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Guardian: EU agrees to push UK into Hard Brexit


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Old 20-11-2016, 01:50
KIIS102
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-farage-le-pen

"European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union."

There may not be any negotiations yet but it seems the EU's stance is now hardening as the triggering of Article50 is nearing, The EU president (whoever that is?) already told us it was 'Hard Brexit or no Brexit' and it seems the 27 have now all signed up to this plan of thought too.

The PM surely won't back down on Border Controls (as she's already stated) so it seems very clear what's going to happen.
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Old 20-11-2016, 01:59
MARTYM8
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Let's get on with it then.
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Old 20-11-2016, 02:04
voteout
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Good. The harder the better.
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Old 20-11-2016, 02:07
dodrade
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At least the facade of European unity has been dropped, threats and coercion are the only things keeping the EU together now.
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Old 20-11-2016, 02:16
Eurostar
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Slightly misleading headline : they're saying they would push Britain into a hard Brexit *if* the UK refuses to obey the rules of the Single Market or accept freedom of movement (the exact same rules the other 27 members, plus four others are already obeying).
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Old 20-11-2016, 02:38
jonner101
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Let's believe it when we see the actual negotiations.

I think one heck of a lot of new surprises are in store in the coming years.
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Old 20-11-2016, 02:47
gocompletelynut
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Surely this is the best news we've had all month.

Thank you Europe, take that Trevgo, aurichie and all you remainers.
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Old 20-11-2016, 02:50
voteout
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Surely this is the best news we've had all month.

Thank you Europe, take that Trevgo, aurichie and all you remainers.
Some remainers are looking forward to the day you get what you want.
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Old 20-11-2016, 03:19
rusty123
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There's some interesting elections coming up in some European countries and depending on how things go there might not be much of an EU left in two and a bit years.

Italy is having a referendum on something in the next couple of weeks that could see the govt being defeated and the far right one step closer to taking power.

Other countries are closing their borders and saying enough is enough so FOM and Schengen is coming under considerable and increasing pressure from within.

It might turn into us jumping as opposed to being pushed. It might force changes that could even have lead to a different referendum result. Who knows?

Anyone trying to predict anything at the moment might as well take a long holiday

Salt
Pinch
Take
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Old 20-11-2016, 03:26
burneside
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Slightly misleading headline : they're saying they would push Britain into a hard Brexit *if* the UK refuses to obey the rules of the Single Market or accept freedom of movement (the exact same rules the other 27 members, plus four others are already obeying).
If we accepted all those rules then the Brexit vote would be negated. There is no "soft" Brexit option.
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Old 20-11-2016, 03:28
Rich Tea.
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Most people who voted to leave the EU knew perfectly well what they were voting for - cutting ALL ties with the EU bureaucracy. So let's get on with it and this so called hard Brexit. Quite why it should intimidate other European electorates into stifling their own discontent over the EU I'm not sure. Once these forces are unleashed they will not simply go back in the box and I'm sure none of our fellow Europeans will wish to be threatened into submission by this EU monolith. The EU is decaying slowly before our very eyes. The very fact that the EU think that the UK needs to be taught a lesson for daring to leave in order to keep the other nations in line just proves why the whole structure needs to go.
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Old 20-11-2016, 06:40
fefster
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The EU are quite right to say this. It's called taking a hard opening stance.
Where is the stiff upper lip and resolve in this country? All I hear is lily-livered fear mongering.
Commerce always wins. The EU will cave. No doubt about it.
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Old 20-11-2016, 06:42
fefster
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This is why the whole Parliament debate is pointless. Nothing can be decided until negotiations start because there are two sides. Negotiation can't start until Article triggered,
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Old 20-11-2016, 07:15
zounds
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The EU are quite right to say this. It's called taking a hard opening stance.
And that's exactly why May HAS to say we're going for hard Brexit. Why does no one seem to understand this?

Anything else will weaken our position from the outset.
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Old 20-11-2016, 07:16
Miasima Goria
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The UK Govt is doing such a good job it has managed to unite a generally fractious EU. How the heck did May manage to lose Poland and Ireland - the two countries with the most to lose from a hard Brexit?

Seems like the EU27 wants the UK out quickly, the UK will happily oblige. I wonder if Farage will manage to get a holiday visa to EU countries after all this.
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Old 20-11-2016, 07:26
Andrew1954
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....... And this is the political union Remainers still want us to be a member of!
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Old 20-11-2016, 07:44
Miasima Goria
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....... And this is the political union Remainers still want us to be a member of!
With Trump to the west and Putin to the east? Yes. The EU's desire for self preservation has kicked in. Farage, Johnson and the UK press like us to believe that current European politicians are little different from the characters in boys war comics.

With Farage saying he may export his tricks to France, oddly enough the PTB are worried.

Add in the rise of the far right in Germany, a host of crises than need a unified front and the UK vetoing plans for after it leaves, this was always a possibility.

I'm offering my EU passport - er hand in marriage for the right price.
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Old 20-11-2016, 07:46
zounds
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The UK Govt is doing such a good job it has managed to unite a generally fractious EU. How the heck did May manage to lose Poland and Ireland - the two countries with the most to lose from a hard Brexit?
It's the obvious starting point for all to agree, the EU don't want to start negotiations arguing amongst themselves before they even know what we want!

The hard part will come when talks start and half the EU agree and half don't.
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:12
jjwales
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....... And this is the political union Remainers still want us to be a member of!
Do we? I don't. I wish we would just get on with Brexit now.
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:16
Aristaeus
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Good. The harder the better.
A hard Brexit would mean the end of financial passporting and hence decimate London's financial hub - which accounts for around 20% of our GDP.
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:19
jjwales
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If we accepted all those rules then the Brexit vote would be negated. There is no "soft" Brexit option.
Well yes, there is. As long as we leave the EU, the Brexit vote is being respected, even if we sign up to the single market and freedom of movement as outsiders, though I don't expect that to happen.

We did not vote to cut all ties with the EU, merely to stop being a member.
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:21
Aristaeus
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....... And this is the political union Remainers still want us to be a member of!
I don't get your point. Why wouldn't the EU do what is best for the EU? Britain has made it clear we don't care about the EU, so why criticise the EU for not being prepared to damage their organisation to help Britain out?
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:37
Miasima Goria
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It's the obvious starting point for all to agree, the EU don't want to start negotiations arguing amongst themselves before they even know what we want!

The hard part will come when talks start and half the EU agree and half don't.
BIB The red lines drawn by May and the pronouncements made by Johnson have scuppered a lot of negotiations. And a lot of EU and European politicos have said talks will be about how to leave, not necessarily about making a lasting deal. And quite a few UK politicians will not accept any connection with the EU.

The article highlights the doublespeak by Johnson on Turkey, the Irish Govt has leaked about how they found UK Brexit ministers unreliable. Witness the ressurected border dispute which had not been brought up in border talks with Ireland the week before.

Look at Fox, Johnson and Davies - they are not up for negotiating anything. The EU is probably just cutting its losses. Why spend two years talking when after a change of Govt the UK might not keep to the deal anyway?
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:38
i4u
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-farage-le-pen

"European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union."

The PM surely won't back down on Border Controls (as she's already stated) so it seems very clear what's going to happen.
Do we know what she means by 'Border Controls' it's not as though people don't need a passport...

At the time of publication, European nationals had to show their IDs when entering or exiting the United Kingdom, Ireland, Cyprus, Bulgaria or Romania.
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:38
gocompletelynut
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A hard Brexit would mean the end of financial passporting and hence decimate London's financial hub - which accounts for around 20% of our GDP.
We know that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had this debate before the referendum remember.

All the warnings, all the scares and we still voted out.

That decision must be respected, lets get the hell on with it, geez.
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