it go gracefully? Not a chance. They'll be dancing on the grave and rubbing it in peoples faces all next year and then they'll pretend to like Chibnall to save face before bringing out the pitchforks for him as well. I would nae call them fans. The word I would call them might well get me banned so I'll leave it up to your imaginations. Mark my words- Chibnall will get two seasons at most and then its back on hiatus for at least 5 years. FACT. |
|
|
|
|
|
#59 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 10,236
|
The Mirror article is believable, but whether or not it's true is an entirely different story.
I must admit, I do quite like the idea of a clean slate. It's a pity Pearl Mackie will only get a single series if that ends up being the case and I'll be very sad to see Capaldi go (I just keep liking him more and more with every episode), but I think a clean slate every once in a while to completely reinvigorate the show is a good thing. What I'm more concerned about is the idea that the BBC want the show to be more like the Tennant era. That sounds more like regression and trying to recapture past glory rather than looking to the future like the show should. Anyway, I'll remain sceptical of the Mirror story until we have something concrete about what's going to happen in 2018 and beyond. |
|
|
|
|
|
#60 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,355
|
Quote:
It is rather peculiar that some people are already overlooking the fact that we have an entire season still to come with brand new companions and an absolutely fantastic Doctor.
But the sad truth is many people have been waiting over half a decade to call the last rites on this era of the show so they're chucking their handful of dirt on the coffin and singing their hymns before it's even dead. Very disrespectful indeed to a great team of writers and producers and some fantastic actors and a show-runner who, much like RTD, has given his life to the show. That's 'fans' for you though. Did anyone expect the more extreme margins of the fandom to let it go gracefully? Not a chance. They'll be dancing on the grave and rubbing it in peoples faces all next year and then they'll pretend to like Chibnall to save face before bringing out the pitchforks for him as well. I would nae call them fans. The word I would call them might well get me banned so I'll leave it up to your imaginations. Mark my words- Chibnall will get two seasons at most and then its back on hiatus for at least 5 years. FACT. Also, by wishing the Chibnall era to fail, your no better than those who do the same for Moffats time, so if they means that to you they aren't real fans, then this comment would seem to suggest, by your own logic, that neither are you. All I see here is someone who enjoys Moffats time getting annoyed just because those who haven't enjoyed his time are happy that it is coming to an end. |
|
|
|
|
|
#61 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 695
|
Quote:
The Mirror article is believable, but whether or not it's true is an entirely different story.
I must admit, I do quite like the idea of a clean slate. It's a pity Pearl Mackie will only get a single series if that ends up being the case and I'll be very sad to see Capaldi go (I just keep liking him more and more with every episode), but I think a clean slate every once in a while to completely reinvigorate the show is a good thing. What I'm more concerned about is the idea that the BBC want the show to be more like the Tennant era. That sounds more like regression and trying to recapture past glory rather than looking to the future like the show should. Anyway, I'll remain sceptical of the Mirror story until we have something concrete about what's going to happen in 2018 and beyond. |
|
|
|
|
|
#62 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,295
|
Quote:
It is rather peculiar that some people are already overlooking the fact that we have an entire season still to come with brand new companions and an absolutely fantastic Doctor.
But the sad truth is many people have been waiting over half a decade to call the last rites on this era of the show so they're chucking their handful of dirt on the coffin and singing their hymns before it's even dead. Very disrespectful indeed to a great team of writers and producers and some fantastic actors and a show-runner who, much like RTD, has given his life to the show. That's 'fans' for you though. Did anyone expect the more extreme margins of the fandom to let it go gracefully? Not a chance. They'll be dancing on the grave and rubbing it in peoples faces all next year and then they'll pretend to like Chibnall to save face before bringing out the pitchforks for him as well. I would nae call them fans. The word I would call them might well get me banned so I'll leave it up to your imaginations. Mark my words- Chibnall will get two seasons at most and then its back on hiatus for at least 5 years. FACT. |
|
|
|
|
|
#63 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 56
|
Quote:
You don't seem to know the difference between fact and your opinion.
Also, by wishing the Chibnall era to fail, your no better than those who do the same for Moffats time, so if they means that to you they aren't real fans, then this comment would seem to suggest, by your own logic, that neither are you. All I see here is someone who enjoys Moffats time getting annoyed just because those who haven't enjoyed his time are happy that it is coming to an end. However I do personally think it will be the case. No I am not saying this to cast any doubt on whether Chibnall's era will be good or not. I have my suspicions on that front but I would prefer to wait and see. I just think any show has its time and this isn't necessarily down to the quality of whats on screen, The general viewing public are a fickle bunch and in many ways this era of DW has lasted way longer than many ever dreamed. Both RTD and Moffat have said as much. Unless they start using gimmicks or stunt casting or casting a major 'name' for the next era I get the feeling it's reaching a natural end for at least the time being and maybe could do with a rest. Look at the reality of modern television. Even shows like Game of Thrones have an ending in sight. And others like The Walking Dead which I love are losing viewers. Because they all have their 'moment'. This is not soap opera and nor should it be. Considering how many years we suffered with no Doctor Who I find it oddly complacent that some fans think it is just a given that it's going to just go on indefinitely. It won't. Especially not in the current climate. Good luck if you think Chibnall is going to herald an era of 10 million overnight viewers and awards galore. I hope he does, as long as what he is writing is good. But its very unlikely. And no. I understand if you are fed up with Moffats very distinctive era then you are likely to welcome his departure. But considering he is 13 months away from an exit then perhaps it would be nice to pipe down and bite your tongue until that sacred day when you can finally bid him farewell. But be careful what you wish for, That's all I'm saying. |
|
|
|
|
|
#64 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London or Valencia
Posts: 5,732
|
Quote:
Quite. The people wanting a slow transition appear to be the biggest fans of Moffat - the current era. They don't want change so their plan-B is to wish any inevitable change (Moffat IS leaving) to be as slow as possible.
I'm hardly the biggest Moffat supporter or advocate myself. I think I consider what I like, and what I think Moffat has done well, as well as what he's done poorly. There's a lot of both. I really, really enjoyed Series 9 - my favourite Moffat-era series without a doubt - but I am also a big advocate of a change of tone. I certainly don't want another series like the ninth right now, and a new companion as well as a few new writers as well as the promise of Moffat leaving at the end of the next series are collectively a lot of acts of change. Changes which the viewer will see...it's more about how you enact these changes, not about how headline-grabbing they are. Quote:
The show is dying on its arse and needs rebooting
Now by the admission of people calling for a reboot of sorts, the mainstream viewer doesn't see the showrunner and so it takes new leads who are the face of the show to really reinvigorate it. Series 8 saw a new Doctor, a companion who had only done half a series at that point. And yet its viewer share was no larger than Asylum of the Daleks a series earlier, and was significantly lower than The Impossible Astronaut the series before that. In other words, the numbers don't lie - there has been a gradual decline in the viewer share for years - since way before Peter Capaldi was involved. The only decline seen in his era conveniently correlates perfectly with a shift to late broadcasts. Beyond that his era has declined no more erroneously than those from before, and that's without factoring in the growing prominence of online and international viewership. Hey, maybe it is a bit like Brexit. Frustration aimed at the wrong target, thanks to baseless claims and misinformation (or a lack of information). Seriously, I need that roll-eyes emoji! Quote:
New Tardis. New titles. New theme. New companion. New Doctor. New everything. And I say that as someone who personally speaking would happily see Moffat run the show for the next 30 years. I worry due to BBC purse strings being drawn ever tighter that this won't happen though.
I look forward to what Chibnall will bring to the show in spite of not particularly liking his stuff (Who, Torchwood mostly, or otherwise) and Moffat's definitely been in the position for more than long enough - having brought a lot of good and a bit of bad to the whole thing along the way. I just don't think you need an abrupt overdose of new... screw it up and you'll not only stand to lose the interest of mainstream viewers for a long time, but also the fans who stuck by with whatever you were dishing out before. Take time and care and patience - don't throw everything at a new series with a new showrunner in the hope that everything will stick. Quote:
But one thing the show should do is go back to basics. I think we should go back to the "Come With Me! We can go anywhere, anytime, anyplace." sort of thing and we should go back to centering the show on the companion rather than the Doctor, as for me it immerses me more. I think the show is focusing on the Time Lords too much, what I liked about other series' is how they'll give us the slightest of information and then hold back, like when we first heard about the Time War in Series 1.
I look forward to a back-to-basics approach in the sense that it should be about the stories of the Doctor, not the story of the Doctor. By all means have complex stories along the way, but I feel the latter years of RTD's era, and the first few of Moffat's captured a wider sense of universal exploration, and more varied Earth stories as well. Some restraint would be good in some respects, and these are the kinds of changes I think draw viewers in... a lot more than simply changing the Doctor and hoping for the best because doing so says 'fresh start'. |
|
|
|
|
#65 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 695
|
Quote:
This I agree with. Change is all well and good, but it has to be felt - not commanded. Simply changing the Doctor isn't any good if the writer can't write a decent Doctor regardless - sure it gets you some headlines, some quick exposure, but if it can't be handled competently then that interest will fade fast and so too will any interest in more headlines about changes in future.
I look forward to a back-to-basics approach in the sense that it should be about the stories of the Doctor, not the story of the Doctor. By all means have complex stories along the way, but I feel the latter years of RTD's era, and the first few of Moffat's captured a wider sense of universal exploration, and more varied Earth stories as well. Some restraint would be good in some respects, and these are the kinds of changes I think draw viewers in... a lot more than simply changing the Doctor and hoping for the best because doing so says 'fresh start'. A common complaint of Moffat's era is his meddling into the past of the show and changing important aspects of it. This is then accompanied with convoluted story arcs which the casual viewer will struggle to understand and some angry fans for doing this. Just get back to the basics of the show, that said i did think S9 was an improvement except for the Hybrid nonsense. |
|
|
|
|
|
#66 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,830
|
Quote:
It's outlived famous shows like The X Files and Buffy in its revival years alone,
Also, The X-Files beats the current revival of Doctor Who in every respect (23 years, 10 Seasons, 208 Episodes to Doctor Who's current revival numbers of 11 years, 9 seasons and 130 episodes). Note, this is those shows entire history against the current revival of Doctor Who, but you laid out those parameters, so I just wanted to insert the actual numbers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#67 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,404
|
I guess my view is that the show in those first few years was critically acclaimed and had mass appeal, where as now (I feel) it has critical acclaim but its appeal has narrowed. I have mentioned in this forum previously about the lack of NTA nominations, and it is interesting the article references falling merchandise sales.
So I can see why the BBC would look to a time the show appeared more popular/successful and want to recreate that success. There was a joy to the show in those days too, a real sense of embracing the adventure and the journey that we've gradually lost over the past few seasons. Certainly, as others have said, it's been all doom and gloom for two seasons now. I can see why kids would tune in in 2005. I can't really see why they would tune in in 2017. And that shows a lack of future-proofing for the show that needs to be addressed. Also, the RTD era was an international hit too. Season 1 (Christopher Eccleston/Billie Piper) remains the BBC's most purchased drama series of all time and Tennant appears to be the most iconic/recognised Doctor from the New Who era. He even appeared (with Rose) in the most recent season of Family Guy! |
|
|
|
|
|
#68 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 695
|
Quote:
While I agree with most of what you said, I think that the above point is misleading and slightly hyperbolic. Technically, time wise, the current revival has outlasted Buffy in years and seasons (11 years, 9 seasons for Doctor Who and only 6 years, 7 seasons for Buffy), but Buffy still has more episodes than the current revival of Doctor Who (Buffy has 144 to the current revival's 130).
Also, The X-Files beats the current revival of Doctor Who in every respect (23 years, 10 Seasons, 208 Episodes to Doctor Who's current revival numbers of 11 years, 9 seasons and 130 episodes). Note, this is those shows entire history against the current revival of Doctor Who, but you laid out those parameters, so I just wanted to insert the actual numbers. ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#69 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 695
|
Quote:
I guess my view is that the show in those first few years was critically acclaimed and had mass appeal, where as now (I feel) it has critical acclaim but its appeal has narrowed. I have mentioned in this forum previously about the lack of NTA nominations, and it is interesting the article references falling merchandise sales.
So I can see why the BBC would look to a time the show appeared more popular/successful and want to recreate that success. There was a joy to the show in those days too, a real sense of embracing the adventure and the journey that we've gradually lost over the past few seasons. Certainly, as others have said, it's been all doom and gloom for two seasons now. I can see why kids would tune in in 2005. I can't really see why they would tune in in 2017. And that shows a lack of future-proofing for the show that needs to be addressed. Also, the RTD era was an international hit too. Season 1 (Christopher Eccleston/Billie Piper) remains the BBC's most purchased drama series of all time and Tennant appears to be the most iconic/recognised Doctor from the New Who era. He even appeared (with Rose) in the most recent season of Family Guy! |
|
|
|
|
|
#70 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,404
|
Quote:
One thing Moffat has done well in terms of audience was international growth, it really skyrocketed in his era.
Its worth noting many TV stations simply won't sniff at a TV show until it has clocked up a set amount of episodes and by 2010 Doctor Who had 75 episodes in the bag and the BBC's commitment to make more for the next two years at least. I'm not saying Moffat didn't play a part and I would certainly agree he appeared to have his eye on international sales more than RTD did (who likely just wanted to set the foundations) but that explosion of sales would have happened in 2010 regardless of whether Moffat had been onboard or not, because TV stations were buying up season 1/the first five years of the show. |
|
|
|
|
|
#71 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,505
|
Just me who found the RTD era gloomier and more depressing then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#72 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 413
|
Quote:
Just me who found the RTD era gloomier and more depressing then?
![]() With Martha and Donna there was plenty of fun and joy - something that carried on into Matt's era with Amy and Rory. River of course added to that by the bucketful too, but it all started going wrong with Clara for me. That, coupled with the dark and frankly rude 12th Doctor, it's been gloomy for two years now (barring Husbands of River Song). |
|
|
|
|
#73 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 695
|
Quote:
Just me who found the RTD era gloomier and more depressing then?
![]() However in S8-9 i definitely understand some people angry about the lack of fun, lighthearted episodes. In those 2 seasons i can think of 2 episodes which tried to fit that bill in Robots of Sherwood and The Forest of the Night and they were both awful. |
|
|
|
|
|
#74 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,404
|
Quote:
That, coupled with the dark and frankly rude 12th Doctor, it's been gloomy for two years now (barring Husbands of River Song).
|
|
|
|
|
|
#75 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London
Posts: 279
|
Do children still play Doctor Who games in school?
Quote:
Well... yes, actually.
![]() |
|
|
|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:05.




That won't happen.



