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BBC4 Slow Event (The Flying Scotsman)


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Old 29-12-2016, 21:43
DJF06
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This seems more of a documentary than a go slow.

Not enough outside front shots either.
It's being repeated on New Years Day without the commentary, which will bring it a little more in-line with the previous ones - though it's not actually part of the 'All Aboard' series as the others were and is made by a different production company.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:21
BellaRosa
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That was wonderful.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:28
hooter
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It says a lot about what has happened in the world when you have to tune into a TV programme to experience a nice journey!
Aye.

Really enjoyed tonight's slow offering, also enjoyed the bus journey and the sleigh ride....
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Old 30-12-2016, 07:17
Andrew1954
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What a delightful hour of viewing. Interesting to see that the role of the fireman involves rather more than just shovling coal. The line speed was limited to 25mph. It struck me that in the days when the engine steamed along in its heyday hour after hour at 100mph the fireman's job must have been a hard one keeping that firebox fueled and the steam pressures just right. Amazing.
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Old 30-12-2016, 08:38
zandar
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It might be a good idea to do similar programmes with steam engines on the mainline. You can find out whether any are coming your way by clicking this link - select the year & the following 2 months to find out. A few days before the trip, the timings should appear - or a cancelled notice. If you want to go on one of the steam specials, click the name of the
operator/marketing agency.http://www.uksteam.info/tours/

Special rail trips also appear on this site - which includes diesels.http://railwayherald.com/railtours
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Old 30-12-2016, 09:49
yviebabe
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My dad was a chef on the Flying Scotsman.
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Old 30-12-2016, 11:31
Andy2
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For the first 10 or 15 minutes I was wondering whether to ditch this in favour of catching-up on Jonathan Creek, but it slowly got under my skin and I became fascinated by the fire/steam/speed equation and the use of 'tokens' on single track stretches. I was quite disappointed when it finished, i could have gone another hour.
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Old 30-12-2016, 11:37
Sarahsaurus
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What a delightful hour of viewing. Interesting to see that the role of the fireman involves rather more than just shovling coal. The line speed was limited to 25mph. It struck me that in the days when the engine steamed along in its heyday hour after hour at 100mph the fireman's job must have been a hard one keeping that firebox fueled and the steam pressures just right. Amazing.
This is the problem with running engines like 60103 on these heritage lines. They look nice, but it's too slow. Flying Scotsman was built as an express train, to go fast. And that what she should be doing. Not pootling along at 25 miles an hour. In a way its a disservice to the engine. Then again she is nearly a hundred years old now. We are lucky to have her in steam at all.

I'm sure I read somewhere that at top speed there's something like a ton of coal had to be shovelled into the firebox every hour to keep an express steam engine going. Hence why on the non stop King's Cross to Edinburgh trip they needed two crews and they changed places at half way. There was a corridor through the tender so they could swap over without stopping the engine.
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Old 30-12-2016, 11:59
lundavra
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This is the problem with running engines like 60103 on these heritage lines. They look nice, but it's too slow. Flying Scotsman was built as an express train, to go fast. And that what she should be doing. Not pootling along at 25 miles an hour. In a way its a disservice to the engine. Then again she is nearly a hundred years old now. We are lucky to have her in steam at all.

I'm sure I read somewhere that at top speed there's something like a ton of coal had to be shovelled into the firebox every hour to keep an express steam engine going. Hence why on the non stop King's Cross to Edinburgh trip they needed two crews and they changed places at half way. There was a corridor through the tender so they could swap over without stopping the engine.
It raises the profile of the Severn Valley line and NRM as well as brings in some income for them. Museums tend to have "Outreach" in their constitution or Mission Statement. Many people in the Midlands got a rare chance to see the Flying Scotsman, there were people watching at just about anywhere accessible near the line.
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Old 30-12-2016, 12:51
Sarahsaurus
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It raises the profile of the Severn Valley line and NRM as well as brings in some income for them. Museums tend to have "Outreach" in their constitution or Mission Statement. Many people in the Midlands got a rare chance to see the Flying Scotsman, there were people watching at just about anywhere accessible near the line.
To stand on the footplate of one of these engines when they're working is a privilege indeed. I've never stood on the footplate of 60103 but last year I was behind 60009 Union of South Africa on one of the Borders railway trips. At the end of the line when people were crowding around the engine I asked the crew if I could get up on the footplate. "Aye, of course, on you come." I could really feel the heat from the firebox, which was still burning. When I mentioned it the driver said, "You should feel the heat when it's going."

The NRM is nice, they have 92220 Evening Star in the main hall, and you can stand on the footplate of that. But it's not really the same in a museum as when the engines is actually on the line in steam. Maybe they will get Evening Star going again one day.

And while they're at it, get the last remaining APT at Crewe going again.

Choo choo!
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:30
Doghouse Riley
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Good programme.

A question for the "Ian Allan I-Spy Aficionados."

I remember reading in my youth that with the semaphore signals. That "go" was at one time with arm down at 45 degrees, then changed to the arm being raised at 45 degrees, as it was considered in heavy snow, the weight of snow on the arm in the "stop" position, might force it down to "go," which might cause an accident.

Is this true?
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:40
Sarahsaurus
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Good programme.

A question for the "Ian Allan I-Spy Aficionados."

I remember reading in my youth that with the semaphore signals. That "go" was at one time with arm down at 45 degrees, then changed to the arm being raised at 45 degrees, as it was considered in heavy snow, the weight of snow on the arm in the "stop" position, might force it down to "go," which might cause an accident.

Is this true?
Not sure but I'm sure something like that happened in one of the Railway Series books by Rev W Awdry. (Better known these days as Thomas The Tank Engine.) I think it might have been the one about Henry. He was always keen that the books be as realistic as possible as regards real railway operation. So it may well be true.

By the way I had no idea who Ian Allan was. I had to look him up.

I am not a trainspotter.

I just like choo choos.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:40
Doghouse Riley
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Not sure but I'm sure something like that happened in one of the Railway Series books by Rev W Awdry. (Better known these days as Thomas The Tank Engine.) I think it might have been the one about Henry. He was always keen that the books be as realistic as possible as regards real railway operation. So it may well be true.

By the way I had no idea who Ian Allan was. I had to look him up.

I am not a trainspotter.

I just like choo choos.
Digressing a bit.

At around the age of ten, I used to make a regular Sunday morning journey on the tube from near our home in Morden to Regents Park to visit an aunt. I always sat in the front carriage. So I was on "nodding terms" with the driver. One morning when there were no other passengers in the front car, he invited me into the cab. Then followed a detailed explanation of what was happening throughout the journey. It's easy to imagine that it's all just tunnels, but there were a couple of vast "cathedral like brick built caverns" through which we passed.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:52
iamian
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Good programme.

A question for the "Ian Allan I-Spy Aficionados."

I remember reading in my youth that with the semaphore signals. That "go" was at one time with arm down at 45 degrees, then changed to the arm being raised at 45 degrees, as it was considered in heavy snow, the weight of snow on the arm in the "stop" position, might force it down to "go," which might cause an accident.

Is this true?
Both upper quadrant (up at 45°) and lower quadrant (down at 45°) were and are still used to indicate a clear track. The snow argument is relevant to a move towards upper quadrant signals but the Great Western Railway / Western Region stuck with lower quadrant and used a heavy spectacle plate as a counterweight. The Great Northern Railway used a centrally pivoted 'somersault' signal to get round the snow issue after a particularly bad accident at Abbots Ripton but these were not favoured by the London & North Eastern Railway into which the GNR was subsumed in 1923.

The snow argument is also why on railway signal lights the red (stop) aspect is at the bottom so that snow cannot build up on a shade below it. The shades are somewhat deeper than on road traffic signals.
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Old 30-12-2016, 16:07
lundavra
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To stand on the footplate of one of these engines when they're working is a privilege indeed. I've never stood on the footplate of 60103 but last year I was behind 60009 Union of South Africa on one of the Borders railway trips. At the end of the line when people were crowding around the engine I asked the crew if I could get up on the footplate. "Aye, of course, on you come." I could really feel the heat from the firebox, which was still burning. When I mentioned it the driver said, "You should feel the heat when it's going."

The NRM is nice, they have 92220 Evening Star in the main hall, and you can stand on the footplate of that. But it's not really the same in a museum as when the engines is actually on the line in steam. Maybe they will get Evening Star going again one day.

And while they're at it, get the last remaining APT at Crewe going again.

Choo choo!
Years ago I took some friends' kids to a railway museum in Northamptonshire(?). They were working on quite a few locomotives there and one of the staff told us to follow him and took us along the inspection trench under the locomotives. I seem to remember we were able to climb on the footplate of just about any of them that we wanted.

I see the Jacobite most days in Summer and it has been up for the last couple of days. I think they let people stand at the side of the footplate for pictures but no further.
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Old 30-12-2016, 16:49
Ess_Bee
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The snow argument is also why on railway signal lights the red (stop) aspect is at the bottom so that snow cannot build up on a shade below it. The shades are somewhat deeper than on road traffic signals.
I loved this programme. Wish they'd do more. At last I know what 'SW' means; i thought it was South West but DH tells me it means' Sound Whistle'! (He used to work for Ian Allan.) I was also trying to work out how the tokens worked and have just about got it.

I wonder if we're the only country in the world that is so much into its historical steam railways and trains.
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Old 30-12-2016, 23:08
tiv
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This is the problem with running engines like 60103 on these heritage lines. They look nice, but it's too slow. Flying Scotsman was built as an express train, to go fast. And that what she should be doing. Not pootling along at 25 miles an hour. In a way its a disservice to the engine. Then again she is nearly a hundred years old now. We are lucky to have her in steam at all.

I'm sure I read somewhere that at top speed there's something like a ton of coal had to be shovelled into the firebox every hour to keep an express steam engine going. Hence why on the non stop King's Cross to Edinburgh trip they needed two crews and they changed places at half way. There was a corridor through the tender so they could swap over without stopping the engine.
Actually there is very little of the original engine left, have a look here http://blog.nrm.org.uk/how-much-flyi...sman-original/
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:51
ClarkF1
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Loved it.

Never occurred to me that the placing of the coal in the fire was important.

Went on the Great Central Railway at Loughborough this year and went on the footplate. Lovely warm fire. Didn't want to leave.
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Old 31-12-2016, 12:48
Sarahsaurus
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Actually there is very little of the original engine left, have a look here http://blog.nrm.org.uk/how-much-flyi...sman-original/
Yes, I've read that before. I'm quite surprised the NRM is so open about admitting that a lot of what you see is not the original engine.

It's the classic Theseus's ship argument. Theseus's ship was so old they reckoned that every plank of the original ship had been replaced at one time or another. This led to the argument between the philosophers as to whether it could still be considered the original ship or not. Was it still Theseus's ship?

The modern version of this is Trigger's broom. Or the Sugababes.

Is Flying Scotsman still the Flying Scotsman?

I would say yes, just. They could have kept the original Flying Scotsman in the museum and built an exact replica of it for steaming round the country and for trips and shows and so on . It would probably have been cheaper and easier to run. (See 60163 Tornado.) But it would never BE Flying Scotsman.
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:02
Ulsterguy
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I loved this programme. Wish they'd do more. At last I know what 'SW' means; i thought it was South West but DH tells me it means' Sound Whistle'! (He used to work for Ian Allan.) I was also trying to work out how the tokens worked and have just about got it.

I wonder if we're the only country in the world that is so much into its historical steam railways and trains.
The token basically allows only one train on a single line at any time. No token, no go. Even on double track sections only one train is allowed in a particular section, the following train can't move until the section in front is clear. That's why everything grinds to a halt when the signals go down.
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Old 02-01-2017, 16:59
A.D.P
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I recorded it, now watched it, and enjoyed it.
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Old 02-01-2017, 18:06
mike65
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Watched the no VO repeat, whiled an hour away delightfully. Not sure why they needed four men for the cab area though
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Old 02-01-2017, 18:29
JERRY HIPKISS
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Watched the no VO repeat, whiled an hour away delightfully. Not sure why they needed four men for the cab area though
I believe that the driver and fireman were from the Severn Valley Railway, the two in the background were the engine's "minders" from the National Rail Museum. Like you, I watched the repeat and enjoyed it just as much.
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Old 02-01-2017, 18:55
Sarahsaurus
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I believe that the driver and fireman were from the Severn Valley Railway, the two in the background were the engine's "minders" from the National Rail Museum. Like you, I watched the repeat and enjoyed it just as much.
They're there just in case the driver gets carried away and would like to see how fast he can get it to go.

"What happens if I pull this lever?"
"Don't touch that."
"No, go on, what happens?"
"Just leave it alone."
(Pulls lever. Engine suddenly accelerates.)
"What do we do now?"
"You tell me, you're supposed to know how to drive this thing.."
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Old 02-01-2017, 19:04
Sarahsaurus
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Five minutes later:

"What's it doing now?"
"Eighty five miles an hour."
"You shouldn't have pulled that lever. You've annoyed it."
"Annoyed it? What are you talking about? it's just a machine. It's not alive. Or is it?"
"it wants to go at a hundred miles an hour again. Like it used to."
"How do we stop it? The brake's not working.."
"It'll stop when it wants to."
"And when's that?"
"I don't know. Probably 126 miles an hour, if it can manage it."
"WHAT?"
"That would break Mallard's record.."
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