I think that's a very good explanation, though I also think tabithakitten has a point about some opinions being wrong.

In effect what's happening is that you're using "better dancer" in two different ways. Which is why people sometimes add a qualification and say "better technically" or, as tabithakitten did in one post, "from a pure dance perspective":

Fine, this show is not about dancing, it's a popularly contest for the dark nights with a dance theme. Anyone can win, that's the point.

Emotional connection is wholly subjective. Technical achievement is not. Technical achievement is what is first measured in dancing. But even if we agreed that there were two sets of marks for technical and emotional/performance aspect (I lay aside "entertainment" in this instance since many of those who are watching aren't really judging on dance),

a) the second mark is subjective enough that a fair amount may well prefer Danny anyway

and

b) the difference would be nowhere near enough to overturn the technical difficiencies.

And I still believe that tonight, at least, this holds true for all other celebs.

If you're arguing from a perspective that the entertainment aspect of Ed's dances (that is, the staging, music, props etc) also makes him "better", then that's also a false argument.

Again you're talking about formal dance assessment. As Veri says, we're using the term 'better dancer' differently, so that proves it's not an objective factual term.

I'm really just trying to explain why people might take umbrage when you say they're 'wrong', because the fact that this is a programme on popular television opens the term 'better dancer' up to include subjective criteria beyond formal dance assessment.

And the entertainment aspect is not just about the props and staging, it's about how he uses them and communicates with the audience.

Usually heaps of comment I skip through, now I can't find the results. I don't want to watch Claudia without a bra.

Claudia vs Greg. Greg out.

But you can't really put them into an objective critique when you look at any of them as dancers. Because they don't all get the same opportunities to use the outlandish effects that may or may not be given to them. And this is why you have to try and put this aside when assessing each of them to see who's "better". And why, when objectively doing that, Ed is not better than anyone remaining and tonight was a whole lot worse.

And to be honest, I don't really care if people take umbrage if I say they're wrong. (You might have gleaned this - I don't know ). I'll always try to explain but if those reading said explanation aren't convinced, I won't be that bothered. And I'll still think they're wrong.

It's not really the props that make Ed entertaining to me anyway (didn't think the piano added much for example); it's more his manner and his warmth that I feel coming across through the dance.

Of course they might not all get the same opportunities (not sure about this), but that's more the producers' responsibility and we can only respond to what's presented to us, not what should or could have been.

Anyway I think I've said more than enough on this and of course I am not challenging you in terms of formal dance assessment. I was mainly trying to get across why some people may have got annoyed about being labelled as 'wrong' and also to explain a bit of the 'Ed appeal'.

I think people might also be frustrated that they are seen as mindless populists for liking Ed, whereas they may have thought and felt more deeply than that about his dancing and felt a positive effect from it - I know he's managed to lift my mood slightly, which believe me is no mean feat!

The thing is, I've said (even in this thread) that anyone saying they prefer Ed's dancing or that he's the most entertaining of those left is absolutely entitled to that opinion and I wouldn't dispute it. I'd even sympathise to an extent. It's the adjective "better" that I object to. (Yes, I'm a pedant in the extreme- so sue me .)

I have no interest in watching Louise. I'd watch anyone else left several times before her. However, I think she's a better dancer than anyone else left bar Danny. She's doing nothing for me in terms of engaging me in her performance but objectively I still think she's "better" than almost everyone left. I hope against hope she doesn't win though.

Popped my head in for the first time tonight, as was out at this evening, so didn't vote, whizzed through the show on catchup and feared for little Claudia- and clearly rightly so At least she lives to fight another week !
I don't know if its been mentioned, as the thread seems to have derailed somewhat in true DS fashion... But it's another Quickstep v Jive dance off at Blackpool, same as it was last year ! Though seemingly not quite the same fireworks as Pandre v Jamgate, well at least not involving the two couples who were actually in the dance off ... !

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Claudia v Greg - Greg out.

Thanks for the spoiler x.

The problem is that "better" can legitimately be understood (and hence measured or evaluated) in more than one way. That's why people sometimes say "better technically", or use some other wording (such as your earlier "from a pure dance perspective"), to make it clear that they're saying "better" in a particular sense.

Great post. Agreed

But when talking about a dance, I'd say it's pretty clear that it's the the putting together of that dance that we're talking about. And in that sense - whatever warmth or charm someone like Ed can add to his performance, his technical deficiencies mean he can never be classed as better than someone like Danny or even Louise overall. Usually, I'd argue that words can be used to mean all sorts of things but I think that in this instance, to argue that "better" means "more entertaining" or "better as a spectacle" or "better for my family to enjoy" or whatever way you want to twist it is just semantics. Everyone knows what "better" means in this instance. And it ain't Ed.

I was worried for Claudia, she went first (so folks forget to vote) and she was mid-table. She made a mistake, which they commented on, vs others whose mistakes might not have been pointed out as clearly. I was fairly sure it was either her, Greg or Judge in the DO, and given Judge went last, was not surprised to see the DO composition. But as in many series, we can always argue about dance vs entertainment, given the population that watches and why they watch. Popularity and entertainment value always plays a part, as does the judge's opinions / placings.

I'm sad Greg has gone. I did vote Greg, Robert and Ed. I didn't enjoy Blackpool this year. Not great dances way over marked. Louise just doesn't float my boat neither does Danny.
The judges looking for sibling rivalry Cliftonville in final Danny/Louise/Ore! I'd sooner Ore or Robert won....
Who's voting for Louise!

For the first time this season I called it, the two couples in the DO and the eventual goners. Finally another man goes out, it's been a while!

Bumping up

How long have you been watching SCD? Happens every year, relax, and enjoy

Or...........a couple of bots, a narcistic type, a professional cryer and a tiny Tina. So, not good vs. evil, but rather the best option for some when looking at the alternatives.

But if Danny and Louise are indeed topping the audience vote, then Ed will be out on the quarters at the latest. And it's not like he has taken out any great dancers.

Will be interesting to see where his votes will go (when he is eliminated).

V sad to see Claudia there. Wasn't her best but she has had some real wow moments including Halloween week & her Charleston. Prefer her to everyone left bar Danny.

Will have to throw her more votes next week

I'm glad that Ed is still in and would vote for him over Danny any day of the week. He's started out from scratch, is progressing, puts on a fun performance which I find far more watchable than a robotically perfect routine from someone who's been dancing since he was just out of nappies


agreed

Thankyou very much to all who got us the spoilers. Blow kiss smiley!

I guessed it would be Greg & Claudia (never been known to get it right before). Pretty obvious that in that scenario Greg would go. I just wasn't wowed at all by Claudia's jive, and thought it was overmarked IMHO.

If by "idiots & phones" you mean those who used their right to vote for him, then you clearly don't understand the ethos of SCD. If it annoys you so much - then don't watch. Your blood pressure will thank you.