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EE - Do you think Whitney is asking for too much?


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Old 16-11-2016, 12:55
benbenalen
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Knowing his depression, too me she's coming off as a good digger and she's forgetting she was raised at the bottom of the pile with the low life Jackson family. So without Lees fake big job in the city. She would think he's less of the man she's been hoping for.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:11
Aaron_Silver
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I think what is being shown rather well is the ignorance and lack of knowledge concerning depression. Mick, Linda and Whitney clearly have absolutely no idea of the depth of despair Lee is going through
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:17
haphash
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I think what is being shown rather well is the ignorance and lack of knowledge concerning depression. Mick, Linda and Whitney clearly have absolutely no idea of the depth of despair Lee is going through
I agree totally. They have no idea how debilitating it is.

Whitney's expectations are completely unreasonable and she is contributing very little with just a bar job. Why hasn't she gone back to working with children?
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:19
Lady Voldemort
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She seems to have literally no concept of their combined income versus outgoings and appears to be adopting the stance of a 1950s housewife - perhaps now Belinda gone Whitney could take over her 50s-style wardrobe to accompany this.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:21
Chihiro77
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I think what is being shown rather well is the ignorance and lack of knowledge concerning depression. Mick, Linda and Whitney clearly have absolutely no idea of the depth of despair Lee is going through
I do agree, however having lived for many years with someone with depression I can say that sometimes it is really, really hard to be understanding 24 hours a day especially if they are making decisions that affect your life.

I am well aware of mental health problems because of my job but coming home to it every single night is something else completely. I know that's not really what they are showing here, i went off on a bit of a tangent there...
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:22
Aaron_Silver
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I agree totally. They have no idea how debilitating it is.

Whitney's expectations are completely unreasonable and she is contributing very little with just a bar job. Why hasn't she gone back to working with children?
I think they are deliberately doing this, and magnifying the effect on Lee leading to all the lies, but it is realistic, people do have the unrealistic expectation that people just "snap" out of depression and it disappears, people who have suffered mental illness, however, know it doesn't work like that.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:25
StevieR
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Whitney has just lost her baby, she's throwing herself into the wedding as a coping mechanism.

Plus, as you've mentioned, she's been dragged up by the Jacksons and hasn't had anything great in her life, Lee has told her he has a well paid job in the city and she can have what she wants. Why would she disbelieve him?

Whitney has had some really vile boyfriends over the years & she's finally found happiness with what she sees as a stable, loving family.

Whitney would have been proud of lee getting a job in a call centre if he had told her from the start, it's Lee's perception that's screwed because of the depression. He doesn't think his job is good enough, he doesn't think he's good enough for Whitney.

Most people suffer with depression in silence and no-one around them are aware. All his family can see is their successful fiancée / son getting married and it's time to push the boat out because of the heartache they endured a month or so ago.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:26
vaslav37
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I don't think Whitney realizes how unhappy Lee actually is.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:27
Aaron_Silver
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She seems to have literally no concept of their combined income versus outgoings and appears to be adopting the stance of a 1950s housewife - perhaps now Belinda gone Whitney could take over her 50s-style wardrobe to accompany this.


I so love your warm humour Lady V
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:33
Ancalagon
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Whitney has just lost her baby, she's throwing herself into the wedding as a coping mechanism.

Plus, as you've mentioned, she's been dragged up by the Jacksons and hasn't had anything great in her life, Lee has told her he has a well paid job in the city and she can have what she wants. Why would she disbelieve him?

Whitney has had some really vile boyfriends over the years & she's finally found happiness with what she sees as a stable, loving family.

Whitney would have been proud of lee getting a job in a call centre if he had told her from the start, it's Lee's perception that's screwed because of the depression. He doesn't think his job is good enough, he doesn't think he's good enough for Whitney.

Most people suffer with depression in silence and no-one around them are aware. All his family can see is their successful fiancée / son getting married and it's time to push the boat out because of the heartache they endured a month or so ago.
I agree Lee's perception of events, view of himself, none existent self esteem etc is clouding his judgement, his depression is really getting him down and it seems no one around him can see he is suffering.

Whitney is being ridiculous at the moment though- Not her fault it's the direction the show is making her go in just so it can tie in with Lee's story- but honestly the things she is doing, expecting and wants for the future is enough to make any guy crack with pressure even if they were not already depressed.

Everything she says at the moment, more or less, is adding to Lee's mental state- even when she is praising him and trying to give him a confidence boost he is interpreting that as more and more pressure to be "perfect" in her eyes and he already feels so worthless that he genuinely can't fathom why Whitney would want him.

It's silly that she or anyone expects the lifestyle she suddenly wants on essentially a single income.

The real issue is the ignorance everyone has surrounding mental illness and I really look forward to seeing how that develops when Lee inevitably cracks.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:35
priscilla
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How is she a gold digger? She was with Lee when he was selling fish she loves him for him not for his 'money'. She is happy for him, and if she knew the truth I doubt she'd expect him to get a flat. The family are oblivious to Lee's depression, he doesn't look happy at all and despite attempts at getting him to open up they just take his word. So in way knowing that he has history with depression they should be slightly more aware but I can't fault Whit, she's just believing the lies that she has been told.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:38
FingersAndToes
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Whitney has just lost her baby, she's throwing herself into the wedding as a coping mechanism.

Plus, as you've mentioned, she's been dragged up by the Jacksons and hasn't had anything great in her life, Lee has told her he has a well paid job in the city and she can have what she wants. Why would she disbelieve him?

Whitney has had some really vile boyfriends over the years & she's finally found happiness with what she sees as a stable, loving family.

Whitney would have been proud of lee getting a job in a call centre if he had told her from the start, it's Lee's perception that's screwed because of the depression. He doesn't think his job is good enough, he doesn't think he's good enough for Whitney.

Most people suffer with depression in silence and no-one around them are aware. All his family can see is their successful fiancée / son getting married and it's time to push the boat out because of the heartache they endured a month or so ago.
Well said.

Whitney has never been after money, and been happy with just a loving, caring boyfriend. I think this is a build up of many things, and it's not as simple as 'Whitney is asking too much and being unreasonable'.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:49
kitkat1971
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I've not seen this,weeks yet but I am finding Whitney rather demanding and unrealistic in her ecpectations so somewhat unlikeabke. She is giving the impression that she saw marriage as some.kind of fairytale ending and once married it mwould be her husbands sole responsibility to buy her a nice home and provide for her whilst she is the perfect stay at home housewife and mother. I know she does the odd shift in The Vic but se doesn't seem to be making any effort to find other work and would she even keep up with that job if they'd moved away from the Square?

However, as Aaron says, I do think they are doing it to highlight how little the family understand depression and the damage the kind of pressure they are putting on him, especially Whitney with the flat can have on his health.

I also think they are showing how insular and sheltered Whitneys life has been. I know that sounds odd given what she has been through including the abuse and being homeless but she ckearly has no idea of what office work is avtuakly like for most people on terms of type of work, office set up, salary, hierachy. Even most managers don't have their own offices or secretarys these days. They also wouldn't refer to those that report into them as 'their staff' and they eould be mocked if they, or their wife, did. When Whitney met that colleague, why did she assume he was lower than Lee rather than the same level or even higher? Does she think that Lee is the CEO or Chairman and everybody is lower than him?

She came across like she thinks she is the Queen meeting her subjects.

I don't mean that nastily but I guess all her ideas about working in 'The City' come from tv and films so bear little resemblance to reality. Whuch us not her fault but it all makes it worse for Lee who just can't face correcting her. Because all these high images of his job, like him having his own PA are coming from Whitney, Lee usnt lying about yhem off hus own back to imoress her. He's just not putting her right because he thinks he'll disappoint her and she'll realise she is ,'too good for him' if he's not got al the success status symbols she has assumed he has.
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Old 16-11-2016, 13:55
Aaron_Silver
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I've not seen this,weeks yet but I am finding Whitney rather demanding and unrealistic in her ecpectations so somewhat unlikeabke. She is giving the impression that she saw marriage as some.kind of fairytale ending and once married it mwould be her husbands sole responsibility to buy her a nice home and provide for her whilst she is the perfect stay at home housewife and mother. I know she does the odd shift in The Vic but se doesn't seem to be making any effort to find other work and would she even keep up with that job if they'd moved away from the Square?

However, as Aaron says, I do think they are doing it to highlight how little the family understand depression and the damage the kind of pressure they are putting on him, especially Whitney with the flat can have on his health.

I also think they are showing how insular and sheltered Whitneys life has been. I know that sounds odd given what she has been through including the abuse and being homeless but she ckearly has no idea of what office work is avtuakly like for most people on terms of type of work, office set up, salary, hierachy. Even most managers don't have their own offices or secretarys these days. They also wouldn't refer to those that report into them as 'their staff' and they eould be mocked if they, or their wife, did. When Whitney met that colleague, why did she assume he was lower than Lee rather than the same level or even higher? Does she think that Lee is the CEO or Chairman and everybody is lower than him?

She came across like she thinks she is the Queen meeting her subjects.

I don't mean that nastily but I guess all her ideas about working in 'The City' come from tv and films so bear little resemblance to reality. Whuch us not her fault but it all makes it worse for Lee who just can't face correcting her. Because all these high images of his job, like him having his own PA are coming from Whitney, Lee usnt lying about yhem off hus own back to imoress her. He's just not putting her right because he thinks he'll disappoint her and she'll realise she is ,'too good for him' if he's not got al the success status symbols she has assumed he has.
Yes, kitkat you are so good at these long detailed posts, and I love reading them, due to some health issues I don't really do many long posts as my mind is not at its sharpest at the moment and they sometimes end up making no sense. I agree with you, and your understanding of the many complex issues involved with depression is fascinating, thanks for your fabulous posts.
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Old 16-11-2016, 14:02
_elly001
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It's a difficult one. On one level I think Whitney is happy to love and support Lee regardless of his job, but she has never come across so blissfully happy and animated as she currently is and I think Lee has developed an inferiority complex as a result of that. He is very good at lying to her and his parents and because she likes what she's hearing, she has no reason to doubt him. She also has this projected image in her head of what his job involves and how it should be (when he told her he couldn't get an advance on his wages she just dismissed that with 'Of course you can, just ask your boss.') She isn't putting pressure on him deliberately but she is wrapped up in this fantasy of being a newlywed moving into a swanky new flat in Central London, and as a result I can see why Lee is continuing to lie to her. He doesn't think he's good enough for her and he's convinced himself that she deserves better than what he's truthfully able to give her.

Don't get me wrong, I do find her behavior frustrating, but I think it's quite a complicated situation and that there's nobody really 'to blame' for Lee's downward spiral.
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Old 16-11-2016, 14:27
vald
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Under the cicumstances , yes. What she wants is not unreasonable...a home of their own and a family. What she and the family don't realize is that Lee is still depressed and a pill is not a cure all, not when it comes to this condition.
She's convinced that her dreams are his dreams too and even that he is sublimely happy which couldn't be further from the truth. I am convinced that if she knew the truth she would be completely supportive as would his family.
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Old 16-11-2016, 14:30
Dan-Bevis
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Yes and no, she and the rest of his family are only about as ignorant as every other person [who doesn't suffer a mental illness], sadly, in that they think the fact he's on his meds[?] will stop him ever slumping back into depression. It won't.

But Lee is also feeding their lofty expectations by first lying about the job he got and the money he's earning. What else are they meant to think when he's not telling it as it is. The rational part of him [that's being buried by his depression] knows that they wouldn't care where he worked or what he was earning as long as he was happy [a job's a job].

As I said in the episode thread yesterday, whilst she didn't know what she was twigging exactly from Lee, he really should have taken Linda's intervention as a means of unburdening himself of this growing web of lies.
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Old 16-11-2016, 15:06
kitkat1971
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Can somebody please pont me to when he started the lie o r gave them an unrealistic idea of the job because to my memory, all he said
Was that he was going for an office job which they then assumed was more than it was and he hasn't corrected them. Of course he is misleading them by not telling the truth and Whitney can't be blamed for spending.money when he has expressly told her it is okay to but where the lie started, him bigging up his job to impress ir them assuming and him feeling a failure if he corrects them is crucial to me.

From exchanges like the PA one, when Lee replied "of course I've got a PA" to Whitney on the phone, it dies seem that these mistruths are coming from her with him congirming what she had assumed because he is scared to disollusion her. Even when he has tried, like with the salary advance or asking her not to ring his mobike as they aren't allowed them on in the office, she just dismisses it, saying that of course he can if he speaks to his boss or saying he has a PA and asking for her extension number.

I don't think Whitney is a gold digger, she does love him for him and would no.matter what his job was. Although it does have to be remembered that she didn't really like him working on the fish stall as she didn't like the smell and she pushed him to go for that Bar Managers job at the beginning of the year. She was also talking about flats and big weddings back then and Lee kept saying they didn't have the money but she seemed to have this "oh it'll be okay, we'll find the money" attitude.

I don't think it is gold digging and no, there isn't anything unreasonable in a young engaged (now married) woman wanting her own home, especially when planning a family, but most people know that it just isn't possible without 2 fairly good salaries and a lot of sacrifices need to be made, including delaying starting a family. Especially if buying in London, even the cheaper parts.

I think it is just primal in her. She sees part of the happiness of meeting the right man and getting married as being 'taken care of' and that includes financially. But I don't think it is a conscious thought process.
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Old 16-11-2016, 15:35
Collins1965
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Whitney is annoying me intensely. Not because I feel she is gold digging but because she is happy to sit back and let Lee do it all by himself. Not once have I heard her say what HER contribution is going to be.

Also how thick are the entire family to believe that one minute an ex squaddie with no formal education (that we know of) is selling fish on a market stall and the next he has a big city job managing people and earning mega bucks??? I ask you!!
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Old 16-11-2016, 15:45
Ten_Ben
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Can somebody please pont me to when he started the lie o r gave them an unrealistic idea of the job because to my memory, all he said
Was that he was going for an office job which they then assumed was more than it was and he hasn't corrected them. Of course he is misleading them by not telling the truth and Whitney can't be blamed for spending.money when he has expressly told her it is okay to but where the lie started, him bigging up his job to impress ir them assuming and him feeling a failure if he corrects them is crucial to me.

From exchanges like the PA one, when Lee replied "of course I've got a PA" to Whitney on the phone, it dies seem that these mistruths are coming from her with him congirming what she had assumed because he is scared to disollusion her. Even when he has tried, like with the salary advance or asking her not to ring his mobike as they aren't allowed them on in the office, she just dismisses it, saying that of course he can if he speaks to his boss or saying he has a PA and asking for her extension number.

I don't think Whitney is a gold digger, she does love him for him and would no.matter what his job was. Although it does have to be remembered that she didn't really like him working on the fish stall as she didn't like the smell and she pushed him to go for that Bar Managers job at the beginning of the year. She was also talking about flats and big weddings back then and Lee kept saying they didn't have the money but she seemed to have this "oh it'll be okay, we'll find the money" attitude.

I don't think it is gold digging and no, there isn't anything unreasonable in a young engaged (now married) woman wanting her own home, especially when planning a family, but most people know that it just isn't possible without 2 fairly good salaries and a lot of sacrifices need to be made, including delaying starting a family. Especially if buying in London, even the cheaper parts.

I think it is just primal in her. She sees part of the happiness of meeting the right man and getting married as being 'taken care of' and that includes financially. But I don't think it is a conscious thought process.
I think as you say, Whitney, Mick and Linda made certain assumptions which Lee never corrected, he just went along with everything.

I suspect that he was told at the interview how much the top sales people make with their commission and so assumed it was never going to be a problem once the sales start racking up and the commission was rolling in. Of course, he know knows the reality and that has just made things worse.

On top of this, he doesn't like confrontation and goes out of his way to avoid it, so he just tries to put everything to one side and hopes to ride out the storm. Even putting his wife and parents right is going to be a conversation (confrontation) too far for him. Inside he knows things are spiraling out of control but he simply doesn't know how, and is not able, to do anything about it.
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Old 16-11-2016, 15:57
SULLA
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I don't think Whitney realizes how unhappy Lee actually is.
Perhaps he should tell her

She thinks he has an excellent job.

A place of their own is not unreasnable.
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Old 16-11-2016, 15:57
mikebuk
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Whitney grew up with Bianca acting as a mother figure so we know the kind of 'values' she would have bestowed upon her.
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Old 16-11-2016, 16:07
kitkat1971
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Whitney is annoying me intensely. Not because I feel she is gold digging but because she is happy to sit back and let Lee do it all by himself. Not once have I heard her say what HER contribution is going to be.

Also how thick are the entire family to believe that one minute an ex squaddie with no formal education (that we know of) is selling fish on a market stall and the next he has a big city job managing people and earning mega bucks??? I ask you!!
Exactly this.

I don't think viewers would be as harsh on Whitney if she seemed to be making and saving money rather than just spending it. Even just a line like "I only spent 20 quid from my wages this week, the rest went into our savings account" or "I've asked Linda for as many shifts as possible so I can put more into our account, I want to contribute as much as I can" it would help make her seem less entitled.
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Old 16-11-2016, 16:10
kitkat1971
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Perhaps he should tell her

She thinks he has an excellent job.

A place of their own is not unreasnable.
Speaking from experience of myself and my friends, even those with excellent jobs in London which pay well have to save for several years to be able to afford a deposit or get a mortgage.

I'm not sure I'd say she is being unreasonable so much as unrealistic.
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Old 16-11-2016, 16:10
fredster
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I think what is being shown rather well is the ignorance and lack of knowledge concerning depression. Mick, Linda and Whitney clearly have absolutely no idea of the depth of despair Lee is going through
It's Lees fault, he has led them to believe he has a well paid job.
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