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Old 20-11-2016, 02:14
Kill Jester
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I'm hoping the new Kong movie will be good, with a Doctor Who potential - Tom Hiddleston. He would be a marvellous Doctor!

But as to the current episode - I'm over looking the 4 nuclear bombs line because quite frankly it bores the hell out of me that people are willing to criticise the merits of one frigging line! And as to Super Heroes who can fly in Doctor Who's world - why the hell not! People were saying for years in the show's absence you can do absolutely anything with the show - Comedy, high drama, etc. And here at last is Moffat trying to do exactly that and people are still thinking the show should be only done one way. Maybe there is a reason why there is a Super Hero, who cares. I'm going to watch it on Christmas Eve/Day/Boxing Day or whatever day it's on over Christmas and I will enjoy every minute of it. So there.
I agree. I cannae speak for this forum as I don't know the lay of the land as to what people's opinions are although I've seen a bit of the same thing I have found in the fandom at large with regards to those criticising it. Lets just say there seem to be quite a fair few Goldilocks types about. They seem to have this perfect idea in their head of what the show should be and if its not just right, if it isnt exactly what they want then they will tear it to pieces or at least complain ad-nauseum. You see them all about. One minute they are deriding Moffat for episodes like Heaven Sent and claiming the show is too dark or ponderous or slow and that the kids don't care anymore and its not populist enough. The next thing you know they're complaining that its too silly or childish and just using superheros to jump on the bandwagon. Talk about a rock and a hard place. As I said before if I was to be selfish then I would happily watch 13 Heaven Sents a season but I know that would be no good for the show. So I shall be happy to watch something a bit lighter, with a bit of froth and hope it appeals to a mass audience at Christmas and I know there will be something, whether its just one scene or a line of dialogue or a character that I will LOVE so it will be all fine. To be honest I did not think much of last years episode apart from the last ten minutes which were superb and a strong beginning. I thought it dragged in the middle but many loved it, enjoyed the knockabout fun and I understand that, especially after Clara's extended exit from the show.

I fear this Special will get judged even more harshly than usual because we have had such a dry year with no Doctor Who at all to speak of. I'll take what I'm given and look forward to S10.

Oh and I'm with you on Kong: Skull Island. I know we have all been fooled by good trailers before but this looks brilliant. Some amazing talent in the cast, And it was one of those films I would have said I had zero interest in when I first heard of it. But King Kong with a bit of Apocalypse Now flavour plus Tom Hiddleston, Sam Jackson, John Goodman and John C. Reilly? SOLD. I'm there opening night don't you worry about that!
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Old 20-11-2016, 02:30
Sam_Gee1
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I agree. I cannae speak for this forum as I don't know the lay of the land as to what people's opinions are although I've seen a bit of the same thing I have found in the fandom at large with regards to those criticising it. Lets just say there seem to be quite a fair few Goldilocks types about. They seem to have this perfect idea in their head of what the show should be and if its not just right, if it isnt exactly what they want then they will tear it to pieces or at least complain ad-nauseum. You see them all about. One minute they are deriding Moffat for episodes like Heaven Sent and claiming the show is too dark or ponderous or slow and that the kids don't care anymore and its not populist enough. The next thing you know they're complaining that its too silly or childish and just using superheros to jump on the bandwagon. Talk about a rock and a hard place. As I said before if I was to be selfish then I would happily watch 13 Heaven Sents a season but I know that would be no good for the show. So I shall be happy to watch something a bit lighter, with a bit of froth and hope it appeals to a mass audience at Christmas and I know there will be something, whether its just one scene or a line of dialogue or a character that I will LOVE so it will be all fine. To be honest I did not think much of last years episode apart from the last ten minutes which were superb and a strong beginning. I thought it dragged in the middle but many loved it, enjoyed the knockabout fun and I understand that, especially after Clara's extended exit from the show.

I fear this Special will get judged even more harshly than usual because we have had such a dry year with no Doctor Who at all to speak of. I'll take what I'm given and look forward to S10.

Oh and I'm with you on Kong: Skull Island. I know we have all been fooled by good trailers before but this looks brilliant. Some amazing talent in the cast, And it was one of those films I would have said I had zero interest in when I first heard of it. But King Kong with a bit of Apocalypse Now flavour plus Tom Hiddleston, Sam Jackson, John Goodman and John C. Reilly? SOLD. I'm there opening night don't you worry about that!
I like heaven sent but I see where everyone is coming from. That episode is incredibly dark and graphic for Doctor Who it is I'd say completely off the scale and past the family show audience. However you can have the same problem the other way too, it can be incredibly light but sometimes it takes the mick. So essentially it isn't that it is dark or light in tone season or episodes, but for certain in Heaven Sent it went too far for many viewers.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:22
Brandon_Smith
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Heaven Sent is a Marmite episode depending on what you want out of Doctor Who and what style you like better you'll either love it or hate it. Like me I don't teally enjoy deep, dark monologue and "character psyche" episodes like Heaven Sent because personally I find it boring, I prefer Action and something to happen in the episode like Waters of Mars which I think had the perfect balance of both. Why does the Show have to be overly cheesey when we want a lighter tone or overly dark, why can't we just have the perfect family balance like we used to have back then?

As for the Superhero thing, yes anything can happen in Doctor Who but you have to execute it in a good way or naturally expect backlash, its good to be original but that isn't an excuse for a crap story to back it up. Most people don't wanna set High Expectations incase they may be dissapointed on Christmas Day with the episode, as some have kept on giving Moffat a "chance" only to have a mundane episode at best in their opinion. You can't really blame people that are Skeptical about the whole Superhero thing, its more of a trust issue. I'm nervous too, and so far that clip was average-ish for me had they perhaps released a trailer that would've been better. Well I hope its good Since they've had all the time in the world to work on it this year, but I hope I don't bite my tongue either.

Maybe Chris Chibnall in 2018 can get the balance right again with the multiple new writers that will assist him and the "Writers Room" idea.
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Old 20-11-2016, 16:41
PaperSkin
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Holy cringe worthy cheesiness Batman! I mean Doctor!

Sorry didn't work for me, if this was suppose to make me/someone excited for the episode then for me at least its had the direct opposite effect...

It feels like a joke... and I'm discouraged with having Matt Lucas character back, there is no real reason/call for it (other than the actor wanted to come back) and now we are going to have more Moffat contrived plot mechanics to explain why he's there and not messed up like where he was left... he wasn't a interesting or good character in the first place and had a small and contained role to play in one episode, expanding that out now doesn't seem organic at all, it feels very forced and completely un-necessary.. Can't help but think he's going to be the Jar Jar Binks of Doctor Who for the Xmas ep and next years series..

The production or more specifically the costume design doesn't look good, the Superhero costume looks bad, and takes me straight out of the scenes as I can not take it seriously... its 2016 not the 90's, there are standards and if the production can't pull it off they probably shouldn't go there...

Sorry to be a humbug, wish I did have some positive things to say but DW isn't giving me much of chance to say good things this last year or so.. Reason why I haven't been on here much lately...

Capaldi was good, yes there's something positive, he's always good, I just wish the people making DW would give him good material/production to work with..

Count me on the side of can we just get to Chibnall's era now please... Lets see what that's like...
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Old 20-11-2016, 17:07
wizzywick
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Holy cringe worthy cheesiness Batman! I mean Doctor!

Sorry didn't work for me, if this was suppose to make me/someone excited for the episode then for me at least its had the direct opposite effect...

It feels like a joke... and I'm discouraged with having Matt Lucas character back, there is no real reason/call for it (other than the actor wanted to come back) and now we are going to have more Moffat contrived plot mechanics to explain why he's there and not messed up like where he was left... he wasn't a interesting or good character in the first place and had a small and contained role to play in one episode, expanding that out now doesn't seem organic at all, it feels very forced and completely un-necessary.. Can't help but think he's going to be the Jar Jar Binks of Doctor Who for the Xmas ep and next years series..

The production or more specifically the costume design doesn't look good, the Superhero costume looks bad, and takes me straight out of the scenes as I can not take it seriously... its 2016 not the 90's, there are standards and if the production can't pull it off they probably shouldn't go there...

Sorry to be a humbug, wish I did have some positive things to say but DW isn't giving me much of chance to say good things this last year or so.. Reason why I haven't been on here much lately...

Capaldi was good, yes there's something positive, he's always good, I just wish the people making DW would give him good material/production to work with..

Count me on the side of can we just get to Chibnall's era now please... Lets see what that's like...
Excellent post. I agree 100%. Actually makes me glad that I'm at my brothers this year so will record DW and might or might not watch it this time around. Could it be an Xmas special just for the sake of it?
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Old 20-11-2016, 18:21
Airborae
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Holy cringe worthy cheesiness Batman! I mean Doctor!

Sorry didn't work for me, if this was suppose to make me/someone excited for the episode then for me at least its had the direct opposite effect...

It feels like a joke... and I'm discouraged with having Matt Lucas character back, there is no real reason/call for it (other than the actor wanted to come back) and now we are going to have more Moffat contrived plot mechanics to explain why he's there and not messed up like where he was left... he wasn't a interesting or good character in the first place and had a small and contained role to play in one episode, expanding that out now doesn't seem organic at all, it feels very forced and completely un-necessary.. Can't help but think he's going to be the Jar Jar Binks of Doctor Who for the Xmas ep and next years series..

The production or more specifically the costume design doesn't look good, the Superhero costume looks bad, and takes me straight out of the scenes as I can not take it seriously... its 2016 not the 90's, there are standards and if the production can't pull it off they probably shouldn't go there...

Sorry to be a humbug, wish I did have some positive things to say but DW isn't giving me much of chance to say good things this last year or so.. Reason why I haven't been on here much lately...

Capaldi was good, yes there's something positive, he's always good, I just wish the people making DW would give him good material/production to work with..

Count me on the side of can we just get to Chibnall's era now please... Lets see what that's like...
And you base all this on just a few short minutes of a 60 minute special? Oh dear!
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Old 20-11-2016, 18:47
PaperSkin
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And you base all this on just a few short minutes of a 60 minute special? Oh dear!
Yep, and?

Is the costume suddenly not going to look rubbish... Is the fact that Matt Lucas lame character has been brought back not for story reasons but because the actor asked to and the writer bended to his will because of his star power (that's all in writing)... Is the fact the character is coming back despite where we left him going to be explained in any other way than a throw away convoluted Moffat nonsense excuse as has been the case through out his era with these kind of things, Moffat has given me no reason not to think so.... Is the tone/feel suddenly going to be different, nope, that clip gives us the tone/feel of the episode, your aware how samples work, I can have a little taste of a meal and know if the rest won't or will be to my taste, that was the point of putting this out, If you took a few minutes from last years Xmas episode it would tell you what kind of episode it was (Unless someone lacks the ability to think)... Is Matt Lucas's character suddenly going to be drastically different, nope he'll continue to be like he was, has any character ever really changed under Moffat's writing, nah they all stay the same, so yeah a lame cringe worthy character forced in because the creator wants it despite not really needing to be there aka Jar Jar Binks...

Unless the episode has a drastic change and they surprise us by it suddenly being a dramatic weight-full serious but fun interesting witty well produced/designed sci-fi story (future prediction- that won't happen) I think we can deduce from those few minutes what the episode will be/feel like (a naff cheese fest, that will go for a emotional punch) heck I bet most can deduce what the story will be with the whole SuperHero guy, its obvious, which is a sad thing but DW/Moffat have become predictable in his writing, but his writing has always had repetitive elements starting with the Library two-parter...
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Old 20-11-2016, 19:44
Brandon_Smith
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I Still struggle to understand how Mark Gatiss cried over this script, declaring it "One of the best episodes of all time", Yikes glad hes not the next showrunner.
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Old 20-11-2016, 20:17
Kill Jester
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I Still struggle to understand how Mark Gatiss cried over this script, declaring it "One of the best episodes of all time", Yikes glad hes not the next showrunner.
I would suggest that as someone who has read the entire script from back to front, possibly been at the read through and filming and might even have seen a rough cut he is far more qualified to pass comment on the episode than someone who has seen about 2 minutes.

It's a bit like that kid in English class who would always try and bluff their way through by only reading the summary on the back of the book. They invariably end up looking a little bit silly.
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Old 20-11-2016, 22:44
Brandon_Smith
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I would suggest that as someone who has read the entire script from back to front, possibly been at the read through and filming and might even have seen a rough cut he is far more qualified to pass comment on the episode than someone who has seen about 2 minutes.

It's a bit like that kid in English class who would always try and bluff their way through by only reading the summary on the back of the book. They invariably end up looking a little bit silly.
But you can understand my skepticism can't you?
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Old 20-11-2016, 23:45
Sam_Gee1
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But you can understand my skepticism can't you?
Skeptical sure, but declaring how you can't understand how the script is emotional is a different story.
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Old 20-11-2016, 23:50
joe_000
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Holy cringe worthy cheesiness Batman! I mean Doctor!

Sorry didn't work for me, if this was suppose to make me/someone excited for the episode then for me at least its had the direct opposite effect...

It feels like a joke... and I'm discouraged with having Matt Lucas character back, there is no real reason/call for it (other than the actor wanted to come back) and now we are going to have more Moffat contrived plot mechanics to explain why he's there and not messed up like where he was left... he wasn't a interesting or good character in the first place and had a small and contained role to play in one episode, expanding that out now doesn't seem organic at all, it feels very forced and completely un-necessary.. Can't help but think he's going to be the Jar Jar Binks of Doctor Who for the Xmas ep and next years series..

The production or more specifically the costume design doesn't look good, the Superhero costume looks bad, and takes me straight out of the scenes as I can not take it seriously... its 2016 not the 90's, there are standards and if the production can't pull it off they probably shouldn't go there...

Sorry to be a humbug, wish I did have some positive things to say but DW isn't giving me much of chance to say good things this last year or so.. Reason why I haven't been on here much lately...

Capaldi was good, yes there's something positive, he's always good, I just wish the people making DW would give him good material/production to work with..

Count me on the side of can we just get to Chibnall's era now please... Lets see what that's like...
Couldn't agree more. There are an increasing number of episodes lately that I've only watched once and never been inclined to watch a second time. This clip is not something that would attract me as a casual viewer. Quite the opposite in fact. Wonder if the super hero costume was meant to look so naff.
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Old 21-11-2016, 03:31
Brandon_Smith
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Skeptical sure, but declaring how you can't understand how the script is emotional is a different story.
The whole thing looks like a Christmas Comedy romp-extravaganza, not exactly a sob story is it now? Don't be so melodramatic. Or should I give yet another episode another chance?
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Old 21-11-2016, 03:33
Sam_Gee1
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The whole thing looks like a Christmas Comedy romp-extravaganza, not exactly a sob story is it now? Don't be so melodramatic. Or should I give yet another episode another chance?
Depends the direction they take the story, you have no idea of the plot.
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Old 21-11-2016, 03:38
Brandon_Smith
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Depends the direction they take the story, you have no idea of the plot.
Well I hope there is some VERY good writing, to justify that clip on Christmas Day.
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Old 21-11-2016, 10:41
Airborae
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Well there is one piece of good news. Children In Need 2016 raised over £46 million on the night for projects in Britain that will be a big boost to children everywhere.

I'm sure plenty of those children will be tuning into the Doctor Who Christmas special as well. And children love a superhero!
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Old 21-11-2016, 11:03
Sara_Peplow
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Once e get into December will have a proper trailer and synopsis.
Doctor Who will be one of the first things I set to record as well as Call The Midwife.

Look forward to the bit at the end Coming Soon ..

Get to know Bill and see the Doctor battle David Suchet's Villianous landord in 10.4
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Old 21-11-2016, 13:03
GDK
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I agree. I cannae speak for this forum as I don't know the lay of the land as to what people's opinions are although I've seen a bit of the same thing I have found in the fandom at large with regards to those criticising it. Lets just say there seem to be quite a fair few Goldilocks types about. They seem to have this perfect idea in their head of what the show should be and if its not just right, if it isnt exactly what they want then they will tear it to pieces or at least complain ad-nauseum. You see them all about. One minute they are deriding Moffat for episodes like Heaven Sent and claiming the show is too dark or ponderous or slow and that the kids don't care anymore and its not populist enough. The next thing you know they're complaining that its too silly or childish and just using superheros to jump on the bandwagon. Talk about a rock and a hard place. As I said before if I was to be selfish then I would happily watch 13 Heaven Sents a season but I know that would be no good for the show. So I shall be happy to watch something a bit lighter, with a bit of froth and hope it appeals to a mass audience at Christmas and I know there will be something, whether its just one scene or a line of dialogue or a character that I will LOVE so it will be all fine. To be honest I did not think much of last years episode apart from the last ten minutes which were superb and a strong beginning. I thought it dragged in the middle but many loved it, enjoyed the knockabout fun and I understand that, especially after Clara's extended exit from the show.

I fear this Special will get judged even more harshly than usual because we have had such a dry year with no Doctor Who at all to speak of. I'll take what I'm given and look forward to S10.

Oh and I'm with you on Kong: Skull Island. I know we have all been fooled by good trailers before but this looks brilliant. Some amazing talent in the cast, And it was one of those films I would have said I had zero interest in when I first heard of it. But King Kong with a bit of Apocalypse Now flavour plus Tom Hiddleston, Sam Jackson, John Goodman and John C. Reilly? SOLD. I'm there opening night don't you worry about that!
BIB: 100% agreed. And they claim that SM is the very Devil incarnate and eats babies too!

But seriously, they use whatever comes along (his criticism of Trump as a presidential candidate for example) as a stick to beat him with. I can see fault. I have issues with the writing too from time to time. I am not uncritical. I am not an SM acolyte, but those types go way too far for my tastes. It's unnecessarily unpleasant and unjustified.
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Old 21-11-2016, 13:24
Granny McSmith
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I liked it.

It was funny; and I'd have thought it's fairly obvious that it's not about a superhero.
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Old 21-11-2016, 13:28
Granny McSmith
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there seem to be quite a fair few Goldilocks types about. They seem to have this perfect idea in their head of what the show should be and if its not just right, if it isnt exactly what they want then they will tear it to pieces or at least complain ad-nauseum. You see them all about. One minute they are deriding Moffat for episodes like Heaven Sent and claiming the show is too dark or ponderous or slow and that the kids don't care anymore and its not populist enough. The next thing you know they're complaining that its too silly or childish and just using superheros to jump on the bandwagon.
They're not the same people.....individual posters are fairly consistent about what they like, in my experience.
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Old 21-11-2016, 20:02
Boz_Lowdownl
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BIB: 100% agreed. And they claim that SM is the very Devil incarnate and eats babies too!

But seriously, they use whatever comes along (his criticism of Trump as a presidential candidate for example) as a stick to beat him with. I can see fault. I have issues with the writing too from time to time. I am not uncritical. I am not an SM acolyte, but those types go way too far for my tastes. It's unnecessarily unpleasant and unjustified.
I thought critical comments about other posters were against forum rules? A nonsense argument anyway, the vast majority of anti Moffat posters are against him because of the dire quality of the show he produces, not for any personal reasons. You Moffat acolytes!
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Old 21-11-2016, 20:05
Boz_Lowdownl
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They're not the same people.....individual posters are fairly consistent about what they like, in my experience.
Agreed Granny. Not impressed when a new forum member who only joined this month starts attacking other members.
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Old 21-11-2016, 20:16
Michael_Eve
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Agreed Granny. Not impressed when a new forum member who only joined this month starts attacking other members.
Boz. You are mocking an FM on another recent thread for his/her opinions and have frequently dismissed posters as 'Moffat acolytes' so come on, mate. And it doesn't matter how long people have been here; you don't get a badge or anything after a certain time!
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Old 21-11-2016, 20:37
Lord Smexy
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Boz. You are mocking an FM on another recent thread for his/her opinions and have frequently dismissed posters as 'Moffat acolytes' so come on, mate. And it doesn't matter how long people have been here; you don't get a badge or anything after a certain time!
Ignore him, he does it for the attention.
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Old 21-11-2016, 20:53
Brandon_Smith
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Boz. You are mocking an FM on another recent thread for his/her opinions and have frequently dismissed posters as 'Moffat acolytes' so come on, mate. And it doesn't matter how long people have been here; you don't get a badge or anything after a certain time!
You don't..
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