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Guardian: EU agrees to push UK into Hard Brexit


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Old 21-11-2016, 08:39
allaorta
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If you are talking about my post, then the government can push through any promise in its manifesto and if one of those promises is to strike down the high court ruling and restore treaty making and breaking as an executive function including the triggering of A50, then they can do it without any challenge from the HoL.

That's the way election promises works.
Thanks for clarifying, I gave up trying.
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Old 21-11-2016, 08:43
allaorta
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Whereas for everyone else "enough majority" would suggest the election majority, given that the previous sentence effectively says "Of course it would give them a mandate [ to enact Article 50 "without Parliament being involved."]

That's why I quoted the post you were replying to.
The Conservatives have a majority now but it's too thin to be sure of taking a bill through. That was the context of going for a general election to increase their majority in Parliament. Mind you, they might well struggle now Blair says he may throw his hat into the ring...
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Old 21-11-2016, 08:52
allaorta
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But there's not anywhere near a majority let alone a vast majority of tory MP's in the commons who supported Brexit let alone the sort of hard Brexit that only a small minority of voters who voted to leave the EU are so desperate to see.

Even a bigger tory majority in the commons as a result of a snap general election would be no guarantee of article 50 being passed after a commons vote. There could be even more Bremainer tory MP's elected to the commons in a snap general election.
The whole idea of including a "get out of the EU" statement in a manifesto is an attempt to ensure Tory MPs vote for what's put in front of them. And much of the local Tory associations favour Brexit and would drop a candidate who didn't conform.

The BIB is your conjecture, nothing more.
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Old 21-11-2016, 09:20
trevgo
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I love all this Wizard of Oz posturing by the know-nothing Brexiters. Sitting behind their computer screens with their stiff upper lips, and begging for the hardest of Brexits as quickly as possible. Like a road rage driver ranting and threatening, but with his windows closed and doors locked.

A hard Brexit will be devastating for this country's economy, so they will be very foolish indeed not to have a bolthole to hide in when it happens. The unemployed will not be in any mood to forgive and forget,
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Old 21-11-2016, 11:23
Steve_Holmes
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I love all this Wizard of Oz posturing by the know-nothing Brexiters. Sitting behind their computer screens with their stiff upper lips, and begging for the hardest of Brexits as quickly as possible. Like a road rage driver ranting and threatening, but with his windows closed and doors locked.

A hard Brexit will be devastating for this country's economy,
so they will be very foolish indeed not to have a bolthole to hide in when it happens. The unemployed will not be in any mood to forgive and forget,
Lol - yet another 'Wizard of Oz' prophesy - from Wonder Man - the Wizard Master himself !! How is it that the majority of countries manage to survive without being in the EU? ---surely that must be considered the 'eighth wonder' of the world!!
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Old 21-11-2016, 11:32
NilSatisOptimum
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I love all this Wizard of Oz posturing by the know-nothing Brexiters. Sitting behind their computer screens with their stiff upper lips, and begging for the hardest of Brexits as quickly as possible. Like a road rage driver ranting and threatening, but with his windows closed and doors locked.

A hard Brexit will be devastating for this country's economy, so they will be very foolish indeed not to have a bolthole to hide in when it happens. The unemployed will not be in any mood to forgive and forget,

Brilliant parody it fits perfectly particularly the yellow brick road scene, May as Judy Garland skipping down the whirly road, all the munchkin's being Brexiteers....
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:08
FusionFury
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The divide is making it hard for us to get a good deal

If remainers are truly British they would accept the result and want us to get the best deal
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:11
jjwales
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The divide is making it hard for us to get a good deal
In what way?

If remainers are truly British they would accept the result and want us to get the best deal
I expect most of them do.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:12
CSJB
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Brilliant parody it fits perfectly particularly the yellow brick road scene, May as Judy Garland skipping down the whirly road, all the munchkin's being Brexiteers....
Are the remainers Dorothy's traveling companions, who are desperately seeking a brain, a heart and some courage ?
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:14
Cheetah666
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Are the remainers Dorothy's traveling companions, who are desperately seeking a brain, a heart and some courage ?
No, the travelling companions are Liam Fox, David Davis and Boris Johnson.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:34
Landis
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Are the remainers Dorothy's traveling companions, who are desperately seeking a brain, a heart and some courage ?
We need to return the thread to something a little closer to factual.
On Wednesday, Philip Hammond is going to tell you that you have voted to make yourself poorer.

Philip Hammond is a decent and reasonable man.
A careful man.
He is not even going to come close to saying that Brexiteers are Thick or Stupid.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:42
John146
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[quote=andykn;84631971]What did he actually say?[/QUOTE]


This:
http://heatst.com/world/eu-chief-jea...xit-deserters/
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:50
Parker45
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Lol - yet another 'Wizard of Oz' prophesy - from Wonder Man - the Wizard Master himself !! How is it that the majority of countries manage to survive without being in the EU? ---surely that must be considered the 'eighth wonder' of the world!!
Probably because they are not located in Europe and find it more sensible to trade with their closest neighbours.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:51
andykn
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Are the remainers Dorothy's traveling companions, who are desperately seeking a brain, a heart and some courage ?
No, all I'm seeking is for one of the many Brexiters who says we'll be better off in the long run to be able to explain how, beyond getting blue passports back.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:54
Parker45
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The divide is making it hard for us to get a good deal

If remainers are truly British they would accept the result and want us to get the best deal
The truly British don't want us to become a basket case economy, which could be the result of voting to leave the EU, where we have done very well over the past 40 years.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:56
andykn
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The Conservatives have a majority now but it's too thin to be sure of taking a bill through. That was the context of going for a general election to increase their majority in Parliament. Mind you, they might well struggle now Blair says he may throw his hat into the ring...
If Labour stood on a platform of soft Brexit then the Tories may well lose.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:58
jjwales
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If Labour stood on a platform of soft Brexit then the Tories may well lose.
A platform made of soft Brexit? Sounds a bit dodgy for anyone to stand on!
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:59
John146
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A platform made of soft Brexit? Sounds a bit dodgy for anyone to stand on!
Oohher I can feel a risk assessment coming on
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Old 21-11-2016, 13:10
andykn
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Lol - yet another 'Wizard of Oz' prophesy - from Wonder Man - the Wizard Master himself !! How is it that the majority of countries manage to survive without being in the EU? ---surely that must be considered the 'eighth wonder' of the world!!
I don't want to "survive" like the "majority of countries" do. I want to prosper and be the world's 5th largest economy, not just some "surviving" also ran.
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Old 21-11-2016, 13:11
andykn
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The divide is making it hard for us to get a good deal

If remainers are truly British they would accept the result and want us to get the best deal
No, what's making it hard for us to get a good deal is the Brexit expectation of having our cake and eating it, the thought we can get the benefits with none of the commitments,
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Old 21-11-2016, 13:12
MargMck
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A platform made of soft Brexit? Sounds a bit dodgy for anyone to stand on!
Oohher I can feel a risk assessment coming on
Then you had better gen up on BS EN 1176/77 playground equipment requirements because Corbyn on Brexit is going to require a seesaw.
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Old 21-11-2016, 13:22
trevgo
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Oohher I can feel a risk assessment coming on


Especially if it's Tom Watson.

Contrary to what the usual mob believe, fighting an election on soft Brexit would be a very good strategy. Wouldn't compensate for the prospect of PM Corbyn, however.
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Old 21-11-2016, 14:53
Steve_Holmes
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I don't want to "survive" like the "majority of countries" do. I want to prosper and be the world's 5th largest economy, not just some "surviving" also ran.
Really? Then you should wish to get out of the 'declining' EU - whose share of the global economy has been declining for decades now. The UK has achieved its economic status despite its EU membership - not because of it. A political union does not provide any basis whatsoever for improving a country's economic welfare - unless it is one of the poorer members of the soviet bloc, in receipt of subsidies of course.
It is EU membership, and in particular, the ridiculous premature adoption of the common currency that has ruined Greece, Spain, Portugal etc....albeit, those East European countries are now quids in!!
Most of those 'surviving' economies are far healthier than the EU 'sad' cases.

Why do you consider it necessary to belong to a Political Union to enjoy economic improvement???

Trade is the key - and outside of the EU, the UK will be able to make trade deals to suit our own specific requirements.

Incidentally - Brexit means LEAVING THE EU - which by definition, means getting out of the Single Market. The ensuing basis of trade has yet to be negotiated and agreed.

It is very unlikely to result in tariff free access - but it could result in better than MFN tariffs............but nobody knows at this point in time - and that includes all you doom-mongers.......and we do KNOW that the basis of trade will at LEAST be based on the globally common form of trade - with the potential for the UK to agree tariff - free trade with far more countries than the 'other 27' - such as the 52 other Commonwealth countries for instance....
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Old 21-11-2016, 14:56
Steve_Holmes
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No, what's making it hard for us to get a good deal is the Brexit expectation of having our cake and eating it, the thought we can get the benefits with none of the commitments,
Pure nonsense - it isn't a matter of 'having our cake and eating it' - subsidising the EU merely to be allowed mutual tariff free trade with them is no cake at all!
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Old 21-11-2016, 15:06
trevgo
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It is very unlikely to result in tariff free access - but it could result in better than MFN tariffs............but nobody knows at this point in time - and that includes all you doom-mongers.......and we do KNOW that the basis of trade will at LEAST be based on the globally common form of trade - with the potential for the UK to agree tariff - free trade with far more countries than the 'other 27' - such as the 52 other Commonwealth countries for instance....
Have a read of this, which reveals what a fantasy believing that the Commonwealth can anyway replace the EU trade is.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...ace-in-both--2

I don't know why you keep repeating the lie that leaving the EU means leaving the single market. That is plainly untrue. Not that truth ever played any role in Brexit Land.
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