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Old 22-11-2016, 20:27
Deep Purple
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Training and experience is great, but most people behind the wheel believe they have that as well. Obviously not as intense as the observational skills mentioned earlier, but enough to criticise others and make basic mistakes themselves. I certainly wouldn't class someone a good driver if they habitually drove over the limit, or drove at inappropriate speeds (slow or fast)...to name just two speed related issues. I believe most people do so because they're not paying attention, hardly good driving practices and nothing to boast about. Doing it on purpose habitually won't win any best driver awards either.
Inappropriate speed is the biggest problem. Going a bit over the limit, when conditions allow is not a problem. Things dont turn dangerous between 60 and 61mph.

I would suggest every driver goes over the limit many times in a year, without causing any problems. Anyone who claims to have never exceeded the limit is a liar.
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Old 22-11-2016, 20:40
RobinOfLoxley
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I believe that the Courts, Prosecution and Defence Teams are often reluctant to use the term 'Liar'

'Mistaken' is the preferred term
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Old 22-11-2016, 20:41
Doctorb
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Absolutely. I've done it, easy to go into la la land, but by habit I check the speedo and adjust my speed. I don't like it because I feel like I've not being paying attention. Sometimes I do it but have automatically dropped to the limit because it's habit.

Last edited by Doctorb : 22-11-2016 at 20:45. Reason: Auto stupid correct
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Old 23-11-2016, 09:56
Deep Purple
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Absolutely. I've done it, easy to go into la la land, but by habit I check the speedo and adjust my speed. I don't like it because I feel like I've not being paying attention. Sometimes I do it but have automatically dropped to the limit because it's habit.
For clarification purposes here, and to stop people believing I'm encouraging people to speed, I'm not. (Not you Dr)

For the vast majority of the time I stick to the speed limits, as I would recommend everyone should do.

My point was towards people who claim that anyone going over the limit is driving dangerously. That is not true, unless other conditions exist. Speeding is an offence, but it doesn't automatically equate to dangerous driving, and we all go over the limits at times.
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Old 24-11-2016, 13:51
David (2)
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During training for the advanced driving test the observer (not allowed to call themselves instructors, not trained driving instructors), would say 'What was the last road sign we passed on the left', ' What was the price of petrol at the garage we just passed'

Observation is the hardest part of driving

I don't want people looking away from the road to look at the price of petrol.....it's not the thing I would look for, and certainly not on a test. It's irrelevant to road safety.
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Old 24-11-2016, 13:53
Harvey_Specter
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I don't want people looking away from the road to look at the price of petrol.....it's not the thing I would look for, and certainly not on a test. It's irrelevant to road safety.
Indeed, it's relevant to note there was a petrol station, but not the price of petrol.

They might well have asked what colour jacket the pedestrian they had passed was wearing; it's irrelevant information.
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Old 24-11-2016, 14:04
David (2)
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So I saw a few posts re high performance sports car, Audi R8 etc.
Don't want to generalise about all those owners, but of the few I have seen, they seem to be driven (in built up areas) like there's a rocket up their rear end - way over the 30 limit.
My theory is, if you buy one u want to drive it like a sports car.......but you can't - not on a regular road. Infact, other than the status, it's rather pointless......that's not jealously, it's fact. If you want to rag your sports car - go on a track, rest of the time drive normally on the regular roads.
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Old 24-11-2016, 14:08
Deep Purple
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I don't want people looking away from the road to look at the price of petrol.....it's not the thing I would look for, and certainly not on a test. It's irrelevant to road safety.
I think the price of petrol thing is an extreme example, and not one we were taught. All round observation was very important though.
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:37
Justin Aerial
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I've noticed that more often than not it's muppets in mildly fast cars rather than actual fast car drivers that drive like idiots. BMW 118d, 120d, Audi 1.9tdi, 2.0tdi and similar VAG group cars for instance. Always driving as hard as they can to convince themselves their 7 to 8sec 0-62 cars are actually sporty.
You may have a point, Audi R8s being the exception, obviously.

But, at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself why do people buy high performance cars if not to drive them faster ? Particularly things like Subarus and tuned up noisy (don`t get me on to that, selfish gits.....) cars. When I was younger and less mature I built a Westfield 2.1 litre, and I can tell you that, generally speaking, if you`ve got a faster car you drive it faster.
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:39
Justin Aerial
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So I saw a few posts re high performance sports car, Audi R8 etc.
Don't want to generalise about all those owners, but of the few I have seen, they seem to be driven (in built up areas) like there's a rocket up their rear end - way over the 30 limit.
My theory is, if you buy one u want to drive it like a sports car.......but you can't - not on a regular road. Infact, other than the status, it's rather pointless......that's not jealously, it's fact. If you want to rag your sports car - go on a track, rest of the time drive normally on the regular roads.
Absolutely right. They share the roads with me and my family so they`ve no soddin` right to increase the danger they put us in.
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:51
Mark.
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Can I add the Dacia Sandero here (great news!)?

The normal model seems to be driven by people who might have gone for a Honda Jazz but wanted something cheaper, and the Stepway version seems to be people who now think they're driving an SUV and therefore own the road.

I encountered both today en route to work.
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:58
Deep Purple
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You may have a point, Audi R8s being the exception, obviously.

But, at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself why do people buy high performance cars if not to drive them faster ? Particularly things like Subarus and tuned up noisy (don`t get me on to that, selfish gits.....) cars. When I was younger and less mature I built a Westfield 2.1 litre, and I can tell you that, generally speaking, if you`ve got a faster car you drive it faster.
Many ordinary cars today are high performance in comparison to years gone by, and considering our speed limits, nearly everything is well capable of exceeding them by a fair bit.

People dont buy German cars to drive fast, they buy them because they are good.

Bad drivers exist across the range, and maybe you should extend your "research" to look at actual bad driving, rather than looking out for German cars that overtake you on the motorway.
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:17
WellHiddenMark
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Nissan Micra
Vauxhall Insignia
Skoda Octavia with a minicab plate
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Old 25-11-2016, 20:34
RobinOfLoxley
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My impression of German car drivers is that many are smug, because it is expensive and Keeping Up With the Jones'. Reliability is next on the list.

Some will shout "Jealousy". Not at all.
Actually, I don't want a car that costs £200 to turn off a spurious dashboard red light, £100 or £200 tyres and a radio that doesn't come as standard but an optional extra at £399.

I have had temporary loans of BMWs and Mercedes and didn't like the driving feel either (Not driven an Audi)
They felt heavy with over powerful engines.Thirsty too.

Just my impressions.
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Old 30-12-2016, 09:51
Justin Aerial
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Originally Posted by Justin Aerial
OK, these are generalisations (apart from the observation about Audi R8 drivers), but, after much observation and research, the worst cars for bad driving are :

All Cars
Cars driven by men
German cars
Audis
Audi R8s

Basically, the further down this list you go, the more likely the car is to be driven badly.

Definition of bad driving : selfish aggressive driving, where the driver is more interested in how fast they get to where they want to go, and less interested in how mush risk they expose others to in order for them to do it.


It's not a generalisation, it's rubbish.
I`ve been doing rather more driving over Christmas and, as normal, most (not all by a long way*) of the worst most aggressive driving, is German cars. Every time I see it I think of DP, and have a little chuckle to myself !

* One exception, on the MI northbound just east of Leeds. A white Kia 4WD is behind me, he pulls out, overtakes me then forces his way intro a barely large enough gap between me and the car in front (technically he was simultaneously cutting me up and tail gating the car in front ! ), then, in less than 100 yards, pulls off at the approaching junction ! Who can explain that.....
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Old 30-12-2016, 10:07
Deep Purple
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So "not by a long way" are all bad drivers driving German cars. Seems you have a problem with German cars, and you are looking for them. Your "research" concluded bad driving was those overtaking you on a motorway, which is nonsense.

Seems this is an excuse to start an argument again.
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Old 30-12-2016, 10:42
RobinOfLoxley
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Alternative, benefit of the doubt view

I think most who make that mistake are just 'making a mistake'

You think you can clear 3 cars and a couple of trucks and the exit is a mile away, and then you realise you can't and it's just half a mile.


Sometimes I find that High-sided vehicles obscure exit signs.

Which can be a problem on unfamiliar dual carriageways and motorways.

But I learned that in my early twenties and slow down and take the inside lane when unsure.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:27
David (2)
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My impression of German car drivers is that many are smug, because it is expensive and Keeping Up With the Jones'. Reliability is next on the list.

Some will shout "Jealousy". Not at all.
Actually, I don't want a car that costs £200 to turn off a spurious dashboard red light, £100 or £200 tyres and a radio that doesn't come as standard but an optional extra at £399.

I have had temporary loans of BMWs and Mercedes and didn't like the driving feel either (Not driven an Audi)
They felt heavy with over powerful engines.Thirsty too.

Just my impressions.
Actually yes, there's something to your post.
Mysterious lights have a habit of coming on reporting a "fault" which isn't a fault at all on these cars.
Many of them do feel heavy, but I actually prefer that. But equally I know people who hate that and want the feeling of a go-cart. But I prefer the feeling of being more planted on the road. I actually owned the last VW polo and now the current one, where VW reduced the weight of the car-I can feel that difference. The new, lighter one does def handle better in the corners, but u can also feel there is less traction because of less weight pushing on the front wheels.

I guess economy depends on the engine type, even petrols have various designs to tweak up economy. I used to get 60mpg from my VW Tdi (manual), but that was quite slow, the range from full was 550miles (best), or 500 (worst). My newer petrol one (auto as well) will do 400miles on a full tank (same size tank).
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