Couldn't care less, I thought their Charleston was brilliant. They usually have too much slapstick and messing around for me but this was classy and stylish.

I hadn't noticed that with Oti...the bandy one is Karen Clifton..I think she should cover hers up, Danny and Oti do perform very professional looking routines.

No denying that Danny is a fantastic dancer (I'm not going to get into the trained/not trained argument) but his dances just seem to leave me feeling meh. Natalie Gumede was the same.

Pixie for me wasn't so much that her dances left me cold, it was more that I wasn't keen on Trent and Simon Webb was growing on me

There's a very specific definition of what constitiutes a professional ballroom dancer. Various factors are taken into consideration in deciding whether someone has lost their amateur status: Whether they earn money teaching or performing ballroom, whether they have passed their professional teaching exams, whether they have declared themselves professional (e.g. for competitive purposes), although these criteria are not straightforward as there are exceptions. Danny does not fall into this definition. Being professional is also not necessarily indicative of good performance skills although it provides some guide. An amateur ballroom dancer can be as good as a professional.

I don't mind Danny's previous dance experience. Sure, it gives him an advantage in that he will have experience of performing, learning choreography and some generic technical skills. However, as far as Strictly is concerned he plays the game by taking each ballroom and latin dance seriously and trying to learn it rather than just perform showbizzy routes. I guess last night was the most showbizzy he's been. I only get annoyed by experienced dancers who do not respect the dance genres they are learning and treat it as an audition for a career in musicals by jazz handing or wafting their way through.

Ann, I don't believe anyone has said a professional ballroom dancer, but a professional dancer.

So what constitutes a pro in ballroom does not apply to Danny, I don't think anyone is saying he is a pro ballroom/latin dancer, but a professional in the dance world who has earned a living from his dancing and performing, which does apply to him.

That's a reach if ever there was one.

I believe people are talking about pre SCD.

I know. Yet we get the same comments year on year about the various celebrities chosen to participate. Viewers like the variety of skill sets coming into the competition. Those that are good from the start will usually get critiqued more harshly, even if their marks are high. The less able will be critiqued on simpler things such as heel leads and thumbs.

The important criteria for SCD is that they have NOT danced professionally in the Ballroom or Latin genres. -
That is all.

Danny is very lucky to be partnered with Oti and vice versa. They make a good team. Oti must have felt such disappointed in SCD after last year. So I am glad she has a good one this year.

Personally the fact that Louise has been paid to be an expert judge of professional dancers on TV would exclude her, if anything would. Either she wasn't an expert then, or she isn't a beginner now. In comparison the fact that Danny's been in Wicked is pretty small beer. Imo saying Danny's training counts against him more than Louise's is like saying Ore must have had training because he's good. It's just being cross with someone for being better than you want them to be.

Please read my OP a little more carefully😃😃😃

I said very clearly that I did not mean that he was a better dancer than Oti ( your original comment) but his all round experience as a performer in the West End etc compared to Oti's narrower area of experience as a ballroom / Latin dancer.

No I appreciate that. I think what I wanted to say, but didn't was that there are all types of professional dancers, and being a professional in one genre doesn't automatically give a huge advantage or make you a professional in others. Also that the label professional doesn't tell you a lot. It tells you that a person earned a living dancing but not what their standard of dancing was. I think rather than discuss whether a person has a label of 'professional' it is better to discuss their previous dancing experience, full stop.

That's genius!!

That programme had Jo Brand as a Judge too, Lee Mack I remember as well plus numourous others including Lulu - should Lulu have been banned from SCD ?

Perhaps people who don't go to musicals don't realise that the standard of dancing in them is quite basic, certainly nowhere near the level of a professional ballroom dancer. Danny is a polished performer (as are most actors who appear on Strictly) but he does make mistakes and can be quite loose at times in a way that even semi-professional dancers seldom are.

I couldn't care less who and who hasn't had dance training. I enjoy watching good dancers along side those who have a 'journey' like Rinder and Greg.
Danny is a fab dancer and i look forward to watching him every week because he is so good. Funnily enough some of us do watch the show for the dancing.....

Well you sound pretty cross with Louise, I have to say........................ Perhaps I've misread your tone?

This is exactly what I think. There are occasional musicals where the dancing is paramount (42nd Street, A Chorus Line, Saturday Night Fever) but it is mostly basic as you say. They do learn how to sell a number but that is about all.

The trouble is, Strictly is never going to be a completely level playing field. They have to find a range of dancers with a range of aptitudes every year, and as many of them are drawn from the world of showbiz anyway - actors, pop stars, performers in general - you could say these people always have an advantage over the true novices. But then there is personal likeability and effort and that indefinable wow factor as well, so I think all in all it balances out.

When I watch him dance I feel exactly the same as I do when I watch the pro dancers. I appreciate how good he is. I hope he does well out of this and gets lots of dancing work in shows and what not. I just wouldn't vote for him in SCD.

Danny and Oti have the likeability factor. Ed and Katya have that. But what makes Danny stand out is that they have a very nice partnership.

Except that it's not.

I would say that Wicked especially in the first half is very much a 2 person show with both the female characters, to set up exactly how she became " wicked". So to it say mostly it is ensemble dance is really not correct.

I know it's been mentioned but I find it very hard to ignore how Loiuse spent time judging dance on so you think you can dance, giving constructive critism based on her extensive dance training and experience and people are arguing that Danni is the one with dance experience.

It's obvious both have, it's obvious lots of celebs who go on SCD have.

I have never cared , why would I now, except to say I find Loiuse, just to repeat, whose career at one point consisted of judging a dance competition, suprisingly lacking in performance ability. If I were a dancer who had been judged by her, I think I would be gnashing my teeth quite a lot, as it was an elimination contest. If I had been eliminated on lack of performance I would be especially cross.

So if I were to judge both based on their dance experience I think Danni is doing a lot better than Loiuse, who is very neat and placed but never looses herself in the dance, and gives really technically good but performance bland dances.

Whereas Danni can on occasions mess up technically but performance wise delivers. I prefer the later.

I seem to remember that Darcey wasn't as good at ballroom as everyone expected her to be.

This is it in a nutshell. It's like some people can't grasp the concept of just having an inate ability to dance - natural rhythm, timing and musicality - and that good dancing is always 'taught'.
Is there a suggestion, then, that before Danny went to performance school he danced like a pissed uncle at a wedding and, lo and behold. 3 years later he's accomplished enough to get roles in the west end? It just doesn't happen.
Just like it doesn't happen that complete dancing disarsters like Quentin Wilson and Fiona Phillips ( to name just 2 of many ) will make any significant improvement however good their teacher and however long they're being taught.
Some people are just good at dancing. Should they be excluded from SCD just because they may have used that talent earlier in their life?
I hope not. I would definitely stop watching if there wasn't at least one heart-quickening, breathtaking dancer in each series. I would find it dull.

I think you are mixing up 2 programmes.

We are talking about her judging role on So you think you can dance.

Not dance for Sports Releif.

Small point but JR did go to stage school, with his good freind Benedict Cumperbatch.